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Old Frank 
Group: Members
Posts: 648
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 2:43 pm |
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Poll-takers don't elect presidents, voters do....
.... but it's not looking good at the moment for Romney, even tho most americans are worried about the state of our economy.
So....if you had to name one or two main reasons....why is Romney trailing?
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 2
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HighGravity
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 2:51 pm |
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The same reason Gore and Kerry were never liked. He's perceived as snooty and out of touch. Reagan, Bush Jr, Clinton and Obama all seemed like regular guys you might meet down at the pub. Swing voters like plain folk.
That's why McCain picked a folksy talking moderately attractive women, in hopes of boosting is likability. Unfortunately for his campaign she turned out to be an idiot.
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| Post Number: 3
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davela
Group: Members
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 2:52 pm |
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He and his wall st cohorts are job destroyers and killed the financial infrastructure over the last 2 decades.
Oh,and flip 'n' flop.
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Protect Greater Canyonlands!
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
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| Post Number: 4
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 3:01 pm |
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I think it is the sad state of the R party that is to blame for a lack of voter interest in their candidate. The War on Women, the refusal to step up to the podium and help lead this nation out of a recession they caused, and their lack of an intelligent approach to any Immigration policy all add up to No Chance.
It doesn't help that we do not elect our POTUS by popular vote. The Electoral College is currently stacked against the R's. As each state becomes more urban, the population swings towards the D's. It appears that this election may be decided by those who live in the suburbs, which are becoming more and more racially diverse. Rural voters, mostly R's, are far outnumbered by urban voters, mostly D's.
New England, coupled with the Industrial Midwest and the West Coast, all add up to a nearly insurmountable advantage for the D's. All it really takes is 1 or 2 other states to add up to the required 270.
If we cannot go to a direct popular vote, we should at least allocate the Electoral vote by House district, and proportioning the votes representing the 2 Senators per state.
I am aware this may result in an outcome not in my political comfort zone, but it would be more honest.
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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| Post Number: 5
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Drift Woody
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 3:16 pm |
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I think it is becoming more and more obvious to more and more voters that Romney will say anything to pander to his immediate audience. During the course of this long campaign the weight of his contradictory and false statements are revealing him as a man with little regard for the truth and no core convictions or than money and that Mitt Romney should be president.
Most voters want a man with character and personal integrity in the White House, and I'd bet that many Teapartiers who will vote the R ticket no matter what have very little regard for Willard Mitt Romney as a man.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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| Post Number: 6
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 3:37 pm |
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I said currently stacked against the R's because all of those small red states totaled together only add up to about 167 EC votes. The D's started out with about 240. It won't be long until Tx moves into the D column, based on minority voting history. When that happens, or if Fl moves more permanently, most elections will be decided already.
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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| Post Number: 8
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hbfa
Group: Members
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 4:22 pm |
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Well, the only poll that really matters is the one on election day.
That aside, I think Romney's trailing in the polls because more and more Americans are realizing that what he's trying to sell doesn't work well for them, their families, or their country.
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| Post Number: 9
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orygawn
Sleeping Bag Man!
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 4:27 pm |
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Because he looked unpresidential in his cowardly, petty, premature attack on Obama after the Libyan consulate attack.
Because he looked unpresidential in his divisive, elitist, contemptuous rant against half the population he aspires to lead.
His high numbers in spite of this are a testament to the effectiveness of the rightwing noise machine, certainly not to the man himself.
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -- Galileo
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bad knees
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 5:00 pm |
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Some pundits say the Rep's gave up on him weeks ago. Explains the speeches at the RNC. They say they would rather have Obama for 4 more years than Romney for 8. They are all planning for their own run in 2016. His advisors seem to be absent.
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There's a story behind that!
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| Post Number: 12
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Gabby
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 5:24 pm |
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He's not trailing. Let me repeat that. He's not trailing.
And that is the real mystery to me. With all the mistakes, all the gaffes, the outright "pro-elite, anti-middle class" economic agenda stated right up front (though it's somewhat more bluntly stated in the leaked video), the pro-war/"I'll start a war with Iran" right wing saber-rattling and the absolutely overt lack of contact with anyone outside his "donor class" - he's still well "within the noise"/"within the margin of error" close.
And when I say "within the noise", I'm talking about the indications anyone should get when a single poll moves from "Obama +5" to "tie" in the space of one week. For me, that spells N-O-I-S-E, if not "stupid voter vacillation", the phenomenon wherein many more voters than one would reasonably expect see no difference between candidates, since most are right of center to begin with, and the media do their best to be "fair", for which the definition of "fair" is often to equate the positions of two opposing politicians as equally reasonable, when they are not at all "equally reasonable" or, as is the case with the current Republican candidate, not even stated before election day.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. We've only seen the preliminaries of the usual "Republican shenanigans" so far. Those have served their purpose, even though they have been struck down here and there. There will be more "dirty tricks", my friends. Their totally inept, completely out of touch, funded by the rich elite wreck of a candidate is well within striking distance despite his obvious lack of qualifications and disastrous agenda (where he's been forward enough to state it - sometimes "by accident").
I strongly suspect he will not win. But he isn't exactly "out of the running", not by a long shot.
The Sheldon Adelsons and Koch brothers of the world don't play by the rules - if they even admit of there being rules. But you knew that. Of course.
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"I wouldn't even know how to begin to find the 'peyote lady', even if I thought it was possible in this incarnation...I'm completely tripped out on everyday life."
"By the way: where am I?"
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| Post Number: 13
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Old Frank
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 8:18 pm |
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I agree with Gabby. It ain't over 'til it's over.
What puzzles me most about this campaign is the large number of Romney supporters for whom I suspect he holds in contempt.
I think, can't prove, when he said 47%, he meant something closer to 90%, if not more.
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 14
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hbfa
Group: Members
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 8:26 pm |
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What puzzles me is the large number of R's that wanted nothing to do with him until he was the last man standing.
Anybody but Obama!
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| Post Number: 15
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Drake
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Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 8:31 pm |
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Seems to me that Romney is trailing in the polls because he is particularly inept at interviewing for a job that does not report directly to the Board. He might make a passable King were we still accepting of a feudal relationship with the government but of course we aren't, yet.
Also seems to me that his apparent disaffection for most of the rest of us precludes his consideration for the POTUS position on the simple premise that not only is the consent of the governed necessary but the respect of the governed as well. He will have neither.
And I would be willing to bet that right about now Ryan is wishing he hadn't decided to ride into this disaster. At least Ryan is a Republican, with a philosophy and everything, whereas Mitt is "just an ambitious man". Scarborough got it right. Mitt is trailing because he sits his horse backwards and because he reminds too many people of the executives that they know too well, the executives who run the companies for whom they work. Is that fair? No. Is that real? Yes it is.
He will never be POTUS. Not ever.
On a more positive note let's all hope that the Republican party gets its scene squared away sooner rather than later as this country desperately needs a loyal opposition and the Republican party as it stands today simply is not it. But it could be.
I look forward to that day. But as for Mitt, well, forget him. Get a head start on December.
Drake
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george of the j
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 10:35 pm |
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Romney's lack of charisma probably costs him a percentage point or two.
It will be interesting to see how each candidate performs in the debates on the issue of the economy. Can Romney sell the "the government can't spend more than it takes in" line (which appeals to a lot of peoples' intuition, but is wrong to anyone who knows a little about macroeconomics)? Will Obama let Romney get away with selling that line in the debates? Will Obama be able to explain how deficit spending is needed during high unemployment in the debates? Will Obama be able to expose Romney's claim he will balance the budget as BS based on the Republican record over the past 30 years of talking about fiscal responsibility while at the same time running huge deficits?
---George
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| Post Number: 18
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Land Rover
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 10:38 pm |
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Can anyone give me an example of when the more charismatic guy lost in the tv era?
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| Post Number: 19
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gunslinger
Group: Members
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Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Sep. 22 2012, 10:57 pm |
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Man what a liberal love fest...
I think you're all going to be very disappointed when Obama joins the ranks of the unemployed come January.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 20
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| Post Number: 22
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Gabby
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2006
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 12:13 am |
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We should have a poll and see who thinks that there will be some "surprise bs" by the GOP in this election - I mean, other than the crap they've already been doing. (See Sarah Silverman thread.)
We could pick a date when we think the media will first learn of it, and the person with the closest date to that before the election wins a free Thanksgiving turkey! In case of a tie, half a turkey. No one guesses, and everyone gets a "bird". Republicans (and sympathizers of every stripe) cannot participate, due to the possibility that they're on the "team of plumbers" already involved. They get a "bird" anyway - every time I pass one of them damned "Romney/Ryan" yard signs, and that's for sure. (Romney/Ryan bumper stickers...geez, you'd think idiots wouldn't want to admit their special handicap...)
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"I wouldn't even know how to begin to find the 'peyote lady', even if I thought it was possible in this incarnation...I'm completely tripped out on everyday life."
"By the way: where am I?"
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dayhiker9
Group: Members
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 12:57 am |
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Someone told me the thing they did not like about Romney is his face!
ie. (two) face
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" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers." Krugman
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cweston
Group: Members
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 8:14 am |
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(Drift Woody @ Sep. 22 2012, 10:18 pm)
QUOTE
(gunslinger @ Sep. 22 2012, 9:57 pm)
QUOTE Man what a liberal love fest...
I think you're all going to be very disappointed when Obama joins the ranks of the unemployed come January. Yeah, there might be some disappointment that Obama can't serve a third term when he leaves office in January 2017.
Eh. I voted for Obama in 08 and will vote for him this year. But he'd have to improve as a leader considerably in his second term (assuming there is one) in order for me to go so far as to be disappointed to see his second term end.
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| Post Number: 28
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cweston
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 8:20 am |
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Taking a shot at the original question:
Of course, he's just not very likable. And in a field (politics) where flip-flopping and poll-watching are the norm, he manages to stand out as a guy that will say anything on any given day. And while almost all national-level politicians are out-of-tough rich guys, he manages to stand out (mightily) in that area as well.
But another thing--the GOP never really wanted him. They clearly wanted someone, anyone, else in the primary process. Only when all the other candidates flamed out did they settle on supporting Romney. And I think this, combined with some very pointed comments by the likes of Grove Norquist, have led to the impression that Romney will simply be a rubber stamp for the more kookoo wing of the GOP in the legislature. I think that scares people. The executive needs to be a person with some common sense--a lot of legislation is at least partially the result of groupthink and strongarming tactics on the part of the party leaders. The president needs to be the person to say no to that sometimes.
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| Post Number: 29
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gunslinger
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 8:33 am |
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CW I think that's a valid point, Romney wasn't my first pick, or my second pick for that matter.
If he does win, I'd think the liberals would be just as happy, judging by his record.
He's no conservative.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 30
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cweston
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Posted on: Sep. 23 2012, 8:44 am |
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Well, it's kindof hard to tell what he is--he certainly didn't govern as a conservative in Massachusetts, but he does seem to be quite a chameleon, so who knows. He's certainly become quite a class warrior in his rhetoric, which is probably the part that scare folks on the left of center the most.
They figure the middle and lower classes are already taking it on the chin in our current economic system--how much worse would that get with a plutocratic class warrior in the White House?
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