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Topic: 1st Debate: The TRUTH is badly hurting Obama.., Debate< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:28 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was worried that Obama would be able to lie and deceive his way into a win here in the first debate, because so far he's had the entire mainstream media campaigning for him for 9 months or so(who am I kidding, its been 3.75 years!)

But FINALLY, the MSM are not able to hide the stats, the facts and the truth, and now that truth is flooding out in this debate, and every stat PROVES that Obama has been terribly inneffective.

We have NOT moved forward in the past 3.75 years, and the presidents policies have made things worse. I am not the biggest Romney fan, and I agree with MANY liberal ideals, but this president HASNT gotten it done, and the MSM have corrupted the democratic process by refusing to hold him accountable for anything.... He needs to be finally held accountable, and he needs to be replaced.

One thing we are also learning here is that just about everything the left have been saying about Romney in order to make him out to be Adolf Hitler have been LIES! He isnt the bad guy they have claimed he is, and in the mean time, Obama could very well be the most corrupt and incompetent president in my life.....
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Magic underwear.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Must be a big fan of WND.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

According to Romney, his sons lie to him a lot.  Apple not falling farm the tree and all that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It was safety first for Obama. Correct way to go I think.

Pundits seem to be all over mittens, but its the Palin syndrome, low expectations for a failing campaign and anything short of a blow up would be considered a triumph.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 10:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have this thread on Romney and projection as many of you know

What also happens is that projection extends to Romney's supporters
like CharlesTheHammer.

So CharlesTheHammer will vote for Romney who is arguably the most deceitful
politician in years
but is questioning Obama's integrity


If anyone has any doubts about who is more honest or dishonest
simply look at politifacts statements by ruling on both

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/

Clearly when you look at the ruling Obama has been far far more honest and
Romney far far more dishonest.

9% of ROmney's rulings have been ruled PANTS ON FIRE

In Contrast only 1% of Obama's ruling are ruled PANTS ON FIRE

29% of politifact's ruling on Romney have been ruled either true or mostly
true

In Contrast 46% of politifact's rulings on Obama's have been ruled either true or
mostly true

42% of politifact's ruling on Romney have been ruled either Pants on Fire,
False or mostly False

In Contrast 27% of politifact's ruling on Obama have been ruled either Pants on
Fire, False or mostly False


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As for the debate

Not a clear winner. Stylistically its clear to me that Obama and his advisors
where very conscious of not being rattled. Stylistically Obama looking
down as much as he did was not good


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 03 2012, 11:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 03 2012, 11:01 pm)
QUOTE
As for the debate

Not a clear winner. Stylistically its clear to me that Obama and his advisors
where very conscious of not being rattled. Stylistically Obama looking
down as much as he did was not good

No offense, but you're kidding right?

Romney owned Barack Obama in that debate, and he pointed out(truthfully) that every stat proves that Obama's presidency has been a failure, and Obama had no answer for any of it, except to keep lying about the same issues over and over, and to look down the whole time almost.

Its not just me saying this, every poll so far has Obama losing bad, and even MSNBC had to admit he didnt look good! I watched a focus group that consisted of 10 McCain voters and 13 Obama voters, and literally 95% of them said Obama lost.

It wasnt even close, I mean has had NO answer for how bad his policies have failed. I am not a big conservative either, as I support abortion, the environment, raising taxes on people over 400K, gay marriage, etc., and I didnt vote for Bush the 2nd time around, but I am also not a blind lefty either, and just like I didnt vote for Bush the 2nd time, I sure as Heck wont be voting for Obama the 2nd time!

The fact is, he hasnt been held remotely accountable for 3.75 years, which is why he had no answers tonight. He IS NOT a good president, and he has weakened this country, so why would I vote for him again?

As far as the truth poll that someone else linked, I dont follow left wing polls, because they are not designed to be honest or accurate, they are there to vilify anyone who isnt a Dem or a Liberal, and Obama had clearly lied far more than Romney, which he did repeatedly tonight, and thats not a poll, thats the truth.

Besides, as I said in the OP, the MSM and the left have tried to vilify Romney for 1 year now, and almost all of it has been lies, exaggerations, double standards, etc. I dont fall for that stuff, I used to, but not anymore, and I would recommend people look a little deeper into BOTH sides, and not believe everything you hear from the MSM. There is a reason they are one of the least trusted professions!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 12:15 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

No offense, but you're kidding right?

Romney owned Barack Obama in that debate, and he pointed out(truthfully) that every stat proves
that Obama's presidency has been a failure, and Obama had no answer for any of it, except to keep
lying about the same issues over and over, and to look down the whole time almost.


^^ See there it is

See you're like a lot of right-wingers. You think you can just make assertions and that the
assertion itself is the proof. Please point out specifically what supports your statement that
every stat proves that Obama's presidency has been a failure, and Obama had no answer for
any of it, except to keep lying about the same issues over and over,
?

And keep in mind your supporting the guy who lied over and over about "Obamacare" being
"government-run healthcare", the guy who continues to lie about Obama taking away the
welfare requirement, the guy who ran an add that quoted Obama saying "we shouldn't
talk about the economy" but took out the part where its clear Obama was quoting
McCain and on and on and on.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Its not just me saying this, every poll so far has Obama losing bad, and even MSNBC had to admit
he didnt look good! I watched a focus group that consisted of 10 McCain voters and 13 Obama voters,
and literally 95% of them said Obama lost.


Now you're changing the subject. Losing is one thing but to say  every stat proves
that Obama's presidency has been a failure, and Obama had no answer for any of it, except
to keep lying about the same issues over and over,
?

Cite any poll where people were asked(and agreed) that Romney used states to prove
that Obama's presidency has been a failure, and Obama had no answer for any of it, except
to keep lying about the same issues over and over,
?

Looking not good is not proof of every stat proves that Obama's presidency has been a
failure, and Obama had no answer for any of it, except to keep lying about the same issues
over and over,
?

Oh and as far as what the pundits say

See this
http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....1160517

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

It wasnt even close, I mean has had NO answer for how bad his policies have failed.


because Obama and countless other disagree with your extreme partisan premise that
his policies have failed.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

I am not abig conservative either, as I support abortion, the environment, raising taxes on people over
400K, gay marriage, etc., and I didnt vote for Bush the 2nd time around, but I am also not a
blind lefty either, and just like I didnt vote for Bush the 2nd time, I sure as Heck wont be
voting for Obama the 2nd time!


You don't have enough posting history to confirm what you are politically although everything so
far indicates your a flaming right-winger. Yes its a common tactic among right-wingers(especially
the ones that don't post often) to claim they are much more moderate than they actually are
in order to give themselves more credibility

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

The fact is, he hasnt been held remotely accountable for 3.75 years, which is why he had no answers
[/quote

See this pure BS. So Republican filibustering him isn't holding him accountable(going way overboard)
and his lengthy responses on health care are considered "No answers".   Pure partisan BS

CharlesTheHammer said
[quote]
tonight. He IS NOT a good president, and he has weakened this country, so why would I vote for him again?


You haven't posted in this forum much. You think you can make such statements without it being challenged?

Tell us specifically why he IS NOT a good president and why he has weakened this country,?

I will vote for Obama for many reasons not because he is a great president or even a good one(in past
threads I said I would give him a C+ or B-) but the alternative would given power to someone of
a party that has gone way way over the right and the thought this party could win the presidency
and both houses scares the sh*t out of me,

But please back up your statement He IS NOT a good president, and he has weakened this country?

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

As far as the truth poll that someone else linked, I dont follow left wing polls, because they are not
designed to be honest or accurate, they are there to vilify anyone who isnt a Dem or a Liberal, and
Obama had clearly lied far more than Romney, which he did repeatedly tonight, and thats not a poll, thats the truth.


Dude. Stop BS about yourself. With a response like that you're clearly Hard right. I mean what
I posted wasn't a "poll". It was from a reputable fact checking site ranking statemets on
their veracity.

Furthermore what you're essentially saying is that you will not listen to anything that doesn't
conform to what you want to believe and you attempt to justify that by labeling anything that
contradicts what you want to believe as "Dem or a Liberal"? You're trying to justify willful
ignorance.

You claim Obama has lied but haven't nor will you cite anything specific but of course
you still confidently say "Obama had clearly lied far more than Romney, which he did repeatedly
tonight, and thats not a poll, thats the truth."

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Besides, as I said in the OP, the MSM and the left have tried to vilify Romney for 1 year now,
and almost all of it has been lies, exaggerations, double standards, etc. I dont fall for that stuff,
I used to, but not anymore, and I would recommend people look a little deeper into BOTH sides, and
not believe everything you hear from the MSM. There is a reason they are one of the least trusted professions!


You haven't cited ONE example of a lie or double standard. All you're doing is promulgating these
tiresome right-wing narratives about the media and so on.

Give us some specifics based on facts using respected and reliable sources.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 12:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Mitt clearly had better hair. Not so much content. I'm with Politifact, the there is a lot of bull in this campaign but very little veracity out of the guy with the perfect hair.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's some "truth".

"Romney flatly disputed that number. "First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut," he said.

Who's right? The Washington Post's Fact Checker says the facts on this one are on Obama's side. The New York Times notes that Romney "has proposed cutting all marginal tax rates by 20 percent — which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion.*"

FactCheck.org has weighed in too, tweeting during the debate that "Romney says he will pay for $5T tax cut without raising deficit or raising taxes on middle class. Experts say that's not possible.""

* Pesky elitist arithmetic!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm watching the debate a second time I think its pretty clear
that Obama looking down so often is the single specific thing
that hurt him the most.

It would be interesting to poll people who saw the debate on TV
as opposed to just radio. I suspect that the difference would
be similar to the difference in the way people saw Kennedy vs
Nixon in the debates in 1960.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 4:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Romney did a good job of attacking the President. Obama kept his cool and simply answered questions and stated facts. He does have nearly 4 years of improving economy to stand on after inheriting the Bush chit storm.
What new was revealed about Romney?  He is still a mystery man to the average voter. He skated around questions on Medicare and his 5 Trillion dollar tax cut plans. What did we learn about Romney's future plans tonight?  Well other than he wants to fire Big Bird not much.
Unless Romney comes forward with more about his plans why even continue the debate schedule. The Romney attack won't go as smoothly next time. You'll see Obama strike back in coming debates. He is a better debater than he displayed tonight. The president has not lost one vote to Romney, that's for certain. Romney simply has ignighted the right wing by going on the attack and feeding their hate for Obama. The 47% will still be backing the president. The undecideds are who really matter. Many I'm sure are still waiting for Mitt to reveal his plan. Mitt isn't as likable or as trustworthy as John McCain. The President beat McCain, who I consider a great American. The right wing shouldn't get their hopes up too high based on this one debate. Can't wait to see Big Bird campaigning for Obama.
I'm just a spectator in these debates, Gary Johnson already has my vote.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 6:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

4 years of an improving economy?

Wow, you sure give Obama a free pass don't you.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 7:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bateauxdriver
QUOTE
Unless Romney comes forward with more about his plans why even continue the debate schedule.


I can't help but think that Obama's strategy was to give Romney more rope to hang himself with too. Obama kept prodding for more specifics and concentrated on minimizing his attacks on Romney. I think this was Obama's strategy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 7:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The one thing the MSM always wants in a presidential race is a close horserace. That keeps interest up among the vast majority of the public who are not political junkies, and keeps them tuning in.

To suggest that the MSM is working for Obama's benefit is ridiculous. The MSM is working for their own benefit, as always. Right now, it's in their interest to portray this as a close race; Romney as a viable challenger.
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 04 2012, 1:29 am)
QUOTE
Here's some "truth".

"Romney flatly disputed that number. "First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut," he said.

Who's right? The Washington Post's Fact Checker says the facts on this one are on Obama's side. The New York Times notes that Romney "has proposed cutting all marginal tax rates by 20 percent — which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion.*"

FactCheck.org has weighed in too, tweeting during the debate that "Romney says he will pay for $5T tax cut without raising deficit or raising taxes on middle class. Experts say that's not possible.""

* Pesky elitist arithmetic!

Selective " truth" at best

His proposed changes to the rates would be in conjunction with limits on deductions


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 8:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Oct. 03 2012, 10:46 pm)
QUOTE
According to Romney, his sons lie to him a lot.  Apple not falling farm the tree and all that.

Another thing little kids do is to claim the other guy must have cheated when they lose  :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 8:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This isn't going to be the triumph the GOP have desperately been looking for. The message being pushed by mittens is a failure. You will find this has less effect on voters that you're hoping for. It may even solidify votes for Obama.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You're only as good as your last debate. I feel Obama is setting him up for the last debate when he will unleash his inner big bird and woop up on Mitch.

The only person who lost was Jim. Poor Jim.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Romney definitely won the debate, based on demeanor, energy, confidence, delivery, etc.  He looked  happy to be there and Obama loooked like he just wanted out of the building.

Ths mornings polls will probably show a bump for Romney.

But, I think the bump will be temporary, because Romney (and Obama, too, for that matter) gave very little specifics about what he'd do, other than repeal a healthcare plan he fathered.

Most voters are, I think, going to remain suspicious of who Romney really is, what he stands for, who he will champion and voters will stick with the known Obama, even if they are not real happy with him.


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(Old Frank @ Oct. 04 2012, 9:05 am)
QUOTE
Romney definitely won the debate, based on demeanor, energy, confidence, delivery, etc.  He looked  happy to be there and Obama loooked like he just wanted out of the building.

Ths mornings polls will probably show a bump for Romney.

But, I think the bump will be temporary, because Romney (and Obama, too, for that matter) gave very little specifics about what he'd do, other than repeal a healthcare plan he fathered.

Most voters are, I think, going to remain suspicious of who Romney really is, what he stands for, who he will champion and voters will stick with the known Obama, even if they are not real happy with him.

I think you're right frank. Given his differences between what he has said in the past and what he said last night mittens has a real credibility problem. I'm not even sure you'll see that bump. I may well be wrong on that, but I agree at best it will be temporary.

It wouldn't surprise me if the dems have other video on mitt at well, given has safe Obama's approach was. Last night was all about no screw ups.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Oct. 04 2012, 5:23 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 04 2012, 1:29 am)
QUOTE
Here's some "truth".

"Romney flatly disputed that number. "First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut," he said.

Who's right? The Washington Post's Fact Checker says the facts on this one are on Obama's side. The New York Times notes that Romney "has proposed cutting all marginal tax rates by 20 percent — which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion.*"

FactCheck.org has weighed in too, tweeting during the debate that "Romney says he will pay for $5T tax cut without raising deficit or raising taxes on middle class. Experts say that's not possible.""

* Pesky elitist arithmetic!

Selective " truth" at best

His proposed changes to the rates would be in conjunction with limits on deductions

Then why doesn't he specify those mystery deductions?

Because, in the words of his Vice President candidate, he doesn't have the math?

Or in he words of President Obama last night because they're just TOO good?

Somehow a guy with the elevator for his car doesn't strike me as the shy type so I'm going to go with Ryan.

And he doesn't seem to understand (or trust?) his own so called plan because he straight up stated his "plan" doesn't have a 5 trillion dollar tax cut, yet his stated 20 % across the board cut arithmetics to just that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

DTM
QUOTE
42% of politifact's ruling on Romney have been ruled either Pants on Fire,
False or mostly False

In Contrast 27% of politifact's ruling on Obama have been ruled either Pants on
Fire, False or mostly False


AKA "Yeah, my guy lies LESS! SUCK IT!"


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Then why doesn't he specify those mystery deductions?

Because, in the words of his Vice President candidate, he doesn't have he math?

Or in he words of President Obama last night because they're just TOO good?


He explained that, you set your objectives, and you work with congress to achieve those objectives.
There is plenty of problems with Romney, however he was spot on about how an executive should opperate. His quip was planned, he was waiting for Obama to give him a chance to use it. If it is harped on, he will correctly keep using it. Obama should focus on the real problems with Romney, not keep saying "Show me"


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Oct. 04 2012, 6:44 am)
QUOTE
4 years of an improving economy?

Wow, you sure give Obama a free pass don't you.

4 years of an improving economy?

Wow, you sure give Obama a free pass don't you.

I base it on the fact that my 401k has doubled. If you had the money to invest after the Bush meltdown it has paid off under Obama. There are more jobs now in Louisiana where I live than anytime in my 44 years here. The Gulf Coast economy is booming. Not sure about where you live.

We Liberterians want the old and dying GOP. If we deny them the White House long enough maybe we can take it and change it into a small government party or extract it's moderates and build our party from them.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(kyle2193 @ Oct. 04 2012, 6:46 am)
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Then why doesn't he specify those mystery deductions?

Because, in the words of his Vice President candidate, he doesn't have he math?

Or in he words of President Obama last night because they're just TOO good?


He explained that, you set your objectives, and you work with congress to achieve those objectives.
There is plenty of problems with Romney, however he was spot on about how an executive should opperate. His quip was planned, he was waiting for Obama to give him a chance to use it. If it is harped on, he will correctly keep using it. Obama should focus on the real problems with Romney, not keep saying "Show me"

So "trust the etch a sketch"?

No thank you.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Apparently Bateauxdriver speaks for the libertarian party and his immediate area = all of America.

I'm learning new things every day.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 9:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 04 2012, 9:53 am)
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So "trust the etch a sketch"?

No thank you.

There is actually nothing Romney could do to get your vote, so your approval is pretty pointless. However, his answer to that point is correct.
Reagan did that, Clinton did that, it works.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 10:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Reagan beat two of the weakest opponents ever to take the debate Podium. Bill Clinton had the Ross Perot effect.
Romney has collected about all the votes he will gain.  Not enough.
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