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Topic: Is there funny business with the new job numbers?, Fudged unemployment numbers?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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CharlesTheHammer Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:30 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ALL the economists have predicted another anemic unemployment report of around 80,000-90,000 new jobs, when we need several times that number just to begin to get back to where we need to be.

Then Obama loses the debate even in the opinions of pretty much every Liberal news network and publication, and just 2 days later, we suddenly get what is literally the biggest job improvement in 29 years reported to us by the same gov't that Obama controls.

They suddenly claim 870,000 new jobs this month. But the numbers dont bear it out, and many seasoned economists and experts are questioning this report and the "convenient" fact that it conveniently brings the unemployment rate down to where it is 'allegedly' just .1 point below where it was when he got into office!

But it doesnt bear out because the total job numbers plus the numbers of the "marginally employed", which are people with part time jobs of as little as 1 hour per week of employment remained the same!

In other words, aside from the new employment numbers, Obama's federal gov't has been counting low hour part time jobs as "real" jobs. These can be as little as 1 hour per week. Can anyone really support themselves or their families on 1-10 hours per week? No....

Also, the so called unemployment reports DONT count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job. That has been good for Obama, because there have been many months where many hundreds of thousands of people simply left the market, and that caused the employment number to drop giving a FALSE impression that things have gotten better, and every time this has happened the Dems have buried it and claimed victory!

If you ask yourself "could Obama lie about this and fabricate job numbers? Well, they've been lying about the middle east situation for weeks now, and they've now been busted as its proven this wasnt a sudden spontaneous attack on our facilities, it was a planned terrorist attack. Also they have lied by claiming there was NO earlier warning that this was going to happen, and that been repeatedly dis proven too!


I wish the unemployment number would go down to .0001%, but I dont believe for a second that 870,000 new jobs were created last month, just 2 days after Obama lost a major debate!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You are a fool

Is there not just one right-wing talking point that you haven't barfed up?

Is there not one absurdity from the right that you haven't barfed up?

What do you listen to FOX and right-wing radio all day?

Surprise surprise you haven't even provided a link


Oh and you continue to claim Obama has lied and yet still haven't provided
ANYTHING to prove that assertion


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh and you keep saying this


Also, the so called unemployment reports DON'T count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job.


That is the way the unemployment has been counted FOR YEARS INCLUDING
UNDER YOUR GUY BUSH which would mean by that standard, the unemployment
rate way higher under your guy as well


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Time for Charles to hammer himself out a tinfoil hat.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 9:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This particular talking point, surprise surprise, just happens to be all the
rage on FOX and other right-wing media. I don't think its any coincidence
that CTH just happens to barf up this talking point just like he just happens
to barf up all these other right-wing talking points(Like the "Acorn" talking
point)


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So if McCain was president, and just 2 days after he lost a major debate, we get these employment numbers that are 10 times higher than what every economist predicted, you ALL wouldnt be right here saying that something doesnt smell right?

^^I think we all know the answer to that question! You'd be RIGHT for questioning it too, but you're biases are preventing you from questioning Obama's record, which by any reasonable means is a failure.

Honestly, I am not an ideolog of either side, so dont mind being called names by ideologs, but what I wont do is fall for the "Hope and Change" nonsense that 'many' are falling for yet again! If a candidate does a bad job, then I wont vote for him. That seems less foolish to me than voting for someone who HAS done a bad job!

Besides, you cant have it both ways! You libs have been claiming that Romney is "too liberal as a Republican" for years, yet now you want to claim he is hard core right wing extremist! You hammered the guy for providing a health insurance for the poor in Mass, saying he's a flip flopper because he gave the people there a BETTER policy than Obamacare, now you claim he hates the poor, and wont do anything for them! Contradictions, contradictions!

Oh, here's the truth that Obama lied about the terrorist attacks...

Here's a liberal source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politic....7240933

#2 Lied about Romney's tax plan!: Halfway down the page

http://politics.heraldtribune.com/2012....claims-
stack-up/
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bull

If it was that easy to subvert career pros at the  bureau they'd have done it years go rather than keep getting beat up by the  League of Perpetual Whiners who keep squealing for a Daddy President.

It will be noted that rather than be cheered that more fellow Americans have found employment this good news is seen as a problem to be lied away. Much like Barack Hussein Obama simply must be Kenyan.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:40 pm)
QUOTE
Oh and you keep saying this


Also, the so called unemployment reports DON'T count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job.


That is the way the unemployment has been counted FOR YEARS INCLUDING
UNDER YOUR GUY BUSH which would mean by that standard, the unemployment
rate way higher under your guy as well

You missed the whole point. Bush didnt LIE about the fact that people who leave the job market will skew the numbers in a deceptive way, yet Obama and the Dems have deceived people about this for years now! With the help of their friends at the MSM.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 05 2012, 10:41 pm)
QUOTE
Bull

If it was that easy to subvert career pros at the  bureau they'd have done it years go rather than keep getting beat up by the  League of Perpetual Whiners who keep squealing for a Daddy President.

It will be noted that rather than be cheered that more fellow Americans have found employment this good news is seen as a problem to be lied away. Much like Barack Hussein Obama simply must be Kenyan.

Please dont put words in my mouth. I never said Obama wasnt born in America. He was BORN IN HAWAII. Last I checked, that was a US state.

Its funny though, that the left will make a big deal about people who simply ask for documents, yet many(most) Libs constantly made all sorts of bogus claims about Bush(who I dont like btw), and still make all sorts of bogus claims about Romney, like this ridiculous double standard claiming that ONLY the Rep's must show tax reports BEYOND what is required by law! But not Democrats, oh no!! Not Obama even though he was involved in questionable real estate deals with Tony Resko a convicted, jailed felon!

You didnt ask for "extra" tax reports from Kerry, even though he is worth about 10-20 times what Romney is worth! Even though he worked to avoid taxes by moving yachts, money to other places, just like MOST wealthy people do, including the Clintons who have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the Caymans alone!

But they get passes!

Oh, yeah, and I'm the fool for wanting BOTH parties to be held accountable when they REALLY do something wrong!

Oy Vey!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 10:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:30 pm)
QUOTE
ALL the economists have predicted another anemic unemployment report of around 80,000-90,000 new jobs, when we need several times that number just to begin to get back to where we need to be.

Then Obama loses the debate even in the opinions of pretty much every Liberal news network and publication, and just 2 days later, we suddenly get what is literally the biggest job improvement in 29 years reported to us by the same gov't that Obama controls.

They suddenly claim 870,000 new jobs this month. But the numbers dont bear it out, and many seasoned economists and experts are questioning this report and the "convenient" fact that it conveniently brings the unemployment rate down to where it is 'allegedly' just .1 point below where it was when he got into office!

But it doesnt bear out because the total job numbers plus the numbers of the "marginally employed", which are people with part time jobs of as little as 1 hour per week of employment remained the same!

In other words, aside from the new employment numbers, Obama's federal gov't has been counting low hour part time jobs as "real" jobs. These can be as little as 1 hour per week. Can anyone really support themselves or their families on 1-10 hours per week? No....

Also, the so called unemployment reports DONT count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job. That has been good for Obama, because there have been many months where many hundreds of thousands of people simply left the market, and that caused the employment number to drop giving a FALSE impression that things have gotten better, and every time this has happened the Dems have buried it and claimed victory!

If you ask yourself "could Obama lie about this and fabricate job numbers? Well, they've been lying about the middle east situation for weeks now, and they've now been busted as its proven this wasnt a sudden spontaneous attack on our facilities, it was a planned terrorist attack. Also they have lied by claiming there was NO earlier warning that this was going to happen, and that been repeatedly dis proven too!


I wish the unemployment number would go down to .0001%, but I dont believe for a second that 870,000 new jobs were created last month, just 2 days after Obama lost a major debate!

Do you have an original thought?

http://money.cnn.com/2012....t=hp_t2
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
As everybody now knows, Jack Welch, the former chairman General Electric instantly tweeted, “Unbelievable jobs numbers…these Chicago guys will do anything..can’t debate so change numbers.”  Welch has 1.3 million followers on Twitter, and, as Media Matters reported later in the day, Welch’s unsubstantiated charges were echoed by Rush Limbaugh at least seven conservative reporters on Fox News and elsewhere.

So why was one of the most iconic CEOs in American history alleging that the Obama administration had conspired to falsify the numbers just before the election?

The answer can be traced back more than thirteen years to the party boss who is always working his magic behind the scenes: Karl Christian Rove.


Here’s what happened: According to an article by David Podvin and Carolyn Kay, in June 1999, just after George W. Bush declared his candidacy for president, Welch, then Chairman and CEO of General Electric, the parent company of NBC, was contacted by Karl Rove who reportedly told him that a Bush administration would introduce sweeping deregulatory measures in the broadcast industry that would create untold billions of dollars in additional profits for GE.

Welch not only became a vocal supporter of Bush, he also decided that the news division of NBC would to put aside its journalistic integrity and instead look out for the corporate interests of GE and do everything in its powers to elect Bush. According to a report by Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles) cited in the Los Angeles Times, come election time, November 7, 2000, Welch had access to raw election data that were not available to his own newsmen at NBC and appeared to play a key role in getting NBC to call Florida, and with it, the national election, for George W. Bush at

almost the same time, John Ellis—George W. Bush’s cousin and Fox News’ senior decision desk official—made the call for Fox.

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/06/is_jack_welch_working_for_karl_rove/




Wonder if right wingers ever grow tired of being minions?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 7:51 pm)
QUOTE
You didnt ask for "extra" tax reports from Kerry, even though he is worth about 10-20 times what Romney is worth!

We didn't have to.  By the time he ran for president in 2004, he had made 20 years of his tax returns public.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Part of the 870,000 is a seasonal part-time boost of 579,000 jobs reported by workers in the survey.

Just like what has happened the last 2 Septembers (which incidentally were also reported in Octobers, which came just before Novembers)

Seasonal part-time increases:

Sep 2012 - 579,000
Sep 2011 - 483,000
Sep 2010 - 582,000


You could argue that including seasonal part-time summer work is not that relevant.  That would make sense.  But you certainly could not argue that it is a practice unique to October of 2012.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

So if McCain was president, and just 2 days after he lost a major debate, we get these employment
numbers that are 10 times higher than what every economist predicted, you ALL wouldnt be right
here saying that something doesnt smell right


First of all. Incumbent president's losing their first debate IS THE NORM during the televison age
(5 out of the 6 first  debates with an incumbent president during the television age resulted in a
debate loss for the  incumbent president). Second  this isn't a huge increase in job #'s. There
already have been bigger jumps in the unemployment rate like this one

The jobless rate, which is the percentage of workers who report that they are looking for work
but cannot find it, dropped from 9.8% in November to 9.4% in December, the lowest since May 2009.


http://articles.latimes.com/2011....0110108

was that some sort of conspiracy involved with this?

The idea that some kind of conspiracy was involved in this is beyond absurd.

I just watched a segment from Ezra Klein and he went into great detail on the
kind of security measures that are involved at it was really something else.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Honestly, I am not an ideolog of either side, so dont mind being called names by ideologs, but what I wont do is fall for the "Hope and Change" nonsense that 'many' are falling for yet again! If a candidate does a bad job, then I wont vote for him. That seems less foolish to me than voting for someone who HAS done a bad job!


Oh please. Then explain why since posting you've done nothing but barf up the most popular
talking points from the right? You don't think I know that what you're claiming just happens
to be a really really popular talking point on FOX and other conservative sources right nwo?

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Besides, you cant have it both ways! You libs have been claiming that Romney is "too liberal as a Republican" for years,


You haven't been posting on this forum long enough to know what the liberals on here believe.

For the record I've stated that Romney has no core and will go in ANY direction him and his
advisors think will increase his chances of winning

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

yet now you want to claim he is hard core right wing extremist!


You've been accusing Of Obama of lying then you accuse of of making this
totally false claims

BS. Link a quote of me saying that.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

You hammered the guy for providing a health insurance for the poor in Mass, saying he's a
flip flopper because he gave the people there a BETTER policy than Obamacare,


Again you accuse Obama of lying but here you are again accusing me of something I
never said

No I didn't hammer Romney "for providing health insurance for the poor in Mass"
Provide the link showing your claim of what I said

No I didn't call Romney a "flip flopper because he gave the people there a BETTER policy than Obamacare,"
Provide the link showing your claim of what I said

I called Romney a flip-flopper for mainly changing his position from wanting to nationalize his
health care program in Massachussets(which would essentially be "Obamacare" and then flip-flopping
on that later, Calling for the total repeal of "obamacare" but then changing it to partial repeal
and blasting Obamacare when it so much based on Romenycare.

and you say ROmneycare is better than ObamaCare. Is that what the lead economist for both
RomneyCare and Obamacare says? No Jonathon Gruber doesn't say that at all.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Oh, here's the truth that Obama lied about the terrorist attacks...

Here's a liberal source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politic....7240933


ABC is NOT a liberal source. Stop calling everything that isn't right-wing
"liberal'. Nor does that source say Obama lied(show the quote).

Stop calling anything associated with Obama a "lie" just for the effect

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

#2 Lied about Romney's tax plan!: Halfway down the page


No they don't say he lied either. Quote the part where you claim they said he lied

Oh and about this part


However, Romney says he wants to pay for the tax cuts by reducing or eliminating tax credits,
deductions and exemptions. The goal is a simpler tax code that raises the same amount of money
as the current system but does it in a more efficient manner.


and does Romney say what those deductions and exemptions will be? Are there enough to offset?

From factcheck.org


However, Romney continued to struggle to explain how he could possibly offset such a large loss of
revenue without shifting the burden away from upper-income taxpayers, who benefit disproportionately
from across-the-board rate cuts and especially from elimination of the estate tax (which falls only
on estates exceeding $5.1 million left by any who die this year). The Tax Policy Center concluded
earlier this year that it wasn’t mathematically possible for a plan such as Romney’s to cut rates
as he promised without either favoring the wealthy or increasing the federal deficit.


http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

and the following from politifact


Obama said that "independent studies" looking at Romney's tax plan say the only way to
meet Romney's goal of not adding to the deficit is by "burdening middle class families."
A reputable study from the Tax Policy Center found that to meet Romney's deficit goal,
middle class taxpayers might lose exemptions and deductions worth about $2,000. So we
previously have rated Mostly True a claim that Romney is proposing a tax plan "that would
give millionaires another tax break and raise taxes on middle class families by up to $2,000
a year."

• Romney said six tax studies look at a study that Obama described and "say it's completely
wrong." Previously, Romney has claimed that five studies back his tax plan. We found that
Mostly False. We saw no more than two independent studies out of the five claimed.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o....-debate


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

You missed the whole point. Bush didnt LIE about the fact that people who leave the job market will skew the numbers in a deceptive way, yet Obama and the Dems have deceived people about this for years now! With the help of their friends at the MSM.


Ok so surprise surprise you're a Bush apologist. Give the exact quote from Obama or
any Dem where they 'deceived people about this for years now!' concerning "that people
who leave the job  market will skew the numbers in a deceptive way"?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 05 2012, 11:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The methodology is out in plain sight:

Monthly Employment Situation Report:
Quick Guide to Methods and Measurement Issues

http://www.bls.gov/bls/empsitquickguide.htm

But hiding in plain sight is just what Kenyan anti-colonialists specialize in eh?

Oh look, as early as 2008 one of those sneaky liberals at that sneaky liberal New York Times was offering a different metric for expressing employment in America.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008....wonkery

And note, while Bush was then president there's no throwing about "lying" or any such nonsense, just a straight on suggestion there are alternatives to the BLS metric.

And I just thank Mother Earth that there are right wing zealots-for-truth like the HuffingtonPost that publish things like this:
Jobs Report Reveals Despite Falling Unemployment, Millions Still Stuck With Part-Time Hours
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....03.html

Oh, wait.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 12:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dude you're spinning so hard I'm getting dizzy!

Just because someone in those 2 articles doesnt use the 2 words "he lied" doesnt mean he didnt for gods sake! The point is, as you should know, the administration has been claiming this WASNT a terrorist attack and that it was ONLY as a result of that disgusting video. That article proves he was lying by saying that there was a pre planned terrorist attack.

Dont you understand, If he says one thing, and its proven later that he wasnt telling the truth, thats lying!

They have said there was NO threat of any terrorist attack, yet even the media were able to find documents disproving that BS, and there were many warnings this was going to happen soon, plus the security people from that country were even worried about an attack.

Also, as far as The tax policy center you mentioned, they have since slapped down Obama's claim that their most recent study proved that Romney's plan will cause the middle class to pay $2,000 more in taxes. Just like the AARP slapped down his claim that they are supporting him.

I give you liberal sources showing you clearly that he didnt tell the truth, but you make excuses for him still.

To the person who said I am a Bush apologist. I said I DONT LIKE BUSH in my last post. I previously I DIDNT VOTE FOR HIM the 2nd time his life around(just like I wont blindly vote for Obama because Rachel Maddow thinks I should) ) But if someone is going to dishonestly blame Bush for EVERYTHING that has gone wrong in the last 4 years like Obama has been doing up til 2 days ago, I am not going to go along with it if it isn't true.

It sounds like some people here would be happier if I just blamed everything on Rep's, regardless of the facts, and would be happier if I said "Bush and Romney are Nazis and ALL Dems are wonderful, incorruptible champions of everyone"

Sorry to disappoint. But Obama didnt help me from losing my house! He has added as much to the debt as Bush did in 8 years for Gods sake.

Does anyone really think Obama has done a good job?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 12:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 05 2012, 11:40 pm)
QUOTE
The methodology is out in plain sight:

Monthly Employment Situation Report:
Quick Guide to Methods and Measurement Issues

http://www.bls.gov/bls/empsitquickguide.htm

But hiding in plain sight is just what Kenyan anti-colonialists specialize in eh?

Oh look, as early as 2008 one of those sneaky liberals at that sneaky liberal New York Times was offering a different metric for expressing employment in America.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008....wonkery

And note, while Bush was then president there's no throwing about "lying" or any such nonsense, just a straight on suggestion there are alternatives to the BLS metric.

And I just thank Mother Earth that there are right wing zealots-for-truth like the HuffingtonPost that publish things like this:
Jobs Report Reveals Despite Falling Unemployment, Millions Still Stuck With Part-Time Hours
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....03.html

Oh, wait.

Im not sure what relevance that has to this post, as occasionally liars do tell the truth, but you can bet your last penny that Paul Krugman will be back shilling for Dems like he has for many years, which he probably already did since that article.

But the point that was disputed was that Obama has been deceptive about unemployment numbers by giving out NET numbers which dont include people who walked away from the market, or people with little part time jobs, or people who lost their jobs over the past 4 years.

No matter how you SPIN it, thats^ dishonest, and even when you try the old "two wrongs make a right" strategy, that doesnt justify Obama being dishonest, just because Bush may have said something that wasnt true 5 years ago!  It doesnt change the fact that BUSH isnt in office anymore, now its Obama turn to be held accountable.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 12:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Oct. 05 2012, 10:55 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:30 pm)
QUOTE
ALL the economists have predicted another anemic unemployment report of around 80,000-90,000 new jobs, when we need several times that number just to begin to get back to where we need to be.

Then Obama loses the debate even in the opinions of pretty much every Liberal news network and publication, and just 2 days later, we suddenly get what is literally the biggest job improvement in 29 years reported to us by the same gov't that Obama controls.

They suddenly claim 870,000 new jobs this month. But the numbers dont bear it out, and many seasoned economists and experts are questioning this report and the "convenient" fact that it conveniently brings the unemployment rate down to where it is 'allegedly' just .1 point below where it was when he got into office!

But it doesnt bear out because the total job numbers plus the numbers of the "marginally employed", which are people with part time jobs of as little as 1 hour per week of employment remained the same!

In other words, aside from the new employment numbers, Obama's federal gov't has been counting low hour part time jobs as "real" jobs. These can be as little as 1 hour per week. Can anyone really support themselves or their families on 1-10 hours per week? No....

Also, the so called unemployment reports DONT count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job. That has been good for Obama, because there have been many months where many hundreds of thousands of people simply left the market, and that caused the employment number to drop giving a FALSE impression that things have gotten better, and every time this has happened the Dems have buried it and claimed victory!

If you ask yourself "could Obama lie about this and fabricate job numbers? Well, they've been lying about the middle east situation for weeks now, and they've now been busted as its proven this wasnt a sudden spontaneous attack on our facilities, it was a planned terrorist attack. Also they have lied by claiming there was NO earlier warning that this was going to happen, and that been repeatedly dis proven too!


I wish the unemployment number would go down to .0001%, but I dont believe for a second that 870,000 new jobs were created last month, just 2 days after Obama lost a major debate!

Do you have an original thought?

http://money.cnn.com/2012....t=hp_t2

Dude, if you gotta lower yourself to personal insults, you've already kinda lost, and to your next post "Minions", isnt that kinda the pot calling the kettle black?

Everything I posted there in the post where you mentioned the "original thought comment", I posted of my own volition. in other words, my own thoughts.

This might seem alien, but my political thoughts go something like this "Hold both parties accountable" and "Dont just conveniently blame one party when the other party had all the power, and now has MOST of the power" or as liberals say, "Truth to power", and that power is in the hands of the Dems, so it is THEY who need to be held to account".
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 12:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Scott Walker "claims" we've added jobs too. But he also says Obama fudged the job numbers and that unemployment is much worse than reported.

So did we add jobs, or didn't we?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 1:20 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:19 pm)
QUOTE
It sounds like some people here would be happier if I just blamed everything on Rep's, regardless of the facts, and would be happier if I said "Bush and Romney are Nazis and ALL Dems are wonderful, incorruptible champions of everyone"

You started this thread with the assertion that a statistical result repeated for the third straight year was an election year shenanigan.  Unless you believe that Obama performed the same covert operation in September 2009 and September 2010, in order to make the September 2012 numbers look innocent, that assertion is patently absurd.  

So don't be surprised if you're taken to task on the 8 paragraphs of support you gave in support of a patently absurd assertion.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 1:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Dude you're spinning so hard I'm getting dizzy!


Like Romney and so many Republicans you like to accuse people of exactly
what describes your actions. This is called projection.


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

ust because someone in those 2 articles doesnt use the 2 words "he lied" doesnt mean he didnt for gods sake!


You claimed he lied then the burden of proof is on you.

You haven't met the burden. You claimed a source proved he lied but no where does it say or imply
that he did. Show the exact quote that you think proves he lied.

BTW you didn't think Bush lied about WMDs right? Not that I say that he did or didn't
but I want to see what you say about that


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

The point is, as you should know, the administration has been claiming this WASNT a terrorist attack
and that it was ONLY as a result of that disgusting video. That article proves he was lying by saying
that there was a pre planned terrorist attack.


Show where the article proves he was "lying" which would mean proving that Obama said something that
he knew was false?

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Dont you understand, If he says one thing, and its proven later that he wasnt telling the truth, thats lying!

[/quote]

actually lying is not telling the truth KNOWING it isn't true.

You haven't even come close to proving that.

You don't even bother to quote anything from the articles to back up what you claim


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

They have said there was NO threat of any terrorist attack, yet even the media were able to find documents disproving that BS, and there were many warnings this was going to happen soon, plus the security people from that country were even worried about an attack.


Quote something from any credible source that proves Obama lied


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Also, as far as The tax policy center you mentioned, they have since slapped down Obama's claim that their most recent study proved that Romney's plan will cause the middle class to pay $2,000 more in taxes. Just like the AARP slapped down his claim that they are supporting him.


I've been quoting from factcheck and politifact on Both Romney and Obama.
You can read what I quoted. You haven't quoted anything from the Tax Policy Center


QUOTE

I give you liberal sources showing you clearly that he didnt tell the truth, but you make excuses for him still.


No you claim they were liberal sources(ABC certainly isn't nor is it conservative. Stop making these
claims that you have no proof to back up) and claim "that he didnt tell the truth".

You have some gall to say 'but you make excuses for him still.' when you haven't even begun to back up
any of your claims. How come you haven't quoted from these sources that you claim show what you assert?

Because you're full of it


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

To the person who said I am a Bush apologist. I said I DONT LIKE BUSH in my last post. I previously I DIDNT VOTE FOR HIM the 2nd time his life around(just like I wont blindly vote for Obama because Rachel Maddow thinks I should) ) But if someone is going to dishonestly blame Bush for EVERYTHING that has gone wrong in the last 4 years like Obama has been doing up til 2 days ago, I am not going to go along with it if it isn't true.


When you say something like

You missed the whole point. Bush didnt LIE about the fact that people who leave the job market will skew
the numbers in a deceptive way, yet Obama and the Dems have deceived people about this for years now!
With the help of their friends at the MSM.


That seems pretty obvious you have a double standard

and for the record, I certainly haven't blamed it all on Bush. The economy is far too complex to blame
on any on person. I see Republicans blaming Obama as much anyone despite the fact that he was handed
the worst economy since the depression and a Republican party hell bent on obstructing almost everything
he does

and since when do so called "free market" Republicans believe government creates jobs anyway? Are you a
"free market" conservative?

If someone doesn't believe government creates jobs then how the hell can they blame the government for
not creating enough jobs which of course would include Obama?


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

It sounds like some people here would be happier if I just blamed everything on Rep's, regardless of the facts, and would be happier if I said "Bush and Romney are Nazis and ALL Dems are wonderful, incorruptible champions of everyone"


How do you know that liberals on here view Bush that way? You haven't been on here long enough
to know. I think far more right-wingers on even this forum accuse Obama of being a socialist,
communist or marxist than anyone calling Bush or ROMNEY a NAZI. I certainly don't recall anyone
calling either a NAZI


CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Sorry to disappoint. But Obama didnt help me from losing my house! He has added as much to the debt as Bush did in 8 years for Gods sake.


Oh so you expect the government to help you. Why would you? Is that role of the
government according to your ideology?

and No Obama didn't add as much to the debt as Bush did in the last 8 years
(PSSSS. Think "fiscal years" and find out what the CBO projected the
deficit would be even before Obama took office)

Nor is debt a function of ONLY spending and ONLY the policies of Obama.
See we don't live in a dictatorship. We have a presidency and a congress,
The congress passes legislation.

CharlesTheHammer said
QUOTE

Does anyone really think Obama has done a good job?


I;ve said in past threads that I would give him a C+ or
B-.

Republicans a total F-


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 8:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

DTM, nice to have you back. I appreciate that you take the time to take apart the rightwing talking points point-by-point, refute them with substance and good sources, and challenge them to provide a quote or a source that actually supports their assertions.

As usual the rightwinger comes back with nothing of substance, and as usuaul no facts or logic can budge them from their false talking points -- yet you keep fighting the good fight. Thanks.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 9:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 06 2012, 12:19 am)
QUOTE
They have said there was NO threat of any terrorist attack, yet even the media were able to find documents disproving that BS, and there were many warnings this was going to happen soon, plus the security people from that country were even worried about an attack.

Out of all the wacko stuff you've posted, this eliminates your credibility more than anything. The fact that you think the media is in on some giant conspiracy and that "even they," presumably the Obama cohorts, would discover evidence, evidence the Obama administration never denied...the fact you think this is proof of your Limbaugh inspired conspiracy theories, makes everything you else say seem suspect.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 9:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 06 2012, 12:40 am)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Oct. 05 2012, 10:55 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:30 pm)
QUOTE
ALL the economists have predicted another anemic unemployment report of around 80,000-90,000 new jobs, when we need several times that number just to begin to get back to where we need to be.

Then Obama loses the debate even in the opinions of pretty much every Liberal news network and publication, and just 2 days later, we suddenly get what is literally the biggest job improvement in 29 years reported to us by the same gov't that Obama controls.

They suddenly claim 870,000 new jobs this month. But the numbers dont bear it out, and many seasoned economists and experts are questioning this report and the "convenient" fact that it conveniently brings the unemployment rate down to where it is 'allegedly' just .1 point below where it was when he got into office!

But it doesnt bear out because the total job numbers plus the numbers of the "marginally employed", which are people with part time jobs of as little as 1 hour per week of employment remained the same!

In other words, aside from the new employment numbers, Obama's federal gov't has been counting low hour part time jobs as "real" jobs. These can be as little as 1 hour per week. Can anyone really support themselves or their families on 1-10 hours per week? No....

Also, the so called unemployment reports DONT count people who have given up and simply walked away from looking for a job. That has been good for Obama, because there have been many months where many hundreds of thousands of people simply left the market, and that caused the employment number to drop giving a FALSE impression that things have gotten better, and every time this has happened the Dems have buried it and claimed victory!

If you ask yourself "could Obama lie about this and fabricate job numbers? Well, they've been lying about the middle east situation for weeks now, and they've now been busted as its proven this wasnt a sudden spontaneous attack on our facilities, it was a planned terrorist attack. Also they have lied by claiming there was NO earlier warning that this was going to happen, and that been repeatedly dis proven too!


I wish the unemployment number would go down to .0001%, but I dont believe for a second that 870,000 new jobs were created last month, just 2 days after Obama lost a major debate!

Do you have an original thought?

http://money.cnn.com/2012....t=hp_t2

Dude, if you gotta lower yourself to personal insults, you've already kinda lost, and to your next post "Minions", isnt that kinda the pot calling the kettle black?

Everything I posted there in the post where you mentioned the "original thought comment", I posted of my own volition. in other words, my own thoughts.

This might seem alien, but my political thoughts go something like this "Hold both parties accountable" and "Dont just conveniently blame one party when the other party had all the power, and now has MOST of the power" or as liberals say, "Truth to power", and that power is in the hands of the Dems, so it is THEY who need to be held to account".

How is a link proving my statement a personal insult? What a weak attempt at ad hominen on your part. Guess that's the Fox News victim routine you're attempting now after your post was completely discredited.

Your own words? You sound like a middle schooler trying to prove he didn't plagiarize an article from Encyclopedia Britannia because he re-wrote it in kidspeak.  Your entire first post is a just a long winded version of the original Welch tweet, one shown to you to be incorrect. Try to think for yourself.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 9:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Fact is that argument with a dunderhead, though amusing and sometimes satisfying, never changes the position of the dunderhead.  This becomes especially clear the closer we get to election day(s).  

Dunderheads never synthesize ideas.  They percept but do not concept because they can't do the work .  It is not a decision for them.  It is a state of conscientiousness but without the conscientious if you get my drift.

So just get yourselves and as many other like-minded souls as you can to the polls and cancel their votes with your own.  It's the best action you can take.

And there is no guarentee that they won't win, either.  Exhibit A: George Bush.

HYOH

Drake
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 10:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seasonal (part time) increases and people giving up on even looking

Yippee!  we are back to the levels Bush left with

We will never rid the world of racism as long as we continue setting the bar lower for the Black man


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 11:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

BillBab said
QUOTE

Seasonal (part time) increases and people giving up on even looking


Those facts always play a role in unemployment #'s

BillBab said
QUOTE

Yippee!  we are back to the levels Bush left with


[sarcasm]
Ya I mean after all Obama was handed both the worst economy since the depression and
argueably the most partisan obstructionist opposition party(at least in modern times)
so given those two facts the unemployment rate should be substantially lower
[/sarcasm]

BillBab said
QUOTE

We will never rid the world of racism as long as we continue setting the bar lower for the
Black man


"long as we continue setting the bar lower for the Black man"

WTF did you mean by that? Whose the 'we'? I don't know but from where I'm standing that
statement sounds at the very least like race baiting and maybe more. Why did you feel the
need to interject race like that out of the blue with that comment?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 11:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Oct. 06 2012, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
Seasonal (part time) increases and people giving up on even looking

Yippee!  we are back to the levels Bush left with

We will never rid the world of racism as long as we continue setting the bar lower for the Black man

Wow, so you're not even trying to hide your racism anymore.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 06 2012, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(orygawn @ Oct. 06 2012, 1:20 am)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 05 2012, 9:19 pm)
QUOTE
It sounds like some people here would be happier if I just blamed everything on Rep's, regardless of the facts, and would be happier if I said "Bush and Romney are Nazis and ALL Dems are wonderful, incorruptible champions of everyone"

You started this thread with the assertion that a statistical result repeated for the third straight year was an election year shenanigan.  Unless you believe that Obama performed the same covert operation in September 2009 and September 2010, in order to make the September 2012 numbers look innocent, that assertion is patently absurd.  

So don't be surprised if you're taken to task on the 8 paragraphs of support you gave in support of a patently absurd assertion.

Is anyone here REALLY going to try and claim that if a Republican were in office right now, while we have had much lower than needed job numbers for almost 4 years of that presidency, while all the economists are calling for another anemic 80-90,000 jobs, but all the sudden, miraculously, that same gov't comes out with what are literally the largest job numbers in 29 years(870,000 new jobs allegedly), right before the election, that nobody here would question the accuracy of that?

Lets be honest about that above^ question....(come on now!) How long did the left's fabricated Valerie Plame "scandal" drag on for? About 6 years!


During the dot com boom of the 90's, right after Al Gore invented the internet and Clinton invented computers(just throwing in some jest here!), when we suddenly had several completely new markets in modern computers, hardware, software, games, and all the supporting stuff that goes along with that, when most American families went out and bought computers, and then we had more new markets spring up through the internet, and new internet sales businesses, old brick/mortar businesses are suddenly able to sell worldwide, and yet during that entire time, we never had a month where this many jobs were created!

Where did the market for all these miraculous jobs come from now? Where are all the markets that support nearly 1 million new jobs in 1 month when the average American family is bringing in thousands of dollars less than they were just 4 years ago, yet are paying higher costs for just about everything, including higher health care costs, double fuel costs, etc?

Well, scientists did just say they think that warp speed travel is a possibility in the future, maybe this is the beginning of the "Warp-engine boom"! LOL
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