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Topic: Op-ed that proves Romney didnt want GM to go under< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 2:55 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Obama keeps lying about this NY Times article where Romney talked about his position on bailouts for GM, etc.

Here is the actual op-ed that Obama has been lying about. Well, it could be better said that he has completely and intentionally misrepresented Romney's position on this, but this is the acrtual NYT article from 2008. You will notice that the NYT, in their usual deceptive manner, titled the article in a way that makes it SEEM that Romney does want them to completely go under, but read the article, and the last few paragraphs are the most important where he makes it clear he did want Gov't loan guarantees that would prevent them from going under, in order to protect customers' and their warranties, as well as employees!


The whole point of his position is to make changes that will not only just bail them out and allow them to keep operating inefficiently, it would force them to start building cars in a smarter way that would preventing them from going belly up in the future! When you have a problem, especially a big problem, you dont just put a temporary band aid on it, you try and solve the problem so it doesnt pop up again, forcing future leaders to have to spend more tens of billions of dollars!

It seems to me that is better for everyone, as opposed to just a bailout that makes it clear that no matter how inefficiently they run their business, they will always be saved by the gov't! If they run their business better, they wont be as likely to have these problems in the future!

Whats funny is that David Letterman actually pointed out to Rachel Maddow on his show that Obama was lying about this!

Anyway, read the article, especially the last paragraphs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1&
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 3:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Other key line: "The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Which means, in practical terms, after liquidation.  There was no financing available to GM and Chrysler other than the Federal government.  (There was kind of a financial crisis going on at the time, in case you don't remember.)  All of Romney's happy horsesh-t about restructuring and reining in costs and such is meaningless, because if it had been left to the private sector there would have been no company left to restructure.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 3:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Oct. 24 2012, 12:24 pm)
QUOTE
Other key line: "The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Which means, in practical terms, after liquidation.  There was no financing available to GM and Chrysler other than the Federal government.  (There was kind of a financial crisis going on at the time, in case you don't remember.)  All of Romney's happy horsesh-t about restructuring and reining in costs and such is meaningless, because if it had been left to the private sector there would have been no company left to restructure.

Better stated than I.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

do you remember nothing from the financial crisis?Nobody wanted to lend money in the meltdown.Nobody in the private sector wanted to touch GM,including Mitts himself.GM and the US financial system was on the edge of total collapse.The only thing that saved the US economy and GM from Wall St's freemarket wizardry was... the evil federal govt.Go figure.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(davela @ Oct. 24 2012, 12:37 pm)
QUOTE
do you remember nothing from the financial crisis?Nobody wanted to lend money in the meltdown.Nobody in the private sector wanted to touch GM,including Mitts himself.GM and the US financial system was on the edge of total collapse.The only thing that saved the US economy and GM from Wall St's freemarket wizardry was... the evil federal govt.Go figure.

The evil federal government led by President George W. Bush.

Maybe THAT'S why he was absent at the RNC?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do you remember who owned Chrysler during the crisis?Remember when Chryslers owner asked the govt for a socialist handout?Chrysler's owner was of all things, a hedge fund!!!Oh, the irony.Irony is something that is lost on just about every right winger.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 5:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.tnr.com/blog....-loans#

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 5:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CTH

seems everytime you use the word "lie" or "lying" you are in fact lying.


Now CTH from the article at the very beginning


IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.



Simple question.

Did the execs of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get their bailout?

Is it the same bailout that Obama gave them?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 5:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
Other key line: "The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Which means, in practical terms, after liquidation.  There was no financing available to GM and Chrysler other than the Federal government.  (There was kind of a financial crisis going on at the time, in case you don't remember.)  All of Romney's happy horsesh-t about restructuring and reining in costs and such is meaningless, because if it had been left to the private sector there would have been no company left to restructure.

to elaborate more on this


But in the 2008 piece, Romney said the money needed to keep General Motors (GM, Fortune 500)
and Chrysler Group alive during bankruptcy should have come from the private sector, with the
government providing only "guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing." Those guarantees would
have made lenders whole if the automakers subsequently defaulted.

The problem was that there was no one available to write checks for the automakers other than
the government in late 2008 and early 2009.

The financial markets had melted down in the wake of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy. Treasury
was pumping billions into the nation's banks, who were not willing to then lend money to a
struggling auto industry -- or anyone else.



http://money.cnn.com/2012....ex.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 9:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So Romney is what, a socialist, big government bailout interventionst now?

What happened to all that creative destruction?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 9:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Oct. 24 2012, 6:33 pm)
QUOTE
So Romney is what, a socialist, big government bailout interventionst now?

What happened to all that creative destruction?

Sadly all true. I read just yesterday he's this close to endorsing Obama.

(But really after all that 'I agree with the president' debate stuff who'd be surprised. Well, other than Ryan)
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 10:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am not sure everyone here understands reorganization vs. liquidation.

Funny thing is that all of the stuff MR calls for in his piece actually happened via the federally-stewarded bankruptcy reorganization. I don't see anything in his piece about liquidation.

And his comment about guaranteeing warranties advocates removing a major element of financial uncertainty (liabilities associated with future warranty claims) through federal support in order to enable private long-term financing.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Not only that, but you dont have the faintest understanding of what bankruptcy is! Its spelled out very clearly there, so it should be very easy to follow. Bankruptcy DOES NOT mean that you suddenly die and cease to exist!

As I predicted some wouldnt even bother to read the article! Big shocker there. The fact is, they are sooo biased, they dont even want to know the truth because it may contradict what you want to believe...

Bankruptcy DOES NOT mean you go under! It means you are forced to start getting your act together, and then you come back again and do business in a smarter way, instead of being wasteful! Besides, he clearly said he wanted gov't loan guarantees to get them back on their feet after the bankruptcy! Thats what Obama has been lying about

If he wanted them to go belly up and completely disappear, as you choose to falsely believe, then why would he be calling for loan guarantees for the auto companies if they are already completely out of business? That makes absolutely no sense....

Someone said that there are people who shouldn't be allowed to vote, and that person was right, because those people refuse to see the truth when its staring them in the face, and they will make decisions that hurt the people they claim to care about!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 10:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 10:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 5:54 pm)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
Other key line: "The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Which means, in practical terms, after liquidation.  There was no financing available to GM and Chrysler other than the Federal government.  (There was kind of a financial crisis going on at the time, in case you don't remember.)  All of Romney's happy horsesh-t about restructuring and reining in costs and such is meaningless, because if it had been left to the private sector there would have been no company left to restructure.

to elaborate more on this


But in the 2008 piece, Romney said the money needed to keep General Motors (GM, Fortune 500)
and Chrysler Group alive during bankruptcy should have come from the private sector, with the
government providing only "guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing." Those guarantees would
have made lenders whole if the automakers subsequently defaulted.

The problem was that there was no one available to write checks for the automakers other than
the government in late 2008 and early 2009.

The financial markets had melted down in the wake of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy. Treasury
was pumping billions into the nation's banks, who were not willing to then lend money to a
struggling auto industry -- or anyone else.



http://money.cnn.com/2012....ex.html

Your source is bogus, because they are giving their OPINION on what Romney wanted for the auto co's, NOT the truth! Their opinion is irrelevant when you have the actual Romney plan, which contradicts their opinion.....

He called for gov't loan guarantees, thats the bottom line, so outside propaganda is meaningless...

Besides, regardless of how much spin is put on this, Obama got caught lying about it on prime time TV multiple times, just like he lied about most of Romney's positions! :D
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 7:56 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown

Of course Romney is left wing people, didn't you see him doing all that agreeing with the Leftwing in Chief Obama at the last debate?

Oh and Chuck? Thanks for highlighting the conclusion of that commie's piece for me. "Bankruptcy" just like his comrade Obama said eh?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Hungry Jack @ Oct. 24 2012, 7:29 pm)
QUOTE
I am not sure everyone here understands reorganization vs. liquidation.

Funny thing is that all of the stuff MR calls for in his piece actually happened via the federally-stewarded bankruptcy reorganization. I don't see anything in his piece about liquidation.

And his comment about guaranteeing warranties advocates removing a major element of financial uncertainty (liabilities associated with future warranty claims) through federal support in order to enable private long-term financing.

Yeah sure. In the middle of the worst financial collapse since the Great Depression WHAT "private long-term financing" was possible? Answer NONE.

So Romney's "plan" was precisely: you're on your own and that was straight to liquidation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:56 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown

No offense, but thats a lie!

Read the last 3 short paragraphs. You do realize that "Federal government" does not mean "private sector" right?

Here it is yet again, and I'll even underline it: If you dont beleiev me, click on the link again and read the 3rd to the last paragraph!

" The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check. "
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:58 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 5:54 pm)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
Other key line: "The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

Which means, in practical terms, after liquidation.  There was no financing available to GM and Chrysler other than the Federal government.  (There was kind of a financial crisis going on at the time, in case you don't remember.)  All of Romney's happy horsesh-t about restructuring and reining in costs and such is meaningless, because if it had been left to the private sector there would have been no company left to restructure.

to elaborate more on this


But in the 2008 piece, Romney said the money needed to keep General Motors (GM, Fortune 500)
and Chrysler Group alive during bankruptcy should have come from the private sector, with the
government providing only "guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing." Those guarantees would
have made lenders whole if the automakers subsequently defaulted.

The problem was that there was no one available to write checks for the automakers other than
the government in late 2008 and early 2009.

The financial markets had melted down in the wake of the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy. Treasury
was pumping billions into the nation's banks, who were not willing to then lend money to a
struggling auto industry -- or anyone else.



http://money.cnn.com/2012....ex.html

Your source is bogus, because they are giving their OPINION on what Romney wanted for the auto co's, NOT the truth! Their opinion is irrelevant when you have the actual Romney plan, which contradicts their opinion.....

He called for gov't loan guarantees, thats the bottom line, so outside propaganda is meaningless...

Besides, regardless of how much spin is put on this, Obama got caught lying about it on prime time TV multiple times, just like he lied about most of Romney's positions! :D

LOL!!

You accusing anything of propaganda is rich but is the kind of hypocrisy I would
expect from you

beyond that it doesn't contradict that. On the issue of " loan guarantees," Tom correctly
explained the correct context. Government loans in that context CERTAINlY doesn't contradict
the fact that what Romney wanted was bankruptcy to come from the private sector

Now tell me(from post 9)

from the article at the very beginning of the article


IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for
yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.



Simple question.

Did the execs of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get their bailout?

Is it the same bailout that Obama gave them?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:56 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown

No offense, but thats a lie!

Read the last 3 short paragraphs. You do realize that "Federal government" does not mean "private sector" right?

Here it is yet again, and I'll even underline it: If you dont beleiev me, click on the link again and read the 3rd to the last paragraph!

" The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check. "

lie?

Like I said

"
seems everytime you use the word "lie" or "lying" you are in fact lying."

beyond that you either playing dumb or are dumb when you interpret
"The federal government should provide guarantees for "post-bankruptcy"
the way you do

WTF do you think "post-bankruptcy" means?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Its shocking to me how hard many Libs will work to not only refuse to see the truth, but to parse words, revise the definitions of words, and mostly to ignore the fact that their own guy has been misleading EVERYONE during the whole election cycle!

But whats really funny, is that Romney was called "too liberal" for years until just a couple months ago by the left. Then they stated claiming the exact opposite by saying "he's a right wing extremist", but now they are back to "he's a liberal"....

Nope, he is a center left Rep who has done a better job for the people of his state, and worked with the other side(Dems), whereas Obama has generally failed in the high expectations that were PROMISED to us, and he has been completely partisan by blaming all his mistakes on the other party!

In other words, all that "Hope and change" crap was just that, crap....
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

LOL!!

So you can refute mine or anyone's else point so you resort to some rant about
Romney's etc....

pathetic but predictiable

but as far as your pathetic and predictable braindead rant goes

I've always stated Romney has no core or principles. He goes every which way
the wind goes

can you tell where he really stands on a position and how you know its his position?

take Afghanistan. What is his position on Afghanistan and how do you know that is
his position?


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

and as far as doing a great job in Mass as governor

look at his approval ratings when he left office

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....overnor


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How about President Bush's opinion?

"On Dec. 10, the House approved a compromise auto bailout, but it died in the Senate at the hands of senators from right-to-work states. It was an unfortunate outcome to important bipartisan efforts designed to help a lynchpin of America's manufacturing might.
The irony is that if the Senate had approved the compromise plan, President Bush would not have had to use bank rescue funds -- known as "TARP" -- and lawmakers, not President Barack Obama, would have called the shots on the loan conditions for automakers.
In the wake of the collapse of congressional efforts, President Bush was under enormous pressure from bailout opponents to not use TARP funds to help automakers. He had to weigh the proper role of government in private enterprise versus its role in safeguarding the broader health and stability of the economy. I urged him to come down on the side of the latter.
Ultimately, the president agreed, concluding that these were not ordinary times and that if he allowed the free market to take its course, "it would almost certainly lead to disorderly bankruptcy and liquidation for the automakers."
He went on to say that "allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action," and that he recognized that if help was not extended, "it would leave the next president to confront the demise of a major American industry in his first days of office."


George W. Bush deserves credit for the auto bailout: George V. Voinovich
http://www.cleveland.com/opinion....it.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:10 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:56 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown

No offense, but thats a lie!

Read the last 3 short paragraphs. You do realize that "Federal government" does not mean "private sector" right?

Here it is yet again, and I'll even underline it: If you dont beleiev me, click on the link again and read the 3rd to the last paragraph!

" The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check. "

lie?

Like I said

"
seems everytime you use the word "lie" or "lying" you are in fact lying."

beyond that you either playing dumb or are dumb when you interpret
"The federal government should provide guarantees for "post-bankruptcy"
the way you do

WTF do you think "post-bankruptcy" means?

When you keep claiming that Romney was only calling for "private sector funds" you are lying!

What does Federal gov't mean?

You are back to personal insults again(aside from dishonesty), but yet its seems that YOU dont uderstand what bankruptcy means! It DOES NOT mean that you go under and disappear! It means you go through a "managed" process where you get your sh*t in order, learn to run your finances or your company more efficiently, then you come back stronger than before!

You DONT go out of business, just like the millions of people who have declared bankruptcy will rebuild their lives, and get their acts together again.. I personally know private citicens AND smal businesses who have gone through bankruptcy WITHOUT any federal gov't loan guarantess, and they are back. The difference is, GM wouldnt have shut down completely for years, as they would have been given LOAN GUARANTEES from the GOV"T to ensure they stay in business!

Please stop with the insults and the condescension, especially when you dont know what the H*ll you are talking about!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:12 pm)
QUOTE
Nope, he is a center left Rep who has done a better job for the people of his state, and worked with the other side(Dems), whereas Obama has generally failed in the high expectations that were PROMISED to us, and he has been completely partisan by blaming all his mistakes on the other party!

This is pure BS. The idea that Romney being able to work with dems in Mass is a reflection of
Romney's ability to work with the other side rather than the Democrats in Mass being able to
work with Republicans is pure BS.

Even more pathetic is the idea that Obama has been partisan. He has BENT OVER BACKWARDS in
numerous ways only for Republicans to obstruct on almost every level for the purpose of defeating him.

This is pure BS. Its the EXACT OPPOSITE


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:10 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 11:05 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:56 pm)
QUOTE

(CharlesTheHammer @ Oct. 24 2012, 10:53 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Oct. 24 2012, 3:07 pm)
QUOTE
I'd linked there long ago.

Let Detroit Go Bankrupt...

Last para:
"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

Romney to Detroit: "You're On Your Own" redux. With Romney seeing his "role" as offering some sort of guarantee IF they could find private funding, which they hadn't been able to do up to that point: hence the Bush bailout.. Which smells an awful like his "pre-existing condition" assurance, his "plan" provides for coverage, as long as you already have coverage. Once a person lost coverage, wait for it, you're on your own: and NOT covered.

So Romney viewed their bankruptcy as a good thing. Must be like that "dignity of work" eh? More "Change and Hope" from Mittens. Like his entire fiscal policy. George W. Bush disagreed (on the auto companies) so this isn't actually much of a Democratic Party member position. Heck, IIRC, RYAN voted for those funds.

So in Mitts world as delivered by the OP just how does one have a "bankruptcy" without actually, per the title of the piece, going, you know, "Bankrupt"?

Wow! Thats all I have to say Wow!

I even give you the original source from your own left wing people, and you still refuse to see truth!

Romney is left-wing?

We have all read the article from Romney

Bottom line is that his so called solution relied on lending from the private sector during the financial meltdown

No offense, but thats a lie!

Read the last 3 short paragraphs. You do realize that "Federal government" does not mean "private sector" right?

Here it is yet again, and I'll even underline it: If you dont beleiev me, click on the link again and read the 3rd to the last paragraph!

" The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check. "

lie?

Like I said

"
seems everytime you use the word "lie" or "lying" you are in fact lying."

beyond that you either playing dumb or are dumb when you interpret
"The federal government should provide guarantees for "post-bankruptcy"
the way you do

WTF do you think "post-bankruptcy" means?

When you keep claiming that Romney was only calling for "private sector funds" you are lying!

What does Federal gov't mean?

You are back to personal insults again(aside from dishonesty), but yet its seems that YOU dont uderstand what bankruptcy means! It DOES NOT mean that you go under and disappear! It means you go through a "managed" process where you get your sh*t in order, learn to run your finances or your company more efficiently, then you come back stronger than before!

You DONT go out of business, just like the millions of people who have declared bankruptcy will rebuild their lives, and get their acts together again.. I personally know private citicens AND smal businesses who have gone through bankruptcy WITHOUT any federal gov't loan guarantess, and they are back. The difference is, GM wouldnt have shut down completely for years, as they would have been given LOAN GUARANTEES from the GOV"T to ensure they stay in business!

Please stop with the insults and the condescension, especially when you dont know what the H*ll you are talking about!

So you keep on accusing people of lying even though its clear
if anyone is lying its you

what does ""post-bankruptcy" mean?

What does "Post" mean?

Now please post the quote from me that would lead you to believe I don't know what "bankruptcy" means?

and YOU STOP throwing around the word "lie" especially when you don't know WTF you're taking about


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CTH

answer my question in post 9


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 24 2012, 11:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Uh oh, the a*s*t*e*r*i*s*k*s are coming out! Avert the eyes of the children!
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