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Topic: Here's the proof of voter fraud committed by Dems, Voter ID/We need it!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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CharlesTheHammer Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:42 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Read this page linked below, and feel free to look up the names or politicians or people or organizations listed here, as many of them have already been convicted of major voter fraud!

There are several tactics, like allowing illegal, voters to vote, intentionally registering felons and lying to them by telling them that they are now allowed to vote, and sending them to polls, or voting in the names of people who actually didnt vote, etc.

There are MANY examples here, and and the names are there too, so feel free to look it up! This is proof of why we NEED Picture ID's in every state, and why even Dems have changed these laws 'in the past' to make ID's mandatory in their states!

But mostly, this proves WHY today's unaccountable  Dems and the elite left want no ID's, because they know that this type of fraud benefits their party!


http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA635.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gee how did the entire state of Pennsylvania miss this?

Maybe because voter impersonation wasn't found?

Yep that's it. Absentee ballot fraud? Just how does requiring a photo ID at the polling place address THAT? Hint:. it doesn't. Neither does a photo ID polling place voter requirement do anything for voter registration violations.

In sum? FAIL.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh yes, a published letter from the very right-leaning National Center for Public Policy...that ought to prove...well....nothing.

If you expect anyone to take your sources seriously, you might begin with one that doesn't use quotes on a paraphrase.

"Don't worry," they essentially said, "just register and we'll take care of the legalities." - Yeah, I'm sure that's what they essentially said...


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


The National Center for Public Policy Research, founded in 1982, is a self-described conservative think tank in the United States. Its president since its founding has been Amy Ridenour. David A. Ridenour, her husband, is vice president, and David W. Almasi is executive director. Key staff include Caroline May, who oversees environmental programs, and Ryan Balis, who oversees United Nations studies. Dana Joel Gattuso, Council Nedd II, R.J. Smith, Deroy Murdock and Bonner Cohen are among those who frequently speak or publish under the NCPPR banner as senior/distinguished fellows.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....esearch

Find a credible source like factcheck.org or the Washington Post


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 1:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible
evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of
individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that
they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004
gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter
fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly
closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National
Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as
often.



http://www.brennancenter.org/content....r_fraud


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 2:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Only 10 cases of in person voter fraud since 2000

http://www.politifact.com/georgia....nomenon


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 2:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the
Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections,
according to court records and interviews.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007....ll&_r=0


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 2:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 04 2012, 10:42 am)
QUOTE
Read this page linked below, and feel free to look up the names or politicians or people or organizations listed here, as many of them have already been convicted of major voter fraud!

There are several tactics, like allowing illegal, voters to vote, intentionally registering felons and lying to them by telling them that they are now allowed to vote, and sending them to polls, or voting in the names of people who actually didnt vote, etc.

There are MANY examples here, and and the names are there too, so feel free to look it up! This is proof of why we NEED Picture ID's in every state, and why even Dems have changed these laws 'in the past' to make ID's mandatory in their states!

But mostly, this proves WHY today's unaccountable  Dems and the elite left want no ID's, because they know that this type of fraud benefits their party!


http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA635.html

That's a pretty laughable attempt at that link. For example: "According to reports, most of those [38] cases have resulted in convictions..."  Erm...according to reports?  Either they were convicted or they weren't, and if they were you can look it up.  You don't have to rely on "reports".

But I do want to highlight this bit:

QUOTE
The Virginia scandal comes close on the heels of the voter fraud trials in upstate New York, where Democratic county elections officers and city councilmen from the town of Troy stand trial for absentee-ballot fraud. [emphasis added]

As I've said repeatedly, large-scale consequential election fraud is possible only with the complicity of election officials.  Look it up, if you don't believe me.

Who enforces voter ID laws?  Election officials.  Who checks ID at the poll?  Election officials.  

So how does a law aimed at the effectively non-existent pseudo-problem of in-person voter fraud make the system any safer from tampering by the people who are actually in a position to screw with elections?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


HARRISBURG -- State attorneys defending the new voter ID law at a hearing beginning Wednesday
will present no evidence that in-person electoral fraud is likely to occur this November
without the law, according to a document signed earlier this month.


http://www.post-gazette.com/stories....M3iryn1


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 2:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The title that says voter fraud committed by Dems is in particular laughable

http://www.nytimes.com/2012....ted=all

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72450.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501263_162-2793560-501263.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 04 2012, 1:46 pm)
QUOTE
Gee how did the entire state of Pennsylvania miss this?

Maybe because voter impersonation wasn't found?

Yep that's it. Absentee ballot fraud? Just how does requiring a photo ID at the polling place address THAT? Hint:. it doesn't. Neither does a photo ID polling place voter requirement do anything for voter registration violations.

In sum? FAIL.

I thought this would be very simple to understand,  but I'll have to explain it again.

You didnt read the post or the linked article, which is what I figured might happens, as some people simply will refuse to see whats right in front of them because its goes against their FAITH, and at this point, this blind support of Dems and liberal ideology is FAITH based.

Without ID"s, people can go and vote illegally! I dont care if you continue to claim that voter fraud is completely nonexistent, because thats not true!

There is also no proof of any significant voter oppression or suppression in ANY state where its already law! So why would many Dems agree to put these laws into place in many other states if there was absolutely no such thing as voter fraud as you keep suggesting? Were they racists?

Explain that^

In that article it explains how voter fraud was committed by illegally putting in votes for people who didnt really show up to vote in the first place! If you had voter ID, and you had workers who could check off those voters as they come in and show their ID's, it would be impossible for someone to fake votes under the names of people who didnt show up, unless you had everyone at the polling place corrupted as well!

It sounds like many Libs want zero checks and balances, and instead they seem to want a free for all, where anything goes, and there's no accountability! Sounds like the same standards for the Dem party and MSM...HMMM
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 04 2012, 2:11 pm)
QUOTE

Wow, thats flaming hypocrisy right there!

You accuse me of using biased sources, and say that they are "completely unreliable" simply because they are conservative, yet then you use left or far left wing sources that have more credibility problems than the source I linked to!

New York Times and CBS News huh, where's MSNBC?


To: TehipiteTom: You say that source is laughable, yet you dont disprove or even bother to look up the names of Dems who were caught committing voter fraud, yet you automatically assume it must not be true.

Thanks for that, you have actually helped make a more important broader point, that many Libs simply refuse to even consider the idea that every Dems isnt the incorruptible champion of the people that they believe them to be. This is the exact mindset that has led to a completely unaccountable political party.

But the question is, even if it was proven to you beyond ANY shadow of a doubt, would even believe it then? I used to be like that( because I used to believe the MSM propaganda) and I finally learned to be more scientific minded, instead of blindly believing in one political party with religious zeal....
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 4:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 04 2012, 4:04 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 04 2012, 2:11 pm)
QUOTE

Wow, thats flaming hypocrisy right there!

You accuse me of using biased sources, and say that they are "completely unreliable" simply because they are conservative, yet then you use left or far left wing sources that have more credibility problems than the source I linked to!

New York Times and CBS News huh, where's MSNBC?

You're so brainwashed from listening to right-wing media that you've barfed up this
mind boggling narrative that anything that doesn't conform to your right-wing views
must be "left or far left".

The idea that any of those sources are "left or far left" is absurd.

I tell you what. Prove that any of those sources I've used are "left or far left".

Just don't use talking points. Prove it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 4:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

I thought this would be very simple to understand,  but I'll have to explain it again.

You didnt read the post or the linked article, which is what I figured might happens, as
some people simply will refuse to see whats right in front of them because its goes against
their FAITH, and at this point, this blind support of Dems and liberal ideology is FAITH
based.


The own that seems to be barfing up their beliefs based on FAITH is YOU. I've given
documentation after documentation where as you've been recycling right-wing slogans/talking
points/narratives without ANY evidence until you started this thread but here your evidence
is, surprise surprise, the typical right-wing partisan nonsense

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Without ID"s, people can go and vote illegally! I dont care if you continue to claim that
voter fraud is completely nonexistent, because thats not true!


No one is saying no one should vote with some kind of ID. People ALWAYS HAVE VOTED WITH
SOME KIND OF ID. The kind of ID that people like you are asking for just so happens to
be the kind of ID that Students, the poor,elderly etc.. are less likely to have and
those people tend to vote Democratic surprise surprise.

Oh and BTW, Do you know Republicans have been, in some states, trying to NOT include student
PHOTO ID's as a legitimate form of ID. Now why do you think that would be the case?

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

There is also no proof of any significant voter oppression or suppression in ANY state where
its already law!


"its already law!"

When what is "already law"? We are talking about the NEW voter ID laws Republicans have been
trying to pass

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

So why would many Dems agree to put these laws into place in many other states if there was
absolutely no such thing as voter fraud as you keep suggesting?


The voter ID's laws that have been pushed for lately have been pushed by Republicans not
Democrats

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Were they racists?

Explain that^


I've been on record as saying what motivates these voter suppression laws is politics(lower
the # of voters likely to vote for Democrats) but not racism. I know some(or at least one on
this forum) feels differently


I will end by saying this isn't a situation where there is ONLY a win win situation. The
cost of preventing the virtually non-existent voter fraud allegations come with the much
more expensive cost of preventing many more legitimate American citizens from voting


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 4:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Um, OK... so if we can dig up a couple of cases of *republicans* convicted of illegal firearms charges, that would justify stricter gun-control laws, right?   :;):

Here's the thing.  If there's voter fraud, you can and certainly should prosecute the perpetrators and punish them.  I'm not against the concept of using ID's to confirm that the voter is, in fact, the person they say they are.  But to enforce the voter ID law would, in effect, presume that you're *not* that person if you can't produce that "valid" ID and you would be denied your right to vote.  That's problematic for me.  Imo, the risk of voter fraud has to be clearly greater than the risk of someone being denied their right to vote.  I don't think it is and, more importantly, nor did the PA court.

If a state is that worried about voter fraud, then it needs to take real but reasonable steps that will confirm eligibility of voters WITHOUT infringing on the right to vote and, at the same time, take steps to ensure that eligible voters do, in fact, have access to the polls.  Passing a law in March right before a presidential election that leaves no leeway for those voters who don't have the appropriate ID isn't the right way, imo.

We have a voter ID law here in Michigan but, if you don't have the right kind of ID, you're required to sign an affidavit stating that fact.  You can do this right at the polls.  This way, the state has a record of those people who have not been able to get the necessary ID and can take steps to correct the situation.

Note that the PA court only ruled that PA's voter ID can't be enforced for this election because not enough ID's have been issued by the state.  It has decided (rightly, I think) that protecting the right to vote has to have priority.

However you slice it, it is still the RIGHT to vote, not a "privilege" like driving or cashing a check.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 04 2012, 5:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 04 2012, 12:41 pm)
QUOTE
You didnt read the post or the linked article, which is what I figured might happens, as some people simply will refuse to see whats right in front of them because its goes against their FAITH, and at this point, this blind support of Dems and liberal ideology is FAITH based.

Without ID"s, people can go and vote illegally! I dont care if you continue to claim that voter fraud is completely nonexistent, because thats not true!

Actually, I'm fairly certain you didn't read it--or at least, you didn't check the sources, which is just as bad as not reading it in the first place.  

Those cases in Virginia? Well, it turns out:

QUOTE
The majority of cases reviewed by The Times-Dispatch that resulted in arrests in central Virginia involved felons who either illegally registered to vote or who illegally voted in the general election, or both. Felons cannot vote in Virginia unless their rights are restored by the governor.

None of the cases appeared to involve someone who misrepresented his or her identity at the polls to vote. [emphasis added]


Troy, NY?  That's fraud committed by election officials (as noted above).  Also, too: absentee ballots.  

Those 5,000 non-citizen voters in Colorado? Not so much.

Those 64,000 cases in New Mexico?  That piece cites unsupported allegations from the right-wing Daily Caller; when you track down a legitimate source, those allegationsfall apart.  

I could go on, but I figure you get the picture: none of those sources provide any support for the claim that in-person false-identity voter fraud (the only kind that voter ID laws could possibly prevent) is a problem at all.

Next time? If you don't want to look like an ignorant assclown, wise up and check your sources before claiming they support your uninformed rants.

ETA: Somehow I missed this (maybe you added it on edit?):


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 04 2012, 1:04 pm)
QUOTE
To: TehipiteTom: You say that source is laughable, yet you dont disprove or even bother to look up the names of Dems who were caught committing voter fraud, yet you automatically assume it must not be true.
Sadly, no: I wasn't assuming anything.  I initially called the piece "laughable" based on the way it was written (inflammatory language backed by weaselly insinuations), and I pointed out that a passage quoted in the piece itself didn't actually support the case for voter ID laws.

Be that as it may, in this post I obviously go into a lot more detail, which only strengthens my initial conclusion: the piece, and anyone who cites it, is a joke.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2012, 10:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Actually, don't both sides think our election system is seriously flawed? The right wants to blame the voters, I'm giving the machines the stink eye (scanners AND touchscreens), others are blaming the election officials. But all in all, can we agree that something is WRONG?

We have a big problem, and a short time to fix it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 07 2012, 10:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 04 2012, 4:04 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 04 2012, 2:11 pm)
QUOTE

Wow, thats flaming hypocrisy right there!

You accuse me of using biased sources, and say that they are "completely unreliable" simply because they are conservative, yet then you use left or far left wing sources that have more credibility problems than the source I linked to!

New York Times and CBS News huh, where's MSNBC?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 08 2012, 7:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I know why he has the word 'hammer' in his name.

Cuz every time he posts, he gets his arse nailed to the wall.

LuTz


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(Raznation @ Oct. 08 2012, 4:00 am)
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I know why he has the word 'hammer' in his name.

Cuz every time he posts, he gets his arse nailed to the wall.

LuTz

That, or he's calling himself a tool.  Just to beat everyone else to it, I assume.

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