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Dennis The Menace 
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2012, 1:50 am |
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ya so here is the latest in that dictatorial anti-democratic law
Looks like Detroit might next be on the list of cities
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news....-
and if Detroit gets an Emergency Manager over 49% of Michigan African
Americans will soon be ruled by a Emergency Manager
http://www.eclectablog.com/2011....ll.html
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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GoBlueHiker
Obsessive Island Hopper...
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2012, 2:24 am |
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With the current trends in national legislation, it wouldn't surprise me to see similar laws enacted at the federal level. Much to the chagrin of any citizen paying attention, of course, but these days it wouldn't surprise me.
Anyway, back on topic, thanks for the update. Curious to see where that goes.
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Wealth needs more. Happiness needs less. Simplify.
www.RainForestTreks.com
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2012, 8:58 am |
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Thanks. I hadn't heard of this Emergency Manager law until now.
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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BillBab
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2012, 4:28 pm |
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Well I suppose we could just send the entire city to debtors prison....if we want to remain old school
Or I am certainly open to other suggestions
But the Emergency Financial Manager law has been on the books in Michigan since 1988
But if you would rather let the city go bankrupt and let a judge run things instead, then who am I to quibble 
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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Dennis The Menace
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2012, 6:16 pm |
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Open to other suggestions? How about letting democracy takes it course and let the people
decide how to resolve the financial problems(if in fact that really is the problem here)
rather than one dictator? Texas is in huge debt and if they had a similar law there and by
chance a Democratic governor won the election there(I know would never happen given
they elected that dolt Perry) and did the same thing in some cities dominated by Republicans
would you justify that the same way you're justifying it here? Ya right.
Oh and you're leaving out some details when you said But the Emergency Financial Manager
law has been on the books in Michigan since 1988
Emergency financial managers became “emergency managers” when their powers were
strengthened by Public Act 4 in 2011.
The more powerful emergency managers (EMs) can now strip locally elected officials of
their power and they can renegotiate, alter, or void union contracts before they expire.
http://michiganradio.org/post....ger-law
Big difference between Emergency financial managers of the past and these new “emergency
managers” which surprise surprise just happen to give this Republican administration the
power to renegotiate, alter, or void union contracts before they expire.. You think
that is just a coincidence?
With that in mind BillBab I would like to see you to show proof that the motivation here
really is based on the financial situation of those cities(which once again just happen to
have large African-American populations) rather using that as false PR reason used to
justify doing something else(like taking on unions for political reasons) that they could
never justify to the public?
But want to know something BillBab, when I decided to make this thread I anticipating you
would reply giving a similar response you gave in a similar thread where you gave
justification for the law that effectively nullifies the elections. Now here is the thing
BillBab, you recently said this about Obama
Really, the only alternative to actually playing by the rules is a dictator or a king.....
and the current occupant of the white house appears to be emulating the latter.
and this about another poster Why not just say it....you really want a dictatorship
http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....9;st=30
I noted the hypocrisy in that thread and sure enough here you are advocating something akin
to dictatorship and the government not playing by the rules once again.
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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BillBab
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2012, 5:58 am |
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At the end of the day, if the people of Detroit really would rather just watch the city go bankrupt then my inclination would be to let them
Lucky for them they have a governor that actually cares about their welfare
Perhaps they would all rather to just chip in and bail out the city...no....that will not work....that threatens their wallets agian....no....better to rearrange the deck chairs and hope for a handout....I mean bailout!
But things like this, and the recall actions in Wisconsin make me fear fot the future of this country
Rather than supporting those leaders that are willing to make the tough choices to insure continued financial solvencey, there are far too many sheeple that would rather just kick that can further down the road. In wisonsin they elected the guy that promised to balance the budget and now some want to fire him for doing it
Michigans Constitution allows the Governor to remove city officials for "failing to do their duty or corruption"
Granholm did it with Kwame and it IIRC the race card was not played
So evidently being elected allows you to be incompetent but not dishonest
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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muttpacker
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2012, 10:30 am |
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Lucky for Michigan they're willing to forego any remnants of a democracy in order to remain viable. Who's next? BillBab's hometown looks a little unstable...
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Ignorant is temporary. Stupid is permanent. Choosing to be ignorant is stupid.
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Dennis The Menace
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2012, 12:44 pm |
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First before I begin, Billbab read the following
For all the controversy over the national debt ceiling, here's a surprise: Since 2001, the debt
load in conservative Texas has grown faster than the federal debt.
Texas has been borrowing more than most other states, too. And local entities, from cities to school
districts to transit authorities, have been piling up even more debt.
From 2001 to 2010, state debt alone grew from $13.4 billion to $37.8 billion, according to the Texas
Bond Review Board. That's an increase of 281 percent. Over the same time, the national debt rose almost
234 percent, with two wars, two tax cuts and stimulus spending.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011....ink=cpy
So the debt problem in Texas I think its safe to say is more a result of lack of revenue that causes
them to borrow so the question I have for you billBab is that if Texas did have a law comparable
to the Michigan Emergency Manager law and then by chance a new Democratic governor was elected and
he started to use that law to take over these various conservative towns do you really expect anyone
on this forum to believe you would have applauded that new Democratic governor doing what you're
applauding Snyder for doing?
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2012, 12:45 pm |
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Ok moving on
Billbab said
QUOTE
At the end of the day, if the people of Detroit really would rather just watch the city go bankrupt then my inclination would be to let them
Lucky for them they have a governor that actually cares about their welfare
Billbab you're such a dupe to think Snyder cares about their welfare and that has anything
to do with this. Once again Billbab what didn't you understand about what I quoted which was
Emergency financial managers became “emergency managers” when their powers were
strengthened by Public Act 4 in 2011.
The more powerful emergency managers (EMs) can now strip locally elected officials of
their power and they can renegotiate, alter, or void union contracts before they expire.
So just like in Wisconsin, Snyder is using something as a false pretext to go after the unions
which are of course the most reliable donors to the Democratic party. Is just a coincidence
that in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio(just to name a few) they are going after the unions? Of
course it has been shown(at least in Wisconsin) that the unions were willing to make concessions
but still that wasn't good enough for Walker because what they were really after were the collecting
bargaining in and of itself.
Billbab said
QUOTE
Perhaps they would all rather to just chip in and bail out the city...no....that will not work....
that threatens their wallets agian....no....better to rearrange the deck chairs and hope for a handout....I mean bailout!
handout? Stereotype much BillBab?
Billbab said
QUOTE
But things like this, and the recall actions in Wisconsin make me fear fot the future of this country
Rather than supporting those leaders that are willing to make the tough choices to insure continued
financial solvencey, there are far too many sheeple that would rather just kick that can further down
the road. In wisonsin they elected the guy that promised to balance the budget and now some want to
fire him for doing it
What I fear in this country is people like you BillBab that seem to live in this information bubble
where you keep on recycling the same debunked BS over and over again. You once again show yourself
to be a dupe. In Wisconsin once again the union agreed to concessions very early on but still Walker
wanted to take them on because once again it was about going after the collective bargaining in
and of itself. This was also the same Walker that agreed to tax cuts which are projected to increase
Wisconsin Debt a year or two later. Wisconsin Republicans(fitzpatric?) have been on record as saying
that they thought going after the unions would make it harder for Obama to win in Wisconsin.
On and Walker didn't go after all the unions. The ones Walker didn't go after surprise surprise just
happen to be Walker donor.
But you see none of these points matter to you because you're a dupe and months and years later you will
still recycle these debunked talking points because that is what dupes do.
Billbab said
QUOTE
Michigans Constitution allows the Governor to remove city officials for "failing to do their duty or corruption"
Granholm did it with Kwame and it IIRC the race card was not played
So evidently being elected allows you to be incompetent but not dishonest
Oh ya and there is no possibility that someone like Snyder will use a phoney allegation of
"incompetence" or "debt" or "insolvency" to justify something were the justification is
really rooted in cut throat political calculations now would it? That would never happen would
it?
So once again BillBab I ask you to show proof that the motivation here really is based on the
financial situation of those cities(which once again just happen to have large African-American
populations) rather using that as false PR reason used to justify doing something else(like
taking on unions for political reasons) that they could never justify any other way?
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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star
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2008
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Posted on: Jan. 19 2012, 12:56 pm |
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Actually it is any contract, not just union contract.
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If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 2:01 am |
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So Michigan Republicans still detest Democracy. Michigan voters in the last election voted to overturn the last version
of the Emergency Manger law instituted by Republican in 2011 which gave emergency managers the "power to strip locally elected
officials of their power and they can renegotiate, alter, or void union contracts before they expire."
So what did Michigan Republicans in their state legislature and Republican governor Snyder do after the November election?
52 days later they made a another emergency manger but this one differs from the previous one in the following way
Unlike the 2011, the new emergency manager law can not challenged at the ballot box by a voter-initiated referendum. That's
because lawmakers included a state appropriation of $780,000 to pay the salaries of emergency managers and another $5 million
for the Treasury Department to pay lawyers, financial consultants and others to work on Chapter 9 bankruptcy plans for cities
and school districts that chose to go that route.
'
http://www.detroitnews.com/article....hdIG8EN
and so now the question is will Snyder use the law to appoint a Emergency Manager in Detroit and if he does
about 49% of African Americans in Michigan will be subject to the Emergency Manager
http://www.eclectablog.com/2013....nt.html
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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2PawsRiver
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Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 2008
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 6:40 am |
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The majority of the people in the City of Detroit have clearly demonstrated they lack the ability or desire to responsibly manage their City.
A mini version has already happened in Michigan in Benton Harbor, a place many refer to as Little Detroit. The people of Benton Harbor lack the intelligence and ability to run their own city, and as usual Democrats have done what Democrats do in this type of situation, throw more money on it, and it has not worked for years and millions and millions of dollars has been wasted.
Problem is when they assigned a City Manager to Benton Harbor, they clearly didn't do it based on ability but on appearance............he has the right look..........and has continued to waste money and run the city even further into debt and are now going to now try another EFM..............they'll do the same thing in Detroit.
Too many PC morons who are scared of race. Race has already even been made an issue here......has nothing to do with race and everything to do with intelligence, ability and desire.
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www.MarkandSharonLundin.com
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Dennis The Menace
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 2:11 pm |
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2PawsRiver
What bunch inane nonsense which is mind boggling ironic considering that you used the word
"intelligence" twice. First of all there is NOTHING that justifies nullifying democracy
in the way these Republicans have done with this emergency manager law. Not only from the
standpoint of the law they passed in 2011 but how they passed another on in December of last
year after the 2012 election when the electorate voted to overturn the last version of the
Emergency Manger law instituted by Republican in 2011. You want to use a standard of fiscal
responsibility(and this assume this really was the reason that has motivated Republicans)
to justify dictatorship then what is to say any power in power can arbitrarily choose any
other standard to justify dictatorship? What is the point representative democracy if any
power can use an arbitrary standard to nullify representative democracy? This is the ultimate
in so called "big government"
For you to suggest this cities aren't being managed well because of lack of " intelligence,
ability and desire." is ironically mind boggling stupid. Detroit for example has an
unemployment rate of 17.6% so ANY city with that kind of unemployment rate is going to have a
big problem with revenue(DUH!!). So this isn't about spending. You've mindlessly barfed up
the typical right-wing narrative and then you lecture us on who doesn't have intelligence.
Now are you going blame the city management for the high unemployment rate in Detroit? if
you do then you're essentially making the argument, although you may not realize it, that
its the government's job to create jobs.
and about race, fact of the matter is, if Detroit gets subject to the emergency manager law
49% African Americans in Michigan will live in cities subject to the emergency manager law.
The point there isn't so much what is the motivation there as the fact that is just despicable
if it get to the point that Detroit gets subject to the Emergency manager law
"if Detroit gets an EFM, 49% of the African Americans in Michigan will live in cities where
their elected officials have been replaced by a single, state-appointed ruler."
http://www.eclectablog.com/2013....nt.html
^^ system might put in a <b>. Just take away the <br> and you can see the link
I think its just pathetic if anyone tries justify these Emergency Manger laws especially in
their recent forms. If you anyone supports these Emergency manger laws and still thinks of
themselves as a small government conservative then they obviously aren't thinking.
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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Dennis The Menace
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 2:27 pm |
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So what could possibly be the real motivation of Republicans in Michigan inregard to these
emergency manger laws? Well think about other states that Republicans have been in power
and what shenanigans they pulled that they didn't give any clue they were going to pull(didn't
tell the public)? In those cases what usually was the target they were going after? unions.
and so sure enough look what we find
Michigan Republican Governor Rick Snyder signed a law giving financially distressed cities
and school districts a choice of bankruptcy or a state-appointed emergency manager with the
power to cancel union contracts.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news....aw.html
Morons will blindly barf up right-wing narrative like "well ya. They are going after the
unions because unions have bankrupted our state" or some other inane nonsense like that(
That was the excuse in Wisconsin that some barfed up which was total BS. Wisconsin's financial
situation was like that of the entire nation which was hit by the recession that started in
Dec of 2007 but didn't really get moving hard until the Fall of 2008)
Nope. Going after the unions is way to go after a prime Democratic constituency. You go
after the unions you go after one of the Democratic party's most important and funders which
BTW, aren't represented by multimillionaires or billionaires(which would be the typical
funders of Karl Rove's organization, Koch Brother's organization, Freedomworks or the Chamber
of Commerce) but ordinary Americans.
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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2PawsRiver
Group: Members
Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 2008
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 4:33 pm |
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(Dennis The Menace @ Feb. 23 2013, 2:11 pm)
QUOTE 2PawsRiver What bunch inane nonsense which is mind boggling ironic considering that you used the word "intelligence" twice. First of all there is NOTHING that justifies nullifying democracy in the way these Republicans have done with this emergency manager law. Not only from the standpoint of the law they passed in 2011 but how they passed another on in December of last year after the 2012 election when the electorate voted to overturn the last version of the Emergency Manger law instituted by Republican in 2011. You want to use a standard of fiscal responsibility(and this assume this really was the reason that has motivated Republicans) to justify dictatorship then what is to say any power in power can arbitrarily choose any other standard to justify dictatorship? What is the point representative democracy if any power can use an arbitrary standard to nullify representative democracy? This is the ultimate in so called "big government" For you to suggest this cities aren't being managed well because of lack of " intelligence, ability and desire." is ironically mind boggling stupid. Detroit for example has an unemployment rate of 17.6% so ANY city with that kind of unemployment rate is going to have a big problem with revenue(DUH!!). So this isn't about spending. You've mindlessly barfed up the typical right-wing narrative and then you lecture us on who doesn't have intelligence. Now are you going blame the city management for the high unemployment rate in Detroit? if you do then you're essentially making the argument, although you may not realize it, that its the government's job to create jobs. and about race, fact of the matter is, if Detroit gets subject to the emergency manager law 49% African Americans in Michigan will live in cities subject to the emergency manager law. The point there isn't so much what is the motivation there as the fact that is just despicable if it get to the point that Detroit gets subject to the Emergency manager law "if Detroit gets an EFM, 49% of the African Americans in Michigan will live in cities where their elected officials have been replaced by a single, state-appointed ruler." http://www.eclectablog.com/2013....nt.html^^ system might put in a <b>. Just take away the <br> and you can see the link I think its just pathetic if anyone tries justify these Emergency Manger laws especially in their recent forms. If you anyone supports these Emergency manger laws and still thinks of themselves as a small government conservative then they obviously aren't thinking.
Clearly you've not spent any quality time in either Detroit or Benton Harbor.
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www.MarkandSharonLundin.com
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8482
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 4:55 pm |
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2PawsRiver
and if I did what specific parts of what I said would change?
Would it change for example my point about NOTHING that justifies nullifying democracy?
Would it change for example my point about using some arbitrary standard to justify
dictatorship?
Would it change for example my point what you're advocating is the ulimate form of "big
Government"
Would it change for example the fact that Detroit has an unemployment rate of 17.6% which
of course would lead ANY city to have financial problems?
Would it change the fact that the real underlying motivation here is what has motivated so
many Republicans in other states namely going after the unions?
Oh and BTW, are you suggesting that your personal anecdotal experience trump sources I use
which are authored by people who are willing to go on record with their real name
and a history that you can look up?
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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Montanalonewolf
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Posts: 4886
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2013, 6:39 am |
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And many of you have said things like this wouldn't happen. I would say it's the beginning of the end for the US except it's actually somewhere in the middle. The fall has been in progress for years and this is just another straw added to the poor camel.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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Raznation
Why surf when you can make waves!
Group: Members
Posts: 23583
Joined: Sep. 2004
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Posted on: Feb. 24 2013, 1:51 pm |
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(Dennis The Menace @ Jan. 19 2012, 11:44 am)
QUOTE First before I begin, Billbab read the following
For all the controversy over the national debt ceiling, here's a surprise: Since 2001, the debt
load in conservative Texas has grown faster than the federal debt.
Texas has been borrowing more than most other states, too. And local entities, from cities to school
districts to transit authorities, have been piling up even more debt.
From 2001 to 2010, state debt alone grew from $13.4 billion to $37.8 billion, according to the Texas
Bond Review Board. That's an increase of 281 percent. Over the same time, the national debt rose almost
234 percent, with two wars, two tax cuts and stimulus spending.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011....ink=cpySo the debt problem in Texas I think its safe to say is more a result of lack of revenue that causes them to borrow so the question I have for you billBab is that if Texas did have a law comparable to the Michigan Emergency Manager law and then by chance a new Democratic governor was elected and he started to use that law to take over these various conservative towns do you really expect anyone on this forum to believe you would have applauded that new Democratic governor doing what you're applauding Snyder for doing?
But Perry can brag that he hasnt raised taxes!
At least thats one of three things he can count on.
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8482
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2013, 3:32 am |
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well Snyder declares Detroit under the Emergency Manger Law
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/article...._coming
You know its interesting to see some of the paranoid gun freaks talk about freedom and how they
think the government is going to take away all their guns, eliminate the 2nd amendment, etc..
.. But when real freedom and democracy is under attack and not just some paranoid
fantasy where the fu** are they?
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
