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Topic: Ryan lost badly< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 11 2012, 11:59 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I figured that Joe Biden would be the dominate member of the debate. It went beyound that, Biden totally manhandled Ryan. Ryan mostly just sat there staring, when he did speak, he seemed confused.  I think he and Romney have an extreme meshing problem. Ryan was trying to keep consistent with Romneys talking points but failed miserably.  The two men are just too dislike.  Another minus is Ryan's lack of a command voice. He just mumbles and his facial expressions doesn't add any confidence to his words.  
Biden has played the Washington game so long it's natural for him to rattle away and bully the opposition.  He and the President have several years of working together now and it's much easier for him to speak for his candidate.  Obamas weak performance likely enhanced Biden's.
I doubt this VP debate will change many votes.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't think I would go that far but I would give Biden the win.

There are two polls out. One from CBS that polled undecided voters and it
gave Biden the victory by a wide margin

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-25....ers-say

A CNN poll gave it to Ryan but only 4 points

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012....iden-44


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You know there were two opportunities for Biden, when Ryan brought up this mind boggling
hypocritical and ironic claim that Obama wasn't trying to work with Republicans and
that Romney when he was governor(in which he said he was a "severe conservative") worked
with Democrats in Massachusetts, where he could have brought up the following Republican
meeting during Obama's Day inauguration(when the recession was at its most intense)


The dinner lasted nearly four hours. They parted company almost giddily. The Republicans
had agreed on a way forward:

Go after Geithner. (And indeed Kyl did, the next day: ‘Would you answer my question rather
than dancing around it—please?’)

Show united and unyielding opposition to the president’s economic policies. (Eight days later,
Minority Whip Cantor would hold the House Republicans to a unanimous No against Obama’s
economic stimulus plan.)

Begin attacking vulnerable Democrats on the airwaves. (The first National Republican Congressional
Committee attack ads would run in less than two months.)

Win the spear point of the House in 2010. Jab Obama relentlessly in 2011. Win the White House
and the Senate in 2012.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....99.html

That would have really really exposed Ryan's hypocrisy


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh and one more thing. Romney and Ryan at both debates used the very popular right-wing
Republican talking point 'A government takeover of health care'.

This is such a big fat lie that politifact gave it the Lie of the year for 2010

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o....th-care


What does it say about two candidates that they would be willing to promulgate such a
massive lie in front of tens of millions of people and still keep a straight face?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One thing was certainly made clear to me,Ryan is not someone I want to be President of the United States. It scares me that he actually admits, he'd govern by religious beliefs and not reason.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 3:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Oct. 11 2012, 9:32 pm)
QUOTE
One thing was certainly made clear to me,Ryan is not someone I want to be President of the United States. It scares me that he actually admits, he'd govern by religious beliefs and not reason.

Yep, I've always said there is enough nonsense in government even without the superstitious religious  nonsense. We don't need more nonsense in our government. There's enough of it  as is.

-Don-  Reno, NV


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 7:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Oct. 12 2012, 12:32 am)
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One thing was certainly made clear to me,Ryan is not someone I want to be President of the United States. It scares me that he actually admits, he'd govern by religious beliefs and not reason.

Ryan saying that he could not separate his religious views from his public life as a politician was the most disturbing thing he stated. If that's true, he has no business being a representative of a secular government.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 8:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think in the home stretch that Obama/Biden will get their base motivated enough to win. The Romney/Ryan ticket just are too distant from each other politically. Romney moved right to win the nomination, but now he's disputing a lot of the talking points he temporally supported. Ryan isn't willing to move left with Romney. Their campaign is starting to wobble like a broken pair of flip flops.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 9:07 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thankfully Mitt will be President regardless.  Time to take our country back from the socialists and silence some of you liberal wanks.  That will give bama and michelle plenty of time for their love of travel.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(scroat @ Oct. 12 2012, 9:07 am)
QUOTE
Thankfully Mitt will be President regardless.  Time to take our country back from the socialists and silence some of you liberal wanks.  That will give bama and michelle plenty of time for their love of travel.

Scroat,

How much are you willing to bet on this election? With all due respect the President and Vice President are not socialist, your partisanship, or ignorance, doesn't change the fact these two men are far closer to the center of our political spectrum than Governor Romney and Mr. Ryan. All anyone has to do is compare this Administration's record with that of Ronald Reagen's and unless you "think" Mr. Reagen was a socialist clearly this President is not either.

I think if there was any doubt beforehand Ryan gave Florida to the President last night. I don't see Romney carrying PA either since voter supression is not going to fly there or other states as well.

I'm dissapointed with the President on many levels. In 2008 I very well may have voted for Governor Romney if he had been the nominee then; but since then the man has compromised whatever integrity he might have had with seemingly constant contradictions and deceitful assertions to pander to the lunatic fringe of the Right. I'm not happy voting against someone instead of for someone, but our country can't afford to re-embrace the policies that dug this deep hole we are in in the first place. In January Republicans have a decision to make; they can either finally come to the table in good faith and make the compromises the country desperately needs, or they can continue their obstructionist agenda and give the President a majority again in two years.

I find it interesting CBS came up with such a margin. In my understanding CBS is the preferred network of older Americans. I think that is a great barometer for this Administration's virtually certain march to victory.

Well done Mr. Vice President


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 10:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bush and his cronies got the country in the mess that Obama has faced the past 4 years. Romney is nothing short of a 3rd Bush term.
I'll accept the slow limp back to progress for 4 more years and wait patiently for 2016. In 2016 we run Rand Paul. In 2016 we bring our country back on course. The Liberterians and moderates are rising. We are tired of unnecessary wars, huge budgets and government intrusion into our lives.
Rand Paul 2016.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Oct. 12 2012, 10:42 am)
QUOTE
Bush and his cronies got the country in the mess that Obama has faced the past 4 years. Romney is nothing short of a 3rd Bush term.
I'll accept the slow limp back to progress for 4 more years and wait patiently for 2016. In 2016 we run Rand Paul. In 2016 we bring our country back on course. The Liberterians and moderates are rising. We are tired of unnecessary wars, huge budgets and government intrusion into our lives.
Rand Paul 2016.

I'm down with Rand Paul
Actually, this the first election I won't vote... can't stand either.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 10:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Ryan lost badly

Oh, come on now--be fair.  Ryan totally showed he has what it takes to recite carefully memorized strings of ethno/geographic proper nouns. He couldn't quite make it look like he knew what he was talking about when he recited them, but hey--baby steps.

And the Vice President showed admirable restraint in not reaching across the desk to smack the living daylights out of that smug little weasel.  God knows he must have been tempted.

Overall, last night was a big posthumous victory for Christopher Hitchens. That Ryan could use words like "bipartisan" and "honesty" without being instantaneously reduced to a smoldering pile of fine grey ash by an obliterating lightning bolt of unmistakeably celestial origin is clear proof that There Is No God.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 11:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 11 2012, 9:12 pm)
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There are two polls out. One from CBS that polled undecided voters and it
gave Biden the victory by a wide margin

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-25....ers-say

A CNN poll gave it to Ryan but only 4 points

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012....iden-44

I just want to point out that those polling numbers aren't necessarily incompatible.  "Undecided" voters are such a small percentage of the electorate that a huge margin within that number would be just a few percentage points in the larger pool.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 11 2012, 10:12 pm)
QUOTE
I don't think I would go that far but I would give Biden the win.

There are two polls out. One from CBS that polled undecided voters and it
gave Biden the victory by a wide margin

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-25....ers-say

A CNN poll gave it to Ryan but only 4 points

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012....iden-44

Gotta keep in mind the details of the polling there.  From the second article:

QUOTE
Forty-eight percent of voters who watched the vice presidential debate think that Rep. Paul Ryan won the showdown, according to a CNN/ORC International nationwide poll conducted right after Thursday night's faceoff. Forty-four percent say that Vice President Joe Biden was victorious. The Republican running mate's four point advantage among a debate audience that was more Republican than the country as a whole is within the survey's sampling error.


Not to say the results don't say something, but it was a pretty small sample.  The bigger picture is how (if at all) the electoral college maps shift--based on multiple polls--within the week following the debate.  Obama lost ground on that map after the last presidential debate, not surprising to anyone.  IMO it probably won't shift much from this debate, but the next presidential debate may see a few more shifts one way or the other, depending how it goes.  Just my $.02 anyway.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A big electoral target is Florida with it's 29 votes and Biden hit Ryan/Romney pretty hard on a lot of issues Florida pays attention to so that would be one to check over the next week (it moving out of the Obama column was one of the larger items in the shift in RCP's totals)

"see a few more shifts" Oh absolutely, with the electoral college and the states in play being so small relatively small shifts in the undecided voters preferences will have significant impacts and what with "undecideds" being the group who have far less overall interest in politics they're a volatile group subject to immediate headline events like a debate or some international event...
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I thought Biden dominated the beginning of the debate, but his constant interruptions really wore on me.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Had Ryan repeated less malarkey Biden wouldn't have had the need to interrupt so much.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 1:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_....esident

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 1:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh look, surprise surprise BillBab uses the Republican leaning polling firm
rasmussenreports


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You know I'm still waiting for the first right-winger who either knows what the term
"socialist" means or applies their definition consistently across party lines

I can't recall any right-winger on any political message board that has been able to do this
even though the term "socialist" is so so basic and elementary.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 2:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ooooooooo... Socialism. Very scary.
Kind of like Communism Lite.

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012....mmunist


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 2:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Both accomplished their own respective missions.

Ryan proved he was no Palin.

Biden said what supporters wanted to hear last week from Obama.  

Big question is did Obama learn any lessons last night.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 2:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Oct. 12 2012, 11:36 am)
QUOTE
Both accomplished their own respective missions.

Ryan proved he was no Palin.

Biden said what supporters wanted to hear last week from Obama.  

Big question is did Obama learn any lessons last night.

Oh I think the campaign learned the lesson after the first debate: they made the tactical error of thinking they could coast on momentum and just avoid making a "mistake" at the debate. Well passive to avoid any overt errors turns out to have been an error itself. One Biden clearly wasn't going to repeat and I expect neither will the president.
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(Old Frank @ Oct. 12 2012, 2:36 pm)
QUOTE
Both accomplished their own respective missions.

Ryan proved he was no Palin.

Biden said what supporters wanted to hear last week from Obama.  

Big question is did Obama learn any lessons last night.

Joe accomplished three things, in my opinion.  

He showed that substance is second to showmanship, theatrics work better among the hard working stiffs than a real grasp of the issues, and if you interrupt the other guy enough with your "Crazy Uncle Joe" routine, there are people out there who feel that you won.   ???

In matters of who got more stage time, then Biden was certainly the more entertaining of the two.  

The real results of his performance will most certainly be shown tomorrow night on SNL.

I can't wait!!!  :D


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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 12 2012, 10:06 am)
QUOTE
A big electoral target is Florida with it's 29 votes and Biden hit Ryan/Romney pretty hard on a lot of issues Florida pays attention to so that would be one to check over the next week (it moving out of the Obama column was one of the larger items in the shift in RCP's totals)

"see a few more shifts" Oh absolutely, with the electoral college and the states in play being so small relatively small shifts in the undecided voters preferences will have significant impacts and what with "undecideds" being the group who have far less overall interest in politics they're a volatile group subject to immediate headline events like a debate or some international event...

Interestingly enough, if you click on the "No Toss-ups" electoral map, it shows Obama winning the electoral college even without FL, as it stands this moment.  It is still a huge state and a big focus for both candidates, but it's not necessarily the "end-all" of the entire election.

Which is good.  I don't like the idea of the whole election being decided by just one state, regardless of which way it goes.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 3:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think Biden played to his strengths, which was great to see. He's a big personality and it showed. I quite enjoyed the laughing, because realistically, given the ridiculousness of the Romney platform, is what it deserved.

I'm not surprised at the conservative reaction. Bullies don't like it when they get pushed back.

Ryan did ok, but was very robotic - his closing statement in particular.
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(GoBlueHiker @ Oct. 12 2012, 12:03 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 12 2012, 10:06 am)
QUOTE
A big electoral target is Florida with it's 29 votes and Biden hit Ryan/Romney pretty hard on a lot of issues Florida pays attention to so that would be one to check over the next week (it moving out of the Obama column was one of the larger items in the shift in RCP's totals)

"see a few more shifts" Oh absolutely, with the electoral college and the states in play being so small relatively small shifts in the undecided voters preferences will have significant impacts and what with "undecideds" being the group who have far less overall interest in politics they're a volatile group subject to immediate headline events like a debate or some international event...

Interestingly enough, if you click on the "No Toss-ups" electoral map, it shows Obama winning the electoral college even without FL, as it stands this moment.  It is still a huge state and a big focus for both candidates, but it's not necessarily the "end-all" of the entire election.

Which is good.  I don't like the idea of the whole election being decided by just one state, regardless of which way it goes.

True but that 58 vote swing (from 29 votes blue to 29 votes red...) undoubtedly gave the campaign pause for sure. Suddenly you're not beating the "other guy" by nearly as much....


AND one more reason the electoral college should go.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 12 2012, 3:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Oct. 12 2012, 3:29 am)
QUOTE

(Bateauxdriver @ Oct. 11 2012, 9:32 pm)
QUOTE
One thing was certainly made clear to me,Ryan is not someone I want to be President of the United States. It scares me that he actually admits, he'd govern by religious beliefs and not reason.

Yep, I've always said there is enough nonsense in government even without the superstitious religious  nonsense. We don't need more nonsense in our government. There's enough of it  as is.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Agreed. All the more reason for as small a government as possible.

Let's face it. Government has been co-opted by a variety of special interests, from corporate banks, corporate farmers, and energy companies to public and private unions. A lot of politicians are tweaking laws, administrative rules, and budgetary decisions to serve their own interests.

Whether it's a health care law written by insurers, an energy policy written by drillers, or a auto company bailout that screws boundholders to serve the unions, it is easy to see how federal government behaves a lot like a corporation.

The average American is underrepresented in this form of public stakeholder capitalism. It has gotten way out of hand.


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(Hungry Jack @ Oct. 12 2012, 3:26 pm)
QUOTE

(DonTom @ Oct. 12 2012, 3:29 am)
QUOTE

(Bateauxdriver @ Oct. 11 2012, 9:32 pm)
QUOTE
One thing was certainly made clear to me,Ryan is not someone I want to be President of the United States. It scares me that he actually admits, he'd govern by religious beliefs and not reason.

Yep, I've always said there is enough nonsense in government even without the superstitious religious  nonsense. We don't need more nonsense in our government. There's enough of it  as is.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Agreed. All the more reason for as small a government as possible.

Let's face it. Government has been co-opted by a variety of special interests, from corporate banks, corporate farmers, and energy companies to public and private unions. A lot of politicians are tweaking laws, administrative rules, and budgetary decisions to serve their own interests.

Whether it's a health care law written by insurers, an energy policy written by drillers, or a auto company bailout that screws boundholders to serve the unions, it is easy to see how federal government behaves a lot like a corporation.

The average American is underrepresented in this form of public stakeholder capitalism. It has gotten way out of hand.

I actually agree with you Jack.

It's become way too easy to buy the political process.

Major major reform is needed, but I don't see it ever happening.
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