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GoBlueHiker 
Obsessive Island Hopper...
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 6:59 pm |
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This is something that's disappointed me since the beginning of this campaign season. It used to be, protecting the environment was something at least given lip-service by politicians, and occasional action legislatively (re: Clean Air Act, Endangered Species Act, Wilderness Act, you name it, all of which have produced huge dividends for our current health as well as preserving something for future generations).
But that seems to disappear from the national debate these days, on all levels. "Drill baby drill!" is the mantra of both parties now, completely ignoring both the macro-environmental concerns (greenhouse emissions, NOx and ozone pollutants, mercury, etc) as well as local ones (spills, clear-cutting watersheds, etc). It's as if everyone has forgotten altogether that we live in a finite environment and it could use some attention.
Anyone else notice this? Your thoughts?
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Wealth needs more. Happiness needs less. Simplify.
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HighGravity
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 7:04 pm |
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Both sides have come to a more rational middle in the current campaign so it's less of an issue.
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hbfa
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 7:05 pm |
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I have noticed the same.
I think it boils down to priorities. With the economy in the tank over the last few years and high unemployment, the environment has been pushed to the back burner. I see it as short sighted, but a reality none the less.
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 7:07 pm |
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I do not hear the "Drill Baby, Now" diatribe from the Left, as much as it is going ahead with some drilling in some areas that are not as sensitive.
Never the less, I hear what you are saying. The Sierra Club concerns are not high on the list. In Oregon, we are hearing some ads about increasing the amount of timber taken from our NFs, but all of the candidates seem to be in accord. Lumber counties are hard hit, and the folks that live there are in dire need of something to earn a living.
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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BCPete1
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 7:18 pm |
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I must be getting old ... I've noticed this trend for about the past twenty-five years. When times are good, then the enviroment will bubble to the top of the issues. When the economy tanks, it gets put on the back burner real fast. I don't see that changing (the trend I mean) anytime soon.
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Drift Woody
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 8:50 pm |
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(GoBlueHiker @ Oct. 18 2012, 5:59 pm)
QUOTE This is something that's disappointed me since the beginning of this campaign season. It used to be, protecting the environment was something at least given lip-service by politicians, and occasional action legislatively (re: Clean Air Act, Endangered Species Act, Wilderness Act, you name it, all of which have produced huge dividends for our current health as well as preserving something for future generations).
But that seems to disappear from the national debate these days, on all levels. "Drill baby drill!" is the mantra of both parties now, completely ignoring both the macro-environmental concerns (greenhouse emissions, NOx and ozone pollutants, mercury, etc) as well as local ones (spills, clear-cutting watersheds, etc). It's as if everyone has forgotten altogether that we live in a finite environment and it could use some attention.
Anyone else notice this? Your thoughts?
Electoral politics.
The Democratic Party thinks they can take the votes of environmentalists for granted, and they're probably right. Today's Republican Party wants to dismantle (or at least neuter) the EPA created under Nixon, and DrillBabyDrill has gone from policy choice to ideology. The right's political strategists have been successful at spreading the narrative that maximizing the extraction of resources and eliminating environmental regulations are essential to our economy and our national security ... and global warming is a hoax.
I find it hard to believe that any voter with the environment near the top of their issue list would vote for a Republican at the national level. This election campaign is seen as a battle for the votes of people willing to vote for either party and/or poorly informed on environmental issues.
So, when Romney tries to score points in a debate by attacking the president for not doing enough to tap our fossil fuel energy resources and the president defends his record by refuting some of Romney's assertions, the debate is already taking place within the narrative that "conservatives" have been pushing all along.
I think I know what you're thinking, GBH ... a truly great leader would turn that narrative on its head and make a strong argument for conserving our resources, protecting our environment and the health of our people, and taking the necessary steps towards a 21st century energy strategy that will avert environmental and economic catastrophes not very far down the road.
But that's a risky political strategy in a tight election where undecided voters might be swayed by the counter-assault the right would launch to such an argument.
Sadly, playing it "conservatively" may be this president's biggest shortcoming. His candidacy and election inspired millions of voters four years ago, but he has failed to use his bully pulpit to keep that spirit going. If all the young people who voted for him last time vote for him this time Barack Obama will be president another four years.
Pehaps it's not the undecided voters the president's political strategists should primarily be focusing on. Turnout will likely win this election.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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hbfa
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Posted on: Oct. 18 2012, 9:49 pm |
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(WalksWithBlackflies @ Oct. 18 2012, 6:29 pm)
QUOTE
(BCPete1 @ Oct. 18 2012, 7:18 pm)
QUOTE I must be getting old ... I've noticed this trend for about the past twenty-five years. When times are good, then the enviroment will bubble to the top of the issues. When the economy tanks, it gets put on the back burner real fast. I don't see that changing (the trend I mean) anytime soon. +1 That's why protection of the environment is such a hard sell in third world countries.
Exactly. It's hard to worry about climate change, pollution, habitat protection, etc. etc. when you live in a mud hut and your kids are hungry.
That's why it's so important for the wealthy countries to take action and develop cleaner energy sources, learn more about how our actions impact the planet, protect wildlife and habitat, etc. etc.
With wealth comes responsibility.
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cgaphiker
Hen Wallow Falls
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 12:04 am |
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Yes I have noticed and I can think of a couple possible reasons why. Number one IMO is 8% unemployment and near $4 a gallon gas. Secondly I have noticed that presidents tend to do something for the environment that doesn't require congressional action towards the end of their second term.
Just my $.02 anyway.
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davela
Group: Members
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 12:30 am |
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Mountain Top Removal:that is why i am not voting for Obama.I sent an email to Obama about my MTR concerns and they responded with an email soliciting a donation.That and the BP spill response+fiasco is whats making me vote green party.GOP sticks by their 18th century principles and the Dems should stick by 21st century principles.
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Protect Greater Canyonlands!
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
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orygawn
Sleeping Bag Man!
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 1:08 am |
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Because the left has been reacting to and appeasing the right for 30 years, instead of championing their own principles.
The left is trying to govern. The right is trying to win.
Appease for 30 years, and what you get is a democratic president and congress that's to the right of Reagan.
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -- Galileo
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CampinCarl
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 5:35 pm |
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Hmmm... yeah, I guess the last significant wilderness one was this:
nullS. 22 (111th): Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009
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"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where Nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul alike." - John Muir
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Bateauxdriver
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 5:50 pm |
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The left has moved right and the right has move further right.
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BillBab
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 5:58 pm |
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The left is trying to take credit for the fossil fuels boom....despite mostly hampering it...because it is just about the only economic bright spot
But in general the "green crowd" is keeping their heads down hoping nobody notices how they are fattening their wallets with taxpayer dollars
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Thomas Sowell
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Ecocentric
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Posted on: Oct. 19 2012, 10:00 pm |
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During the Carter administration the US had technological superiority in solar power. Conservatives had nothing but contempt for energy efficiency and power from any source but fossil fuels, so now China and Germany dominate the world in technology that will be in great demand throughout the world. We have squandered our advantage for purely foolish reasons, and Romney has made it clear that he will do the same again if we give him the chance.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 21
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double cabin
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Posted on: Oct. 20 2012, 11:48 am |
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(HighGravity @ Oct. 19 2012, 8:34 pm)
QUOTE
(BillBab @ Oct. 19 2012, 5:58 pm)
QUOTE The left is trying to take credit for the fossil fuels boom....despite mostly hampering it...because it is just about the only economic bright spot
But in general the "green crowd" is keeping their heads down hoping nobody notices how they are fattening their wallets with taxpayer dollars Considering how much stuff you pull out of your ass, one wonders what your primary hobby must be.
That's the funniest thing I've heard on these boards in some time, thank you Sir/Mam.
When corporations became people rational precaution took a shot in the shorts.
Each generation complains about the next one, and in my predjudiced opinion the mounting culture of consumption and self absorbtion is only exascerbated by the Right's all out assault on every class but the wealthiest among us. With men like T. Roosevelt and Golwater Republicans have given us great Americans that understand to actually be conservative one must genuinely embrace conservation and freedom.
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We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.
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hikerjer
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Posted on: Oct. 20 2012, 9:42 pm |
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When? I'd say it was when Reublicans decided they can blame the county's economic woes on environmentalists and turn it into a dirty word. You ought to hear the rheoric around here by the consevatives concerning coal. Anyone who thinks it should be regulated and controlled at ay level is an left wing, job hating socialist not worthy to live in this country. Sadly, liberals are cowed by it since so many of the people buy into it. A truly sad state of affairs.
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"Too often I have met men who boast only of how many miles they've traveled and not of what they've seen." - Louis L'Amour
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wycanislatrans
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Posted on: Oct. 21 2012, 12:44 pm |
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Many posters hit the nail on the head. DC, HikerJer, BCPete, WWBF.
This is a truly disheartening thing for me, since conservation and resource protection is what drove me into my career and life path. Thanks for depressing me...
The right wing media machine has done a great job of convincing Americans that anything environmental or related to conservation is bad. I've personally heard Rush say, "conservation never works". Evidently that @ss knows nothing about the last 200 years of American history, from farming to legislation. And people are buying into it.
The general public believes spin pundits over credible educate scientists and experts. Politicians are afraid to even give it lip service as they fear it would be a death sentence to their political career and now that Corps. are people and money is speech they fear it rightfully so.
With the current climate we will never have another Teddy Roosevelt, Muir, Leopold or Howard Zahniser. At least not in mainstream.
I just hope we come back to the middle (we are not in the middle now), but I don't see it in the near future.
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Bateauxdriver
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Posted on: Oct. 21 2012, 2:47 pm |
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^ I agree, the answer is in the middle. We need smart regulation that does actual good. Responsible industries should be awarded opportunity to prosper. We need jobs, we need products and services, we need responsible care. None of those are exclusive of the other.
We must stop letting the politicians and billionaires divide us.
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Ecocentric
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Posted on: Oct. 21 2012, 10:10 pm |
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We need more widely practiced birth control.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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Chuck D
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Posted on: Oct. 23 2012, 10:02 pm |
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Getting ready to watch Frontline on PBS on this very topic
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Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
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dayhiker9
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Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 1:31 am |
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Yep Frontline covers this, though it deals with Gobal Warming, it is due in part to the Ds losing, and groups pushing the idea the GW is a false.
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" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers." Krugman
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manlyphall
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Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 2:34 am |
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how bout... they have more important issues. could you imagine the pure hell of a hippie tree-hugging liberal living in China!!! lol. seriously, we use clean burning coal and do lots of stuff to protect the environment. it's just not an urgent issue. a lot more serious stuff going on
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GoBlueHiker
Obsessive Island Hopper...
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Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 am |
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(manlyphall @ Oct. 24 2012, 12:34 am)
QUOTE how bout... they have more important issues. could you imagine the pure hell of a hippie tree-hugging liberal living in China!!! lol. seriously, we use clean burning coal and do lots of stuff to protect the environment. it's just not an urgent issue. a lot more serious stuff going on
We can agree to disagree about it not being "important" or "serious stuff."
"Clean coal" is just an industry-coined phrase meaning nothing more than "slightly less toxic than it used to be." Coal-fired power plants are still the biggest source of mercury emissions in the world, and mountaintop removal mining continues to decimate watersheds throughout Appalachia. You've got a 2-year-old kid. Does it not worry you that mercury levels continue to rise in our water systems, and numerous fish species are considered unsafe to eat because of it? Feed your kid a can of tuna every day for ten years, and when he's suffering nerve damage, tell me about mercury levels being unimportant.
We do "lots of stuff" to protect the environment, but we also continue to consume more than we ever have before, and continue to trash the planet like we have spares lined up to use. Carbon emissions are still exponentially rising, despite our abilities to cut back, and the consequences are being felt worldwide. Global climate change isn't just a modeled "future" projection. The models are playing out, and we're all paying the consequences.
This all just scratches the surface. It is a big deal. It's politically inconvenient, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue for humanity.
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Wealth needs more. Happiness needs less. Simplify.
www.RainForestTreks.com
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