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Topic: Right Wing "Astroturfing", How many do you s'pose visit here?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 7:04 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Interesting conversations about "astro-turfing"... i.e. hiring trolls to post online talking points all around the web, masquerading as independent citizens, in order to appear to have an actual grassroots cause.

More on the explanation here.

Looking into it a bit further, there are some who claim there have been corporate firms willing to do this (Advantage Consultants, briefly, and others for short periods), posting an online advertisement essentially with "Professional BLOG Warriors" for hire.

The ad was removed due to bad press (ya think?).  A Craigslist Ad appeared for a bit in Toronto, looking for new recruits.  Even a supposed admission by one of the hired trolls surfaced later, but of course that's difficult to verify (coulda just been a troll post itself).

News, or bunk?  Discuss at will.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 7:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Could happen.

If any of the right wingers here are in fact just, "Blog Warriors".....I would say it's been a waste of money thus far.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 10:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Waste of money and time.  No one changes their mind based on online trolls.  If anything it's counterproductive as they will likely just p.o. people.  I gotta laugh at some post but do not say anything since they usually dig themselves into a a big cathole.  

It's bad enough around here in the gear section...


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 11:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We see it all the time on the Recall Walker sites, individuals with a whole slew of online personas that try to dominate conversations or otherwise harass or intimidate. Others act as moles to gain access to account information that isn't public. I had someone swipe pics of my grandkids playing in diapers to post about what a welfare queen I was. Never mind that I'm not on welfare, and the kids have nothing to do with anything.

There are a few here that show no interest whatsoever in ever going outdoors, that's kind of odd on a backpacking site. Why post here rather than a non outdoors site?


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 11:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For a real life example. Try a google search on the name  "fruhmenschen."
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 26 2012, 11:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BillBab's a cheap date. Nobody needs to pay him.

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(SW Mtn backpacker @ Sep. 26 2012, 8:49 pm)
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Waste of money and time.  No one changes their mind based on online trolls.  If anything it's counterproductive as they will likely just p.o. people.  I gotta laugh at some post but do not say anything since they usually dig themselves into a a big cathole.  

It's bad enough around here in the gear section...

That's not the point though, to *convince* anybody.  They simply need to disrupt intelligent discourse about any topic that might work out against their puppet-masters were it to remain civil.  Spout the bumper stickers, ad nauseum, and insult people left and right.  People actually discussing issues might lead to something; that's how grassroots efforts are started.  People have ideas, talk in discussions, and spread the word.  All it takes is a couple little trolls to throw monkey wrenches in that, pretty easily.  If they pick up a few low-information voters along the way to parrot those views further, all the better.


What got me was, the typical descriptions of these trolls.  They:

1) Instantly spout every single talking point coming from anywhere in the right-wing blogosphere, as if they're reading every source out there simultaneously.  (They're actually not, they're just told to say X and Y on any given day and they do.)
2) They disrupt any conversation going into depth on an issue... keep it simple, keep it dumb, keep it insulting. Flame away.  Such conversations go nowhere.
3) They don't participate in any other type of topic (like, say, backpacking) and don't mingle with the community or get to know anyone.  They are here for a constant barrage of political slogans and insults, nothing more.

And it works, that's the thing.  I'm not entirely convinced there aren't a couple of them around here.  Take your guesses.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2012, 12:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 27 2012, 12:18 pm)
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And it works, that's the thing.  I'm not entirely convinced there aren't a couple of them around here.  Take your guesses.

Dennis the Menace

Gabby


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2012, 12:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

LOL--Gabby doesn't remotely fit the profile. His posts average about 2,000 words.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 27 2012, 3:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Sep. 26 2012, 8:59 pm)
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BillBab's a cheap date. Nobody needs to pay him.

If they have paid him they should ask for a refund.
He certainly hasn't done much for the cause.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2012, 7:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

seems like it would be a waste of money

Most online discussions get dumbed down pretty fast with no help needed

And while it is the more rabid partisans that are usually to blame....they come from all sides of the political spectrum


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2012, 7:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 28 2012, 7:02 am)
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seems like it would be a waste of money

Most online discussions get dumbed down pretty fast with no help needed

And while it is the more rabid partisans that are usually to blame....they come from all sides of the political spectrum

And some start off that way.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2012, 8:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The simple answer would be some basic level of moderation

The free exchange of ideas can generally go on forever if there are moderators around to crack down on those that resort to personal attacks

It is a thankless job, but it generally keeps the conversation civil


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2012, 10:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 28 2012, 7:21 am)
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The simple answer would be some basic level of moderation

The free exchange of ideas can generally go on forever if there are moderators around to crack down on those that resort to personal attacks

It is a thankless job, but it generally keeps the conversation civil

Sure, but there are some practical drawbacks.

1) It's more complicated than that. It's not a simple case of personal attacks = bad, everything else is ok. For example, What kills legitimate discussion, IMHO, even moreso than personal attacks, are robotic one-liner responses to complex issues. Like "Obama is a socialist" or "You just want to spend other people's money" or "is that what your imaginary friend Jesus advocated?" These phrases are all like "And when did you stop beating your wife?" They are not compatible with actual discussion. In fact, their very purpose is to prevent actual discussion.

2) No one has time to perform that kind of moderation--the meaningful kind that would take item #1 into account. My experience is that, more often than not, the person who resorts to name-calling is not the discussion-killer. S/he is more likely just responding out of frustration to someone who has employed the strategy in item #1.
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2012, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 28 2012, 5:21 am)
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The free exchange of ideas can generally go on forever if there are moderators around to crack down on those that resort to personal attacks

And in particular, personal attacks in the form of denigrating entire classes of people (e.g., LGBT people).

Any message board is vastly better off without the kind of people who engage in that sort of attack.


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2012, 9:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Sep. 28 2012, 10:32 am)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Sep. 28 2012, 7:21 am)
QUOTE
The simple answer would be some basic level of moderation

The free exchange of ideas can generally go on forever if there are moderators around to crack down on those that resort to personal attacks

It is a thankless job, but it generally keeps the conversation civil

Sure, but there are some practical drawbacks.

1) It's more complicated than that. It's not a simple case of personal attacks = bad, everything else is ok. For example, What kills legitimate discussion, IMHO, even moreso than personal attacks, are robotic one-liner responses to complex issues. Like "Obama is a socialist" or "You just want to spend other people's money" or "is that what your imaginary friend Jesus advocated?" These phrases are all like "And when did you stop beating your wife?" They are not compatible with actual discussion. In fact, their very purpose is to prevent actual discussion.

2) No one has time to perform that kind of moderation--the meaningful kind that would take item #1 into account. My experience is that, more often than not, the person who resorts to name-calling is not the discussion-killer. S/he is more likely just responding out of frustration to someone who has employed the strategy in item #1.

I generally just put the one-liner crowd on ignore :)

Which I will admit makes some threads hard to follow :laugh:

But when all someone can add to a discussion is "your opinion is stupid" ...or just the equivalent of "you are stupid" without adding at least a complete sentence explaining what is supposedly wrong with your argument then deleting their post is quick and constitutes a public service.

People that do not "take the hint" should be strongly encouraged to go elsewhere so the adults can have a conversation free of interruptions

What is harder to control is the constant barrage of straw man arguments crafted by people that cannot be bothered to even try to understand someone's postition

Those folks that are sooo "smart" that they just know what you meant....even if it was not at all what you said


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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2012, 10:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I generally prefer to post links I find on the conservative blogosphere without reading them properly. Therefore i get owned virtually every time I post....
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PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 29 2012, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Sep. 29 2012, 6:50 am)
QUOTE

(cweston @ Sep. 28 2012, 10:32 am)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Sep. 28 2012, 7:21 am)
QUOTE
The simple answer would be some basic level of moderation

The free exchange of ideas can generally go on forever if there are moderators around to crack down on those that resort to personal attacks

It is a thankless job, but it generally keeps the conversation civil

Sure, but there are some practical drawbacks.

1) It's more complicated than that. It's not a simple case of personal attacks = bad, everything else is ok. For example, What kills legitimate discussion, IMHO, even moreso than personal attacks, are robotic one-liner responses to complex issues. Like "Obama is a socialist" or "You just want to spend other people's money" or "is that what your imaginary friend Jesus advocated?" These phrases are all like "And when did you stop beating your wife?" They are not compatible with actual discussion. In fact, their very purpose is to prevent actual discussion.

2) No one has time to perform that kind of moderation--the meaningful kind that would take item #1 into account. My experience is that, more often than not, the person who resorts to name-calling is not the discussion-killer. S/he is more likely just responding out of frustration to someone who has employed the strategy in item #1.

I generally just put the one-liner crowd on ignore :)

Which I will admit makes some threads hard to follow :laugh:

But when all someone can add to a discussion is "your opinion is stupid" ...or just the equivalent of "you are stupid" without adding at least a complete sentence explaining what is supposedly wrong with your argument then deleting their post is quick and constitutes a public service.

People that do not "take the hint" should be strongly encouraged to go elsewhere so the adults can have a conversation free of interruptions

What is harder to control is the constant barrage of straw man arguments crafted by people that cannot be bothered to even try to understand someone's postition

Those folks that are sooo "smart" that they just know what you meant....even if it was not at all what you said

I prefer to judge each post and each forum member and their own merits.

Billbab has consistently contradicted his own complaints of about others.  Consequently he deserves very little serious consideration IMO.

I have no problems with those who respectfully offer an opinion that differs from my own.  In fact, I actually appreciate them.  Billbab has repeatedly shown that he is either unwilling or unable to do the same.  

You reap what you sow, Billbab.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 1:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

bump

old post but I think its worth looking at it again for obvious reasons

Here is another link I found on it

But beneath the second-tier video fictions of James O’Keefe and Andrew Breitbart, and the hollow-headed
bleating of the various ozone-inhabiting creatures who will never be president like Michele Bachmann and
Palin, and even in the shadow of the disingenuous theocratic mushpile that is David Barton’s twisted view
of our history, exists a well-funded Republican netherworld of PR propagandists and marketing hucksters busy
dreaming up unethical new ways to undercut Obama and the Democrats.

One of these is Doug Goetzloe, an anti-tax right-wing talk show host and former Young Republican who heads up
Advantage Consultants. Here is the copy from one of his ads advising his conservative clients to ‘flood the
zone’ on progressive sites:

“Are you ready for a blog attack?

“Get ahead of your opponent with Professional Blog Warriors.

“Be prepared to ‘flood the zone’ with comments from professionals who are ready to put your talking points on
the blogosphere 24/7.

“Whether it's defense or offense, Advantage Consultants has a dedicated team of experienced blog warriors ready
to advance your candidate or campaign.

“Why wait for the attack? Launch your attack with a battery of blog and forum comments aimed at all media and
blog sites in your district.


http://newsin15.blogspot.com/2012....on.html


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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 1:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(N2theWild @ Sep. 27 2012, 12:26 pm)
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(GoBlueHiker @ Sep. 27 2012, 12:18 pm)
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And it works, that's the thing.  I'm not entirely convinced there aren't a couple of them around here.  Take your guesses.

Dennis the Menace

Gabby

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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 1:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Neither I or Gabby are right-wingers

Nor do we get paid to blog unlike probably you


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(TehipiteTom @ Sep. 26 2012, 11:59 pm)
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BillBab's a cheap date. Nobody needs to pay him.

^^ LOL!!! that was funny

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(cweston @ Sep. 27 2012, 12:38 pm)
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LOL--Gabby doesn't remotely fit the profile. His posts average about 2,000 words.

Another reason why I wouldn't fit the profile given that time and time again I'm blasted for making long posts


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I have little doubt that Westhiker is one. I think that we have seen waves of them, and the flag is "copy and paste" without much personal content. BB is a cheap date, but l would be worried about STD's.

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(hbfa @ Sep. 26 2012, 4:35 pm)
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Could happen.

If any of the right wingers here are in fact just, "Blog Warriors".....I would say it's been a waste of money thus far.

Not if they were hired by progressive groups for the purposes of First Amendment protected parody.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 2:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It will get worse as the mid term elections heat up, many of the worst offenders work for the right wing disruption efforts, and what they hate the most is a site that has a fairly well educated, highly articulate group with varied interests, which is just what we have at backpacker.com.

The latest addition which we have been suffering from over these past few days is very probably the first in a growing wave.

But, there is a great solution:  Hike more, fish more, take the grandkids to a waterpark more!

What motivates me to continue to dredge up real, controversial articles and news items which deal with the issues and the candidates which I support is how many more readers come here than members.

Typically, TR and Gear have the most, with TPA close behind.  Right now there are 29 active users on TPA, but a total of 176 guests on the whole site.  And only 6 members are on TPA, so we are having 23 kibitzers to these little exchanges.

Pretty cheap entertainment, if you like that kind of thing!!    :p


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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 2:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thom Hartmann used to describe how his messageboard would be overtaken by the right-wing trolls.


During the 2004 presidential election cycle, my message board at www .thomhartmann.com was really hopping, mostly
with listeners to my nationally syndicated radio show. And there were a few people who—often within minutes, always
within hours—would respond to every liberal/pro-Kerry post with Republican talking points and pro-Bush commentary.
They were reasonable, articulate, and not belligerent, so we couldn’t get rid of them. A few were actually quite
friendly and talked a lot about other issues (movies, sports, relationships, their private lives) in ways that
endeared them to our members.

After the election was over, they all vanished. Literally, the day after the election.

A few months later, one of them dropped me a private e-mail, thanking me for keeping him on the message board and
telling me that he had been paid 10 to 25 cents per post, depending on the topic and how many people read it, and
offering to do the same for me should I ever need his services to spam other people’s message boards with
pro-Hartmann-radio-show messages.


http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/3903-the-purpose-of-a-free-press

At least Thom lucked out and got "reasonable" trolls


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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 2:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

$0.25 per? Somebody owes me a lot of money....

:cool:
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 2:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"reasonable" is being willing to take money from both sides, and trying to sell the other side on your availability??  

Interesting.  Maybe you should look into a political career, where that kind of approach is both necessary and lucrative.


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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
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PostIcon Posted on: May 01 2014, 2:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey, lookee at Westhiker, the boxes are back!  That harkens back to the tools of old, lol.  I'd almost forgotten those existed. :laugh:

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