SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Still Blaming Bush, Not real classy< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5282
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 6:08 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://online.wsj.com/article....LEADTop

So the question is....if he can do nothing to fix the economy, and in fact, only manage to make it "10% worse"

Then why allow him another four years to simply watch it burn from the comfort of the Oval office

Of course the 10% number is a joke....and this article does a great job deconstructing his new talking points


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
HighGravity Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4470
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 6:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Bab, still using the same cliches. How sad.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5282
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 9:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Since you still have nothing useful to say....feel free to make your snide remarks with the other usual suspects....

Lest you think I am ignoring you.....I am!


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 9:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ah, Prosecutor lite strikes again.

It's absolutely Bush's fault - Babb is just not capable of admitting it.  

Most conservatives have yet to show a modicum of decency and accept a scrap of blame for collapsing the US economy. They blame Barney Frank, the usual suspects of the poor, who dared have the temerity to want to own their own home, they blame Clinton, Obama, I think I've even seen Jimmy Carter in the somewhere.

It's basically because they can't admit their ideology might be wrong, then everything the believe and do goes out the window.

Now, had we all hoped to be better off by now - certainly.

I think the stimulus should have been bigger, with more direct spending and fewer tax cuts - but it was big as was politically viable.

As for doing more. Well I think it's pretty clear that by early 2010 the filibuster was in place, and by the end of 2010 the party of failure had retaken the house - so it was game over - so we've been holding on to the good done in the first year of the administration.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 10:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

He is right, Bush is responsible, but eventually you took the job and you need to take responsibility.

--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 10:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(kyle2193 @ Sep. 25 2012, 10:07 am)
QUOTE
He is right, Bush is responsible, but eventually you took the job and you need to take responsibility.

It's the case of the arsonists blaming the fire crews for not putting the blaze out fast enough isn't it.

And acknowledging the massive hole we were in when Obama took office - I think it was widely described as the biggest set of challenges facing any peacetime president - is not looking to absolve the present administration of the decisions it has made.

You read the bit where I was critical that the size of the stimulus wasn't enough and was directed too much at tax cuts, right kyle.

But you look at the details of what has actually happened in the past four years. An initial burst of activity after the stimulus that did work as intended - we started adding jobs - then a slow waning of activity as the GOP gained the power to stop any significant action being taken.

Look at the example of the debate over extending the debt ceiling. The GOP was willing to push the US economy off the cliff to further its own ends.

Many here have cheered the GOP for not giving an inch. Now they seem to want to claim it was Obama who wasn't being cooperating. I know you guys like to fix the game to have it both ways, but life doesn't work like that.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
N2theWild Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1645
Joined: Feb. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Most Conservatives can point out areas they disagree with their particular President and where he failed/is failing

but the Democrats think their Messiah can do no wrong. Anything that might be considered bad is always someone else's fault.

Which proves again, there is no personal responsibility nor decency with Democrats.


--------------
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (2 Timothy 4:3)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE

You read the bit where I was critical that the size of the stimulus wasn't enough and was directed too much at tax cuts, right kyle

I wasn't replying to you.


--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43749
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Some forum member* @ Sep. 25 2012, 7:07 am)
QUOTE
He is right, Bush is responsible, but eventually you took the job and you need to take responsibility.

And when he does that he get's slammed for taking credit for things he largely doesn't control. Isn't it the conservative and Republican theme that the federal government doe not have a legitimate role in directing the economy? So the president's alleged lack of effect should be lauded as following in conservative and Republican principles of "Show me in the Constitution" right? Right.

"responsibility" is a silly, simpleminded game for bumper stickering complex issues.

Pop quiz: What has been the "job creation" swing from the month he took office to this month's numbers?


* Hint: over nine hundred thousand jobs. "Responsibility"? Perhaps to be shared with the Democratic Party members of the House and Senate that voted for the ARRA of 2009 and the second phase of the TARP?

* Edited to make the point more generally and avoid the "I wasn't responding to you" business. :)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
TigerFan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2677
Joined: May 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder, have you ever been dealt a really tough hand or suffered a hardship?  Were you able to "fix" it overnight?

I had a tough time in the early 2000's.  Got divorced, moved to a new city as a single mom with a baby, went back to engineering after a decade hiatus.  Then the semi-conductor industry bottomed out and I was laid off.  Ex was AWOL.  "Unemployment insurance" wasn't even enough to cover my Cobra premiums for health insurance.  We lived on my saved retirement funds and credit cards.  It took me 4 solid years of baby steps to put my life back together, pay off debts, buy a house and think about moving forward.  It's taken me almost 10 years to replenish my retirement savings.

I think those people who feel that President Obama should have been able to "fix" this country's economy (not to mention all the global factors it depends on) in the 4-minus years he's been in office is naive, at best.  To think that "anyone but Obama" could have, is idiotic, imo.

This country's economy is based on a collection of people like me and I think the "fix" is going to require a paradigm shift in our expectations about money.  If you want it, you're going to have to earn it and save it.

The conservatives are quick to point out the "entitlement" attitude many lower-income people have but, frankly, I see the same in higher incomed people.  They expect that their homes will see double-digit appreciation year after year.  They expect their investments to grow exponentially.  They expect their bonuses to exceed their salaries.  Because that's the way it's supposed to be.  I hear them whining just as loud for *their* entitlements.

I'm an Obama fan.  I didn't vote for a super hero and I didn't expect one.  I also didn't vote for my wallet.  I think he's an intelligent thoughtful man who is determined to take this country where it needs to go.


--------------
Duct tape is like the Force.  It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
HighGravity Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4470
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(N2theWild @ Sep. 25 2012, 11:01 am)
QUOTE
their Messiah

Another idiotic cliche. Can't you guys find an original thought? Trying to hide Bush's culpability by whining when blame is accurately placed upon him ain't gonna cut it anywhere except at a tea party rally.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Marmotstew Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 9359
Joined: May 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What was Mcain and whatsherfaces plan?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43749
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Sep. 25 2012, 8:50 am)
QUOTE
I wonder, have you ever been dealt a really tough hand or suffered a hardship?  Were you able to "fix" it overnight?

I had a tough time in the early 2000's.  Got divorced, moved to a new city as a single mom with a baby, went back to engineering after a decade hiatus.  Then the semi-conductor industry bottomed out and I was laid off.  Ex was AWOL.  "Unemployment insurance" wasn't even enough to cover my Cobra premiums for health insurance.  We lived on my saved retirement funds and credit cards.  It took me 4 solid years of baby steps to put my life back together, pay off debts, buy a house and think about moving forward.  It's taken me almost 10 years to replenish my retirement savings.

I think those people who feel that President Obama should have been able to "fix" this country's economy (not to mention all the global factors it depends on) in the 4-minus years he's been in office is naive, at best.  To think that "anyone but Obama" could have, is idiotic, imo.

This country's economy is based on a collection of people like me and I think the "fix" is going to require a paradigm shift in our expectations about money.  If you want it, you're going to have to earn it and save it.

The conservatives are quick to point out the "entitlement" attitude many lower-income people have but, frankly, I see the same in higher incomed people.  They expect that their homes will see double-digit appreciation year after year.  They expect their investments to grow exponentially.  They expect their bonuses to exceed their salaries.  Because that's the way it's supposed to be.  I hear them whining just as loud for *their* entitlements.

I'm an Obama fan.  I didn't vote for a super hero and I didn't expect one.  I also didn't vote for my wallet.  I think he's an intelligent thoughtful man who is determined to take this country where it needs to go.

Well said.

I like that he speaks in paragraphs and not lying one-liners. Getting treated like an intelligent adult who can handle the details of the complex issues facing the nation is a refreshing change.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43749
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm especially fond of this lie in the link:
"Even at face value, Mr. Obama's suggestion that he is "only" responsible for 10% of what the government does is ludicrous."

When as he was quoted on in the actual article (so how hard was it going to be to see the lie? Not hard at all) the President was pointing out the source of the components that make up the current deficit. and NOTHING regarding what "%" the President is responsible for of "what the government does". This was either written by a fourth grader or slapped together by some one who needs to go back to "managing". Really the Wall Street Journal is usually more competent than this. I blame the internet.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
kyle2193 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4507
Joined: May 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 12:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 25 2012, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
"responsibility" is a silly, simpleminded game for bumper stickering complex issues.

Is that why the President was talking about it?

QUOTE
Pop quiz: What has been the "job creation" swing from the month he took office to this month's numbers?

Ah, having it both ways. The implication that he is reponsible for job creation, but not any of the negative parts.

QUOTE
* Edited to make the point more generally and avoid the "I wasn't responding to you" business. :)

:D You are so clever! I must have missed that part where I quoted him or otherwise addressed him. He assumed I read or acknowleged his post, my reply was to the topic, thus without addressing anyone, thus my response was in regards to the topic.

It is very complicated, I know.


--------------
If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there.
-Mark Twain
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43749
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 12:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(kyle2193 @ Sep. 25 2012, 9:00 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 25 2012, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
"responsibility" is a silly, simpleminded game for bumper stickering complex issues.

Is that why the President was talking about it?

QUOTE
Pop quiz: What has been the "job creation" swing from the month he took office to this month's numbers?

Ah, having it both ways. The implication that he is reponsible for job creation, but not any of the negative parts.

QUOTE
* Edited to make the point more generally and avoid the "I wasn't responding to you" business. :)

:D You are so clever! I must have missed that part where I quoted him or otherwise addressed him. He assumed I read or acknowleged his post, my reply was to the topic, thus without addressing anyone, thus my response was in regards to the topic.

It is very complicated, I know.

He was directly asked a question?

The economy HAS improved.

I wasn't responding to you.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 25 2012, 1:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(kyle2193 @ Sep. 25 2012, 12:00 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Sep. 25 2012, 11:44 am)
QUOTE
"responsibility" is a silly, simpleminded game for bumper stickering complex issues.

Is that why the President was talking about it?

QUOTE
Pop quiz: What has been the "job creation" swing from the month he took office to this month's numbers?

Ah, having it both ways. The implication that he is reponsible for job creation, but not any of the negative parts.

QUOTE
* Edited to make the point more generally and avoid the "I wasn't responding to you" business. :)

:D You are so clever! I must have missed that part where I quoted him or otherwise addressed him. He assumed I read or acknowleged his post, my reply was to the topic, thus without addressing anyone, thus my response was in regards to the topic.

It is very complicated, I know.

It's my fault really. I don't pretend to know what the hell goes on in Kyle World.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
atvtuner Search for posts by this member.
........
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 20424
Joined: Nov. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2012, 10:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

GM lives and Usama don't.

Not electing another GOP lockstep droid is why America is not 50% worse off.

But hey, when you're entrenched, eh?


--------------
"A land ethic, then, reflects the existence of an ecological conscience, and this in turn reflects a conviction of individual responsibility for the health of the land."

--Aldo Leopold
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Drake Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1097
Joined: Jul. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2012, 10:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Actually, in my view History will ultimately blame Bush for the general debacle(s) and all of us for cowardice and complicity before, during and afterwards.  And History will be right.

Not brave enough.  It's a trend.  Taliban is a type, not a group.

Drake
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10653
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 25 2012, 6:08 am)
QUOTE
http://online.wsj.com/article....LEADTop

So the question is....if he can do nothing to fix the economy, and in fact, only manage to make it "10% worse"

Then why allow him another four years to simply watch it burn from the comfort of the Oval office

Of course the 10% number is a joke....and this article does a great job deconstructing his new talking points

The question is if the so called "free market" conservatives, as a matter of principle
, like you don't believe government creates jobs then WTF are you blaming Obama
for?

The question is how ignorant does one have to be to think the President has sole
control over the economy when clearly thats not even close to true?

How ignorant does one have to be to put the entire responsibility of the economy
on the president but doesn't mention anything about the role of congress, which
is the body that actually passes legislation(president signs it or vetoes it),
not to mention the main driving force of the economy, the market itself which
cons like Billbab are supposed to believe in but still blame President for
not improving the worst economy since the depression fast enough

How ignorant does one have to be of the fact that the economy has improved even if
it hasn't improved fast enough?

How ignorant does one have to be to STILL not be aware of the fact that the CBO
has said the stimulus has created up to 3.3 million jobs and many months of
private sector job growth when it has been stated here in this forum countless times?

How ignorant does one have to be to not realize that the majority of mainstream
economists(from at least one poll) believe the stimulus worked and then still
state "if he can do nothing to fix the economy"


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10653
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

As for the article, Well this is why its utterly stupid to take a Wall Street
Editorial as any guide for anything given once again they show just how much
they are a bunch of Republican hacks

Just to take a few examples

QUOTE

Footnote No. 1: Either Mr. Obama inherited the largest deficit in American history or
he won the 1944 election, but both can't be true. The biggest annual deficit the modern
government has ever run was in 1943, equal to 30.3% of the economy, to mobilize for World War
II. The next biggest years were the following two, at 22.7% and 21.5%, to win it.


FACT:Obama inherited the largest deficit in American history

Obama never claim he inherited the largest deficit as a share of the economy



QUOTE

The deficit in fiscal 2008 was a mere 3.2% of GDP. The deficit in fiscal 2009, which began on October 1, 2008 and ran through September 2009, soared to 10.1%, the highest since 1945.


fiscal 2009 is Bush's last fiscal year not Obama's first

QUOTE

Mr. Obama wants to blame all of that on his predecessor, and no doubt the recession that began in December 2007
reduced revenues and increased automatic spending "stabilizers" like jobless insurance. But Mr. Obama conveniently
forgets a little event in February 2009 known as the "stimulus" that increased spending by a mere $830 billion above the normal baseline.


Obama says he inherited the worst economy since the depression which is true. When someone points that out,
Republican hacks like the Wall Street journal spin that as "blaming bush". No its pointing to the essential
context in explaining where we are now

As far as the stimulus being a cause of the deficts. Relative to other factors like the recession, Bush
tax cuts, etc... It was rather minor

Read any of these article from Ezra Klein for more details

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....og.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busines....ic.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....og.html


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
20 replies since Sep. 25 2012, 6:08 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Still Blaming Bush
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions