SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 512345>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: The next step: Going after Democratic voters< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2011, 1:28 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So it looks the GOP is going for the kill.  Take out the unions then in anticipation
that the majority of Americans will be against your anti-union measures as well
as other policies that hurt the working and middle class do two things

A) Make sure you get tons of money from wealthy contributors(like Koch),corps and lobbyists
that don't represent many people other than the wealthy and use that money to spend on nasty
deceitful ads hoping it will deceive enough to make up for your unpopular positions

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117699163.html?page=1

B) Under the pretext of the very common(but phoney) right-wing GOP narrative of
"voter fraud" pass legislation that makes it more difficult for Democratic constitutes
to vote.  So for example



Boosted by major electoral gains in state legislatures nationwide in the 2010 campaign, Republican lawmakers in 32 states are pushing measures that would require citizens to show a state identification or proof of citizenship to vote.  Meanwhile, in New Hampshire, GOP lawmakers are proposing new limits on college students who vote in the state, potentially eliminating a key base of electoral support for Democrats in the state ahead of the upcoming presidential election.


http://news.yahoo.com/s....-rights

and


"In its current state, this bill is the most restrictive voter ID legislation in the nation," Coggs said in a release commemorating passage of the 15th Amendment, which guaranteed voting rights regardless of race. "It will disproportionately impact people of color, students and the elderly."


http://politifact.com/wiscons....give-wi


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2011, 1:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a conservative organization linked to corporate and right-wing donors, including the billionaire Koch brothers, has drafted and distributed model legislation, obtained by Campus Progress, that appears to be the inspiration for bills proposed by state legislators this year and promoted by Tea Party activists, bills that would limit access of young people to vote.

ALEC describes itself as a “nonpartisan membership association for conservative state lawmakers who shared a common belief in limited government, free markets, federalism, and individual liberty.”

In Wisconsin, where public attention now is focused on Gov. Scott Walker’s ® efforts to undermine the rights of workers to engage in collective bargaining, there is another piece of proposed legislation that could have a substantial negative impact on the state’s young and minority voters. Conservative representatives in the state have proposed a law, backed by Walker, that would ban students from using in-state university- or college-issued IDs for proof-of-residency when voting. If this legislation became law, it would become one of the strictest voter registration laws in the country and would provide significant logistical and financial barriers for a variety of groups, including student and minority voters.

Meanwhile, as Campus Progress reported last month, in New Hampshire, state House Speaker William O’Brien (R- Hillsborough 4) says that proposed election legislation will “tighten up the definition of a New Hampshire resident.” O’Brien claims that college towns experience hundreds of same-day voter registrations and that those are the ballots of people who “are kids voting liberal, voting their feelings, with no life experience.”

Unfortunately, the examples in Wisconsin and New Hampshire are not isolated incidents. They are part of a disturbing trend of states with new conservative majorities that are attempting to pass laws that would disenfranchise student and minority voters. Some of the legislation is strikingly similar to model legislation drafted by ALEC


http://campusprogress.org/article....anchise


New Hampshire's new Republican state House speaker is pretty clear about what he thinks of college kids and how they vote. They're "foolish," Speaker William O'Brien said in a recent speech to a tea party group.

"Voting as a liberal. That's what kids do," he added, his comments taped by a state Democratic Party staffer and posted on YouTube. Students lack "life experience," and "they just vote their feelings."

New Hampshire House Republicans are pushing for new laws that would prohibit many college students from voting in the state - and effectively keep some from voting at all.

One bill would permit students to vote in their college towns only if they or their parents had previously established permanent residency there - requiring all others to vote in the states or other New Hampshire towns they come from. Another bill would end Election Day registration, which O'Brien said unleashes swarms of students on polling places, creating opportunities for fraud.

The measures in New Hampshire are among dozens of voting-related bills being pushed by newly empowered Republican state lawmakers across the country - prompting partisan clashes akin to those already roiling in some states over GOP moves to curb union power


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....62.html


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2011, 1:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In texas we had this absurd example


AUSTIN — With a strong push from Republicans and over the vigorous objections of Democrats, the Senate on Wednesday approved legislation requiring all but elderly Texans to show a photo ID before voting.

Most of the proposed amendments to the bill — offered by Democrats — were rejected during several hours of debate Wednesday, but one change found bipartisan support. That added a state concealed handgun license to the list of photo IDs that would meet the requirement of the legislation.

In the end, the measure was approved 19-11, with all Republicans backing it and all but one absent Democrat voting no.


http://www.dallasnews.com/news....ill.ece

granted the absurd exemptions were apparently voted across party lines.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 12 2011, 1:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

But yes I know. Both sides do it equally and that I just can't see it because I'm a
blind partisan hack. If you don't believe that just ask MR Blind "both sides do it equally"
Platitude promulgator and you can trust anything he says because he is so unbiased.
We know that MR Blind "both sides do it equally" Platitude promulgator is so unbiased
because he always says both sides do it(How could MR Blind "both sides do it equally"
Platitude promulgator possibly be unbiased when he constantly says both sides do it?
See that proves MR Blind "both sides do it equally" Platitude promulgator is unbiased.
You can always trust what he says. He has no axe to grind)


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3517
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2011, 10:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I actually haven't heard what's going on with the Voter I D Bill here in Wisconsin lately... I do know that the first draft of it was so blatantly unconstitutional that even they knew it would never stand up, and they scrapped it.

Aside from disenfranchising minorities, requiring a valid ID would also take quite a few of the poor out of the voter pool as well.
If you don't have one, a State ID card costs $28. Not to mention the cost of the documents you'd need to get that ID if you don't already have them.  A birth certificate costs another $20.  And here's where it gets fun... you need an ID to get a copy. And then if you weren't born in that county you can add the processing time or travel cost to the whole equation.
Sound like a lot of hoops to jump through just to exercise what should be your right?


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
kykcamper Search for posts by this member.
^ that stands for kayak
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3511
Joined: Jan. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2011, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm waiting for the moment that they start cutting things from the elderly. AARP will make that known, and the republican party will lose the collective votes of senior citizens. That will hurt them a lot.

--------------
Psylocide - "Well... on one side you have uneducated red necks and on the other you have pseudo-intelligent hippy liberal douches."
Paulbrown - "a deck of cards is heavier than many admit, will you really use them? consider replacing with a plastic bottle filled with booze."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3517
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 13 2011, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wait no longer. Take your pick...

http://www.google.com/search?....id+cuts

http://www.google.com/search?....re+cuts


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
walkngawk Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Sep. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2011, 12:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The simplest solution would be to tatoo all "legal" voters with an ID number.

I think the most appropriate tatoo wouldb be a 999 on the back of your left hand: symbolizing you are 99.9% American.

Of course there is a flip side to this...


--------------
Contentment comes from moderation in all things: But, don’t overdue that either.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
Chuck D Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7931
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2011, 2:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(kykcamper @ Mar. 13 2011, 11:13 pm)
QUOTE
I'm waiting for the moment that they start cutting things from the elderly. AARP will make that known, and the republican party will lose the collective votes of senior citizens. That will hurt them a lot.

Like this:

http://money.cnn.com/2011....pt=Sbin


--------------
Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Squaretop Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1303
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2011, 3:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In Chicago its no joke to "vote early and often".

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask somebody to prove who they say they are.  We just need to make it easier to obtain said documentation.  If we can pass out cell phones to the underprivileged I think we can figure out a way to get them a state ID at reduced or no cost.


--------------
You can't buy time or memories.
"How'd I get involved".
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 14 2011, 4:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

walkngawk said
QUOTE

The simplest solution would be to tatoo all "legal" voters with an ID number.

I think the most appropriate tatoo wouldb be a 999 on the back of your left hand: symbolizing you are 99.9% American.

Of course there is a flip side to this...


999. LOL!! You think there might be a flip side to this? Really?

Of course in all seriousness we don't have a voter fraud(election fraud I think is a more
serious problem) problem in our country. As I said "voter fraud" is a largely very very
rare and phony issued used by right-wing republicans to justify using various measures to
minimize Democratic turnout as much as possible such as illegal vote caging.

But having said that from time to time there are real acts of voter fraud such as
(for example) the Indiana Republican Secretary Of State being indicted on voter fraud

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011....aud.php

or this Republican aid to North Carolina aid Patrick McHenry pleading guilty to voter
fraud

http://www.interstateq.com/archives/2266/


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 1:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bump

and it still continues

QUOTE

On Thursday, the House State Affairs Committee will take up legislation, HB 1355, drafted by the office of House Speaker Dean Cannon and introduced into committee by Rep. Dennis Baxley, that’s supposed to strengthen Florida’s election laws. In fact, the 128-page bill would undo some of the sensible reforms imposed after the 2000 election debacle and adds a plethora of requirements that would tie the hands of independently elected elections supervisors, disenfranchise voters, dissuade volunteers from engaging in voter registration and discourage many voters’ participation on Election Day.

Among the bill’s onerous requirements:

     
     
     • A newly married woman wanting to vote on Election Day would no longer be allowed to show elections officials at the polls documentation with her name change to vote on that day. Instead, she would be forced to use a provisional ballot, which likely will mean that vote won’t be counted. In 2008, half the provisional ballots in Florida were thrown out, making it hard to contest.
     

     
     Voter-registration groups would have to register all their volunteers and paid staff with the state’s Division of Supervisors of Elections, which would create a database. What’s the purpose? Harassment of volunteers or particular organizations?

     • Volunteers, who now can help resolve legal issues for individual voters at the polls, would be restricted because the bill lumps “legal advice” into the definition of solicitation and prohibits it within 100 feet of a voting line.

     • Any voter who has moved and shows up at a polling site with evidence of the new address would also be forced to use a provisional ballot even though county elections supervisors now have access to a statewide voter database, created back in 2003, that can easily confirm a voter’s change of name or address. This would potentially disenfranchise thousands of college students.
     

     
This bill reeks of partisanship. Why?

One theory: Mr. Cannon wants to limit students’ participation in the voting process — as volunteers and as voters. That may be because his district includes the University of Central Florida, and College Democrats at UCF registered almost 11,000 voters in 2008 when Barack Obama won Florida.

The legislation also potentially would restrict the ability of news media and bloggers to take video or audio of voters at polling places, whether during early voting days or on the final Election Day.


http://www.miamiherald.com/2011....nt.html


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3517
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 8:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is what disenfranchisement looks like,

http://www.dailykos.com/story....pdated)


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
BrianSnat Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 735
Joined: Dec. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 8:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Mar. 14 2011, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE
walkngawk said
QUOTE

The simplest solution would be to tatoo all "legal" voters with an ID number.

I think the most appropriate tatoo wouldb be a 999 on the back of your left hand: symbolizing you are 99.9% American.

Of course there is a flip side to this...


999. LOL!! You think there might be a flip side to this? Really?

Of course in all seriousness we don't have a voter fraud(election fraud I think is a more
serious problem) problem in our country. As I said "voter fraud" is a largely very very
rare and phony issued used by right-wing republicans to justify using various measures to
minimize Democratic turnout as much as possible such as illegal vote caging.

But having said that from time to time there are real acts of voter fraud such as
(for example) the Indiana Republican Secretary Of State being indicted on voter fraud

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011....aud.php

or this Republican aid to North Carolina aid Patrick McHenry pleading guilty to voter
fraud

http://www.interstateq.com/archives/2266/

You forgot a few...

Like this one

and this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

I could go on but my cut and past finger is getting tired.


--------------
“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." - Helen Keller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 15
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 9:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What is wrong with requireing a State ID to vote? I'm fairly sure it is required to apply for WIC. Also, a fee waiver for an ID for underprivlaged people seems like an acceptable soultion to the complaints.

--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
mocamper1 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2012
Joined: Aug. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Mar. 14 2011, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE
999. LOL!! You think there might be a flip side to this? Really?

Duh! 666 is the Mark of the Beast.  That is the flip side, Dennise.


--------------
"It's time to be immortal 'cause heroes never die!"
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
Chuck D Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7931
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BrianSnat @ Apr. 20 2011, 8:39 am)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Mar. 14 2011, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE
walkngawk said
QUOTE

The simplest solution would be to tatoo all "legal" voters with an ID number.

I think the most appropriate tatoo wouldb be a 999 on the back of your left hand: symbolizing you are 99.9% American.

Of course there is a flip side to this...


999. LOL!! You think there might be a flip side to this? Really?

Of course in all seriousness we don't have a voter fraud(election fraud I think is a more
serious problem) problem in our country. As I said "voter fraud" is a largely very very
rare and phony issued used by right-wing republicans to justify using various measures to
minimize Democratic turnout as much as possible such as illegal vote caging.

But having said that from time to time there are real acts of voter fraud such as
(for example) the Indiana Republican Secretary Of State being indicted on voter fraud

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011....aud.php

or this Republican aid to North Carolina aid Patrick McHenry pleading guilty to voter
fraud

http://www.interstateq.com/archives/2266/

You forgot a few...

Like this one

and this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

or this one

I could go on but my cut and past finger is getting tired.

Explain to me  how requiring voter ID will prevent most if not all your links from happening?

Not one of them is about someone casting an illegal ballot. They are all about election worker, voter registration, and politicals violating election laws.


--------------
Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 12:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Chuck D  said
QUOTE

Explain to me  how requiring voter ID will prevent most if not all your links from happening?

Not one of them is about someone casting an illegal ballot. They are all about election worker, voter registration, and politicals violating election laws.



^^^ Bingo!!!

+1

You beat me to it

actually very few of BrianSnat's so called examples(if any) show examples of someone found
guilty of actual voter fraud.  Some his examples say alleged or indictments rather than
anything about being found "guilty". Some of the other examples say "voter fraud" but are
actually "voter registration fraud"(which is something totally different than "voter fraud")
like in the acorn example.  Several other examples where they say "voter fraud" but were
actually something else like election fraud which is something different than Voter fraud..etc.
By voter fraud I mean something like actually voting more than once or voting under another
name, etc......

Those kind of acts these various pieces of legislation Republicans are pushing are supposed
to stop (they aren't designed to stop election fraud for example) are very rare.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 12:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

kyle2193 said
QUOTE

What is wrong with requireing a State ID to vote? I'm fairly sure it is required to apply for WIC. Also, a fee waiver for an ID for underprivlaged people seems like an acceptable soultion to the complaints.


I don't know if I would necessarily say its wrong as it tells you what is motivating these
types of legislation(politics since the type of voter fraud this type of legislation is
supposed to stop are very rare). On the other hand there is this point from the Brennan
center.



In this legislative session, at least 37 states are considering or have considered voter
ID and/or proof of citizenship legislation. Those states are: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona,
Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New
Hampshire, New Mexico, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania,
Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and
Wisconsin.

Most states in which a voter ID or proof of citizenship bill is currently pending already
have some form of voter ID requirements in place; the bills described below would simply
make existing proof of identity or citizenship requirements more restrictive.


Voter ID and proof of citizenship bills are frequently presented as non-partisan measures
to improve the integrity of the statewide election systems across the country. Support for
voter ID legislation, however, has tended to split along party lines. Republican governors
and Republican-controlled legislatures are typically much more likely to pass proposed voter
ID legislation. Where there is Democratic control in a legislature, passage of legislation
supporting additional burdens on access to the polls is typically unlikely. Democratic
governors, however, vary in their support for or rejection of voter ID legislation.



http://brennan.3cdn.net/9a0bce4c3f9951882a_3lm6bnl5c.pdf


mocamper1 said
QUOTE


I said
QUOTE

999. LOL!! You think there might be a flip side to this? Really?

Of course in all seriousness we don't have a voter fraud(election fraud I think is a more
serious problem) problem in our country


Duh! 666 is the Mark of the Beast.  That is the flip side, Dennise.


Duh!? Hey genius? Why did I say "LOL!!" followed by 'in all seriousness'?

BTW What with the "Dennise" and not "Dennis"?


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 5:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 20 2011, 12:18 pm)
QUOTE
I don't know if I would necessarily say its wrong as it tells you what is motivating these
types of legislation(politics since the type of voter fraud this type of legislation is
supposed to stop are very rare). On the other hand there is this point from the Brennan
center.

If you wouldn't go as far as to say it is wrong and it could stop voter fraud, albeit rare, then what is the problem with requiring governmnent IDs?

--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 9:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

kyle2193 said
QUOTE

If you wouldn't go as far as to say it is wrong and it could stop voter fraud, albeit rare, then what is the problem with requiring governmnent IDs?


Speaking of misrepresentation No I said I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say
its wrong not that I "wouldn't go as far as to say it is wrong "

A part of what I highlighted was the part that said already have some form of voter ID
requirements in place; the bills described below would simply make existing proof of
identity or citizenship requirements more restrictive.
.

So the point is that it it could potentially be wrong if the proof of identification gets
so restrictive that it makes it difficult for some to actually vote who are US citizens
like for example proposed laws designed to prevent as many young people as possible to
vote like the example I cited above in post 2:that would ban students from using in-state
university- or college-issued IDs for proof-of-residency when voting. If this legislation
became law, it would become one of the strictest voter registration laws in the country and
would provide significant logistical and financial barriers for a variety of groups,
including student and minority voters.
.

Proposed laws like that are meant to stop voter fraud. They are meant to prevent as many
voters as possible who the designers of the law think will more likely be Democratic. In
fact I also cited a Republican who cited a similar law in New Hampshire who he justified
the proposed law not on grounds of stopping voter fraud but because “kids voting liberal,
voting their feelings, with no life experience.”.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3517
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 20 2011, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I thought you guys were against spending? You do realize this will cost millions. (I believe I heard $60 million) In our past election there were 18 instances of voter fraud statewide and I believe all of them were felons voting. Having an ID will do nothing to prevent that. Nothing. And 18, out of how many? Big whoop. They were later caught.
This is exactly what it looks like it is, a means to keep people from voting. Period.

"Proponents of this measure exaggerate the instances of illegal votes cast in Wisconsin, the group says. For instance, according to the Brennan Center for Justice report on the considerable effort and resources spent to prosecute fraudulent voters in Wisconsin and nationwide after the 2004 elections, only 18 cases of substantiated illegal voting led to convictions in our state."

http://ashlandcurrent.com/article....id-bill


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
gunslinger Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mar. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 7:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Identity and background checks are required for firearm purchases.  Why not for voting?

After all, the vote is mightier than the firearm right?


--------------
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
Raznation Search for posts by this member.
Why surf when you can make waves!
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 24405
Joined: Sep. 2004
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 9:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Apr. 21 2011, 6:24 am)
QUOTE
Identity and background checks are required for firearm purchases.  Why not for voting?

After all, the vote is mightier than the firearm right?

There is so much FAIL in this post, I dont know where to begin.

But lets see if I can up one.

=====

Registration and annual taxes are required for automobile purchases.  Why not for guns?

After all, the guns are mightier than the automobile right?


--------------
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 25
star Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3517
Joined: Jun. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The long and the short of it is this is American... we get to vote. This is something people are DYING to do elsewhere in the world. When we stop letting people vote we become them.
Why can't people see this for the slippery slope that it is? The Tea Party is already making noise that only property owners should be able to vote. Who wants to be a serf? Not me.

http://www.newser.com/story....te.html


--------------
If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 20 2011, 9:47 pm)
QUOTE
So the point is that it it could potentially be wrong if the proof of identification gets
so restrictive that it makes it difficult for some to actually vote who are US citizens
like for example proposed laws designed to prevent as many young people as possible to
vote like the example I cited above in post 2:that would ban students from using in-state
university- or college-issued IDs for proof-of-residency when voting. If this legislation
became law, it would become one of the strictest voter registration laws in the country and
would provide significant logistical and financial barriers for a variety of groups,
including student and minority voters.
.

Proposed laws like that are meant to stop voter fraud. They are meant to prevent as many
voters as possible who the designers of the law think will more likely be Democratic. In
fact I also cited a Republican who cited a similar law in New Hampshire who he justified
the proposed law not on grounds of stopping voter fraud but because “kids voting liberal,
voting their feelings, with no life experience.”.

From your article
QUOTE
"One side is convinced fraud is rampant; the other believes that disenfranchisement is widespread. Neither can point to much in the way of evidence to support their position, so they simply turn up the volume."


As far ar your 'example' if you watched the video, he was talking about local elections where same day registration of college kids can approach the number of people who live there, which in his example, got someone elected to office who was from Montana. Then apparently, when she was suppose to show up for a meeting, she was back home in Montana.

That hardly sounds like he is trying to disenfranchise them from voting because of how they vote.


--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
kykcamper Search for posts by this member.
^ that stands for kayak
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 3511
Joined: Jan. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 10:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Apr. 21 2011, 7:24 am)
QUOTE
Identity and background checks are required for firearm purchases.  Why not for voting?

After all, the vote is mightier than the firearm right?

Someone has to pay for those background checks.  Are you in favor of charging people to vote, or raising taxes to pay for this increased cost?  You can't have it both ways.  Also, kind of an odd position for someone wanting less govermnet intervention in people's lives.

While they are both "rights", voting and gun ownership are still very different things.  I've still never seen anyone kill another person with a vote.  I'd be happy for you to prove me wrong though.  

If we're really going to compare apples to oranges, lets take it a step further.  Lets apply all of these voting restriction suggestions to purchasing firearms.  

The ID thing is already covered by the background check, so we can skip that.  

I actually think the math test would be a good addition, because it would require gun owners to be more intellegent.  We could do IQ tests, but that would cost a bit more and take a little more time.  It would prevent a lot of people from being able to own a gun, but maybe that would be good.  I have a feeling it would hit the South the hardest though, since studies show that the dropout rates are higher there, and overall highschool scores tend to be lower.  

We can raise the gun purchase age to 18 or 21, since we wouldn't want children to be excercising that right.  I can't say I'm strongly opposed to that either

Hmm, what else can we add?  I know there are more suggestions out there.


--------------
Psylocide - "Well... on one side you have uneducated red necks and on the other you have pseudo-intelligent hippy liberal douches."
Paulbrown - "a deck of cards is heavier than many admit, will you really use them? consider replacing with a plastic bottle filled with booze."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 28
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 21 2011, 10:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

kyle2193 Said
QUOTE


From your article
QUOTE

"One side is convinced fraud is rampant; the other believes that disenfranchisement is widespread. Neither can point to much in the way of evidence to support their position, so they simply turn up the volume."



But we are talking about laws related to voting being proposed by Republicans(Not Democrats)
not on the basis of disenfranchisement but supposed voter fraud.

But if you quoted that quote above to discount disenfranchise as a reason for not
automatically thinking stricter laws on voting are a good idea then (that is if
you're consistent) then you should also discount voter fraud as a reason to justify
these stricter laws since what was quoted was equally skeptical to both claims of
disenfranchise and voter fraud claims.

kyle2193 Said
QUOTE

As far ar your 'example' if you watched the video, he was talking about local elections where same day registration of college kids can approach the number of people who live there, which in his example, got someone elected to office who was from Montana. Then apparently, when she was suppose to show up for a meeting, she was back home in Montana.


Back "home" or visiting her parents? Where is the evidence that she wasn't a resident of New
Hampshire? Now the person in question looks like it was was someone by the name of Vanessa
Sievers who won the election. Did she lose her job because it was determined she was elected
illegally? Where is the evidence that contradicts this NY Times article that says she (as of
the time of this article which was November 12, 2008) was a resident of New Hampshire?


Ms. Sievers, now a New Hampshire resident, said she has worked as a bookkeeper and served on the school board in Livingston, Mont., while a student there.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13hampshire.html


Where is the independent corroboration of anything O'Brian claimed? If a college kid can
legally vote in place X in state Y then that means they have become a resident of that
state. I find it ironic that you made a big deal about Matt Taibii supposedly not showing
any evidence of a crime and then here you are taking at face value what this GOP politician
says what is motivating him(and others who share his desire for stricter voting requirements)
without questioning whether his claim is even factual.

Obrien's example probably shows what really was going which was sour grapes

Here is what her opponent said when she lost


HAVERHILL, N.H. — A county treasurer who lost her bid for a fourth term last week to a 20-year-old Dartmouth College student from Montana blames her failed candidacy on "brainwashed college kids."

Republican Carol Elliott said students just voted for the Democratic ticket, which included Dartmouth junior Vanessa Sievers. Sievers won by nearly 600 votes out of 42,000 cast after targeting voters at Dartmouth and Plymouth State University through a $42 ad on the Web site Facebook.

"It was the brainwashed college kids that made the difference," Elliott, 66, told the Valley News of Lebanon. She said she had little faith that Sievers will fulfill her duties adequately.

"You've got a teenybopper for a treasurer," said Elliott, who has held the position for six years. "I'm concerned for the citizens of Grafton County."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/6111037.html

Sounds like sour grapes to me but inadvertently I think makes my case better than the case
you're trying to make. The local GOP there wants to stop the possibility that votes result
in Democratic candidates.

Furthermore where is the evidence that same day registration leads to voter fraud?

The sec of state of Montana even had this to say about same day registration


Secretary of State Linda McCulloch opposed the bill, saying nearly 19,000 people have registered on Election Day since it became legal in 2006 and it has not led to voter fraud.


http://billingsgazette.com/news....e0.html


kyle2193 Said
QUOTE

That hardly sounds like he is trying to disenfranchise them from voting because of how they vote.


Taking those quote from the loser shows that disenfranchise certainly looks like it could
have been easily a motivating factor given the person was a Democrat who won and given once
again O'Brian's quote of "kids voting liberal, voting their feelings, with no life
experience" and that the loser said “brainwashed college kids” in reference to them voting
for the Democratic ticket.  

Ya no political motivation there. Sure.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2011, 4:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Where is the evidence that she wasn't a resident of New
Hampshire?

I was never claiming he was correct in his discription, I was simply framing his quote in context.
Which was addressing your quote of

"In fact I also cited a Republican who cited a similar law in New Hampshire who he justified
the proposed law not on grounds of stopping voter fraud but because “kids voting liberal,
voting their feelings, with no life experience"

Disagreeing with the quote in context is another topic all together.

Though apparently she is missing meeting and has a lack of communication.
http://www.wcax.com/story....ed=true


--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 30
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10655
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 22 2011, 7:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

kyle2193 Said
QUOTE

I was never claiming he was correct in his discription, I was simply framing his quote in context.
Which was addressing your quote of

"In fact I also cited a Republican who cited a similar law in New Hampshire who he justified
the proposed law not on grounds of stopping voter fraud but because “kids voting liberal,
voting their feelings, with no life experience"


Well I have to say when you said which in his example, got someone elected to office who
was from Montana. Then apparently, when she was suppose to show up for a meeting, she was
back home in Montana.
it certainly seems you're taking his example at face value or
at the very least thought the statement had at least a 50% chance of being true but
that aside you said at the end That hardly sounds like he is trying to disenfranchise
them from voting because of how they vote.
.

Well Again aside from his comment of "kids voting liberal, voting their feelings, with no
life experience", in order to believe that you would have to believe he wasn't motivated by
politics(which means you would have to ignore that quote of his) and that he really was
motivated by voter fraud which would mean that you would have to believe he really didn't
know these facts that I laid out concerning Vanessa Sievers. You believe this Republican
politician was that ignorant?

kyle2193 Said
QUOTE

Though apparently she is missing meeting and has a lack of communication.
http://www.wcax.com/story....ed=true


Which I don't see how the above has any relevance on whether her being elected backs up
that Republican politician's supposed motivation for pushing such legislation being based
on voter fraud.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
146 replies since Mar. 12 2011, 1:28 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 512345>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply The next step: Going after Democratic voters
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions