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Topic: 60 years old, and still the baddest< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 4:11 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The B-52 bomber's first flight was in 1952, over sixty year ago.

The NEWEST B-52 was delivered in Oct 1962, over half a century ago.  Some of the pilots now flying the B-52 are flying the same plane their grandfathers flew.

Most won't care, but I think that's cool.

And in some odd way perhaps kinda sad.

How so?  It's one thing to inherit your grand dad's old 1962 Corvette Sting Ray.  Last of the solid axle Vettes.  That would be way cool.

But would it be cool to go to war in a vehicle that had been in service for 50 continuous years and that your grand dad drove during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  In some ways, kinda cool.  In other ways, kinda sad.

Yeah I know, a lot of folks don't care.  That's OK too.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 4:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well Ken, can we assume we got out money's worth out of them?   What about the C-130?

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 4:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I saw a show the other night that stated they may go for 90 yrs.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 4:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

60 years?  Wow!
Time flys
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 5:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I clearly remember, while riding in a shuttle bus along the highway going off Clark AB, that you knew you were at least halfway to the base's main gate when you saw the towering tails of the B-52s, parked along the tall fence topped with concertina.

Though the Filipino government wouldn't allow bombing runs on North Vietnam from the Philippines, Clark was one of the few bases in the South China Sea area that could support and maintain the B-52, so the bomb runs were staged from Clark, but "touched down" somewhere in S. Vietnam before continuing their run to N. Vietnam.

Welcome back again, Ken! I understand where you're coming from here, I believe: you're attempting to support the $2 trillion increase of that other Mormon, aren't you?

The B-52 has been largely supplanted by advanced technology, just as the old technology I used in the P.I. has been supplanted by satellites. But you know that, don't you?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 5:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Oct. 26 2012, 5:19 pm)
QUOTE
I clearly remember, while riding in a shuttle bus along the highway going off Clark AB, that you knew you were at least halfway to the base's main gate when you saw the towering tails of the B-52s, parked along the tall fence topped with concertina.

Though the Filipino government wouldn't allow bombing runs on North Vietnam from the Philippines, Clark was one of the few bases in the South China Sea area that could support and maintain the B-52, so the bomb runs were staged from Clark, but "touched down" somewhere in S. Vietnam before continuing their run to N. Vietnam.

Welcome back again, Ken! I understand where you're coming from here, I believe: you're attempting to support the $2 trillion increase of that other Mormon, aren't you?

The B-52 has been largely supplanted by advanced technology, just as the old technology I used in the P.I. has been supplanted by satellites. But you know that, don't you?

As long as we've got more B52's than we had in 1916, I say we're good.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 6:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wonder if they still don't have a toilet.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 6:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Slim Pickens approves this message.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 11:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Oct. 26 2012, 5:19 pm)
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The best scene out of all the Stanley Kubrick movies, though I still think my favorite movie of his was "Spartacus". Saw it in the theatre, though four or five years after it came out, and have the DVD and the Blu-ray.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 26 2012, 11:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A long time ago before many of you, I was crawling around inside those planes removing and installing electronic equipment, some of which like radar chaff containers was rather heavy.   Sort of primed me for carrying heavy backpacking gear haha.   Even back then, the planes were showing their age.  Amazing some are still viable.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 12:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Pima Air and Space Museum is good place to see a few of them up close.  It's been too long since I've paid a visit.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 1:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The U-2 outlived its successor the SR71 by 10 years.

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 10:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"And in some odd way perhaps kinda sad."

WADR Ken what is sad about a GOOD investment when it comes to our National and Global Defense? You're happy we spend more than the next 10 Nations combined on Defense? You want to buy any surplus Seargent York Tanks?

We invested in those great planes. There is no reason to gut our return on that investment before its obsolete. We can destroy the world several times over with just those planes, and the world knows it. We don't need to build new ones, out of work Defense contractors can work on...domestic needs.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 11:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yep, it really is hard not to love an airplane that must be credited with killing hundreds of thousands of rice-eaters and goat ropers.

Come on, people, get a grip.  Sheesh.

And what's this I hear about no toilet?  And probably no stewardi either and of course no in-flight movies or peanuts or nuthin' else, right?  Just bombs and stuff?

Just what kind of an airline are we runnin' here anyway?

Drake
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 3:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Oct. 26 2012, 5:19 pm)
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Welcome back again, Ken! I understand where you're coming from here, I believe: you're attempting to support the $2 trillion increase of that other Mormon, aren't you?

For some people it's always about politics.  Kinda sad.

But no, I just think its cool.  Like my thread about the Marines buying Colt 45s again, a century old design.  That was cool too, with zero political overtones.

I'm a Boeing employee and work on lots of different Boeing products, including the B-52 and the KC-135, both about the same age.  Obama's Air Force One (technically VC-25) is nearly a 50 year old Boeing design and the specific airframe he's flying in was built 30 years ago.  Marine One (technically VH-3D) is an even older design (first flight 1959) and the specific airframe he's flying in was built over 34 years ago.

Hopefully come January both will be used to transport a different president.

QUOTE
The B-52 has been largely supplanted by advanced technology, just as the old technology I used in the P.I. has been supplanted by satellites. But you know that, don't you?
Indeed.  That's why there's only 67 Buffs left in the inventory out of hundreds built.  And yet there is NOTHING that can do exactly what this "old technology" can do.  And so the Buff soldiers on.  And will continue to do so until at least 2040.  By which time they will be flown by the grandchildren of the grandchildren of the folks who first flew them.  Way way cool.  And somehow still kinda sad.  And NO, not for political reasons, but sad because today's "advanced technology" still can't quite do what this old bird does and has been doing for over half a century.  Way cool.

And BTW, the satellite systems that "supplanted" the "old technology" in the P.I. is STILL dependent on the old U-2, yet another design from the 1950's that's STILL in front-line service today.  Way cool.

And its kinda sad that an old fart like you is so absorbed by politics that you cannot appreciate it.  Your loss.

As for the $2 trillion increase; you actually believe Obama's campaign propaganda the way Obama believes his own propaganda, huh?  Like Mitt's 5 trillion tax cut.  And Mitt wanted GM to go under.  And Mitt wants to kill of Big Bird.  And Mitt killed a woman who had cancer.  Go right ahead and believe what you want.  Makes no difference to me.  In the meantime I'll enjoy life's little gems with no political overtones.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 3:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Oct. 27 2012, 10:49 am)
QUOTE
WADR Ken what is sad about a GOOD investment when it comes to our National and Global Defense? You're happy we spend more than the next 10 Nations combined on Defense? You want to buy any surplus Seargent York Tanks?

We invested in those great planes. There is no reason to gut our return on that investment before its obsolete. We can destroy the world several times over with just those planes, and the world knows it. We don't need to build new ones, out of work Defense contractors can work on...domestic needs.

Respectfully, you have misunderstood me.  The melancholy has nothing to do with politics.  It has to do with technology.  The "Advanced technology" of today STILL cannot do what the B-52 does and has been doing for over a half century.  Imagine using WW1 designs to fight WW2.  Now imagine using Civil War designs to fight WW2.  It's great to get your money's worth, but there's an odd sadness when the best your money can buy is over 60 years old.

(Actually, we're STILL using pre-WW1 designs in today's military.  It's the old Colt 45 pistol.  And WW1 designs today, like the old Ma Deuce.)
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drake @ Oct. 27 2012, 11:39 am)
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Yep, it really is hard not to love an airplane that must be credited with killing hundreds of thousands of rice-eaters and goat ropers.

Come on, people, get a grip.  Sheesh.

Those same "people" could ask the same of you.

The B-52 is a tool.  People decide what that tool does.  In the case of Vietnam, it was used to kill rice-eaters and goat ropers.  In Kuwait it was used to kill rug heads.  Most of the time it was used to turn petroleum into carbon dioxide to accelerate global warming.

Get a grip.  Sheesh.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 5:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

People can fall in love with a tool, especially if it is a high-tech, high-capability whoop-ass means to project power;  vicarious participation in unapologetic strength.  Heady stuff, beautiful bird become my own power, though the actuality is that me being like you, we remain pretty much insignificant as we stand there under her tail feathers, being all that we can be.  

Of course we are idiots, this is a fact.

But still...imagine...bombs booming so loud you think your head is going to crack and your toes go numb from the vibration coming up out of the ground and ain't it all so cool and so are we and here she is and I remember her in grade school and my grandpa flew her, too.

Yeah I get it, really I do.  She is not my girlfriend.  So what?

So this.  Worship power embodied in a machine and you are well on your way to accepting Shock 'N Awe and all the other crap that cripples man.  You will end up admiring the machine, and if you already do, well, now you know how it happened.  I suggest that the admiration of such machines is inappropriate and should not be practiced.  I already know what man is I do not require further instruction.  I suggest that the emotional link between a man and a machine of death is based upon the vicarious power extended by the machine to the man and that emotional link sets him up to use the machine.

That's how it actually works.

Just a machine?  Not bloodly likely, mate.  Take a harder look.

Drake
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 7:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drake @ Oct. 27 2012, 4:51 pm)
QUOTE
People can fall in love with a tool, especially if it is a high-tech, high-capability whoop-ass means to project power;  vicarious participation in unapologetic strength.  Heady stuff, beautiful bird become my own power, though the actuality is that me being like you, we remain pretty much insignificant as we stand there under her tail feathers, being all that we can be.  

Of course we are idiots, this is a fact.

But still...imagine...bombs booming so loud you think your head is going to crack and your toes go numb from the vibration coming up out of the ground and ain't it all so cool and so are we and here she is and I remember her in grade school and my grandpa flew her, too.

Yeah I get it, really I do.  She is not my girlfriend.  So what?

So this.  Worship power embodied in a machine and you are well on your way to accepting Shock 'N Awe and all the other crap that cripples man.  You will end up admiring the machine, and if you already do, well, now you know how it happened.  I suggest that the admiration of such machines is inappropriate and should not be practiced.  I already know what man is I do not require further instruction.  I suggest that the emotional link between a man and a machine of death is based upon the vicarious power extended by the machine to the man and that emotional link sets him up to use the machine.

That's how it actually works.

Just a machine?  Not bloodly likely, mate.  Take a harder look.

Drake

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Damn, Drake ... you know us better than we do  :cool:


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 7:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Oct. 27 2012, 2:20 pm)
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For some people it's always about politics.  Kinda sad.
Well, Ken, you could have posted this in the "Trailhead" forum, but you chose to put it here, in "The Political Arena". Lately, there seems to be an epidemic of people who think that "posting in the TPA is 'not political'".

(KenV @ Oct. 27 2012, 2:20 pm)
QUOTE
Hopefully come January both will be used to transport a different president.
Like we didn't know, eh?

You claim to have voted for Obama in 2008, but I doubt it. What, for God's sake, would now make anyone switch from Obama to a guy who is so clearly opposed to what Obama has pretty much stood, with barely any changes at all, for that whole time? Is it because you worshipped at that shrine before, but thought McCain/Palin was just "too dangerous" or "not conservative enough"? Do you think Romney/Ryan is less dangerous? Is it because you feel it's Obama's fault that he wasn't able to completely "follow through" on his promises? Or is it...wait for it...because the guy running now is a...ah...ah...Merman? Is it that? So you were never really all that serious about your convictions before? Or did you simply not really have any convictions? Or have you been "faking it" all along in order to play the "I used to be a Democrat" card?

You know: I don't really care. You're the one with the religion created by a cracker wearing "seeing stones" wired to his glasses, while looking into his hat. That's your choice, and, of course, Romney's too. From my perspective, it's somewhat strange, and rather more "creepy" - even more than the upcoming holiday. But HYOH. Get out there and lobby, along with your fave boy and his Catholic friend, for no gay marriage - but reserve the right, for both you and him, to marry the dead. Makes good sense to me. Hey! Don't forget to wear your magic shorts! I'm sure your "life decisions" will make a lot more sense with them on!
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 27 2012, 9:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Drake, you're a poet. Great post.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 28 2012, 6:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Oct. 26 2012, 1:11 pm)
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The B-52 bomber's first flight was in 1952, over sixty year ago.

The NEWEST B-52 was delivered in Oct 1962, over half a century ago.  Some of the pilots now flying the B-52 are flying the same plane their grandfathers flew.

Most won't care, but I think that's cool.

And in some odd way perhaps kinda sad.

How so?  It's one thing to inherit your grand dad's old 1962 Corvette Sting Ray.  Last of the solid axle Vettes.  That would be way cool.

But would it be cool to go to war in a vehicle that had been in service for 50 continuous years and that your grand dad drove during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  In some ways, kinda cool.  In other ways, kinda sad.

Yeah I know, a lot of folks don't care.  That's OK too.

it's sickening that you crave going to war, killing anonymous humans in a vehicle that your grand dad also craved killing anonymous humans in....

the only reason that the b-52 is still used is because it's very efficient at killing everything in it's path with great accuracy.  even the soviets never conceived of such an efficient killing machine as the b-52.

and you say it's a political view... no, it's a humanist view.


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 7:12 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder how well this plane do against a country with a viable air force?

This antique is just being kept alive by some politicians who want to keep their job.


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(Raznation @ Oct. 29 2012, 4:12 am)
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I wonder how well this plane do against a country with a viable air force?

This antique is just being kept alive by some politicians who want to keep their job.

this antique is kept alive for the purpose of delivering "shock and awe" in a big way to any us enemy. and even though i am not a big supporter of us military aggression, i agree that the b-52 needs to remain in service. it's the only heavy bomber in the us arsenal, and we do still have a lot of enemies around the world that don't mess with us, because they know we could destroy them in a heartbeat....

but, a lone b-52 by itself, with no fighter support would be an easy target for any country with a viable fighter plane force. that would be jet fighter, not a biplane with a machine gun....................


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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 9:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Oct. 26 2012, 4:24 pm)
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Well Ken, can we assume we got out money's worth out of them?   What about the C-130?

Hi...


Yup, the Hercs were...and still are...a great plane. Especially when they found out how to keep the wings from falling off...!!

I've known many civilian Herc drivers. Both the plane and their drivers were of a hardy type.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 9:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Speaking of sad old things America still holds on to:

1) Organized religion
2) The drug war
3) Gays can't get married
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Oct. 27 2012, 9:17 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Oct. 27 2012, 2:20 pm)
QUOTE
For some people it's always about politics.  Kinda sad.
Well, Ken, you could have posted this in the "Trailhead" forum, but you chose to put it here, in "The Political Arena".

Puhlease.  When I post a gun related topic in the trailhead forum, it gets moved here.  When I post a spiritual (not religious, spiritual) topic in the trailhead forum, it gets moved here.  Neither topic is political in the real world.  On this site, they are political.  If you've got a problem with that, take it up with management.

QUOTE
You claim to have voted for Obama in 2008, but I doubt it.
You are welcome to doubt anything you want.  For ecample, I'm certain there is a God.  You doubt it and occasionally deny it.  I don't really care.

QUOTE
What, for God's sake, would now make anyone switch from Obama to a guy who is so clearly opposed to what Obama has pretty much stood, with barely any changes at all, for that whole time?
For God's sake?  I thought you viewed him as a myth?  Or am i mistaken?

I announced my vote for Obama not long after his election and LOOOONG before Romney became the R nominee.  When I voted for Obama, it was primarliy because I could not vote for McCain.  Since then I've stated several times that I was unlikely to vote for Obama again.  I'm still not absolutely certain I can vote for Romney, but it seems much more likely than it did two or three months ago.  But regardless of who I vote for, I do hope Obama does not get a second term.  He has been a gross disappointment to me.  There are many many independents like me who will not vote for Obama again.  And face the truth, it's independents like me that will decide the next president.  Your vote is likely irrelevant.

QUOTE
Is it because you worshipped at that shrine before, but thought McCain/Palin was just "too dangerous" or "not conservative enough"? Do you think Romney/Ryan is less dangerous? Is it because you feel it's Obama's fault that he wasn't able to completely "follow through" on his promises? Or is it...wait for it...because the guy running now is a...ah...ah...Merman? Is it that?
I've heard that several times from you guys.  It was a ludicrous assertion all the previous times and it remains so.  If that were remotely true I'd support Harry Reid, yet I find Harry Reid even less tolerable than Obama.

QUOTE
Or have you been "faking it" all along in order to play the "I used to be a Democrat" card?
I do NOT claim to be a democrat or a former democrat.  But I have said repeatedly that I have voted for a number of democrats.  Obama was one.

QUOTE
Hey! Don't forget to wear your magic shorts! I'm sure your "life decisions" will make a lot more sense with them on!
I wear my "magic BVDs" every day. And have for over 4 decades.  So have Harry Reid and Romney.  That seems to trouble you.

If you lived in Nevada, could you vote for a Senator that wore "magic BVDs"?  Or are you in real life as big a religious bigot as you work so hard to give that impresssion here?
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 4:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drake @ Oct. 27 2012, 5:51 pm)
QUOTE
People can fall in love with a tool, especially if it is a high-tech, high-capability whoop-ass means to project power;  vicarious participation in unapologetic strength.  

An interesting bit of projection, but false.  I'm an engineer by trade and I find lots of technology cool, especially aviation related technology.  To equate such coolness with "love" or "falling in love" is laughable.  And sadly pathetic.

I have the same feelings of coolness toward the U-2 and C-135, both 1950's aircraft with ZERO weapons capability that are used extensively by NASA and others for science.  I've already stated I also find the 1962 Corvette Sting Ray "way cool".  No "love" there either, and no association with weapons and warfare either.  

QUOTE
Yeah I get it, really I do.
And yet clearly you don't.  Engineering coolness has NOTHING to do with "love" and the fact that the B-52 is a weapon system is peripheral to its engineering coolness.  I can also see a samuria sword and marvel at the metalurgical art that created it and considering that they are hundreds of years old and still cannot be exactly duplicated, that is way way way cool.

The same is true of Stradivarius violins.  An ancient engineering work of art that still cannot be duplicated.  The same is true of such ancient engineering marvels as the pyramids, the Roman road system, the European cathedrals, and much more.  And no, there is no "love" involved in any of these things  That seems to have been unabashed projection on your part.

QUOTE
So this.  Worship power embodied in a machine and you are well on your way to accepting Shock 'N Awe and all the other crap that cripples man.
Wow.  You've gone from "love" to "worship".  The level of projection in your post is amazing.

QUOTE
Just a machine?  Not bloodly likely, mate.
Of course not, to leftists who attach emotions like "love" and "worship" to the damndest things.

QUOTE
Take a harder look.
I look at it with an engineer's eye.  I see a semi-monocoque structure made mostly of 2023-T6 aluminum and the inherent fatigue and corrosion characteristics of such a structure.  I see an aero structure designed with a very specific and single mission in mind and the narrow load spectrum associated with that use.  And then I see that aerostructure being operated WAY outside its design load spectrum.  I also see an aero structure that has been modified numerous times with one modification often overlaying one or several past modifications, with all the complexities and risks that entails.  I see the same complex machine being piloted by humans that span three or more generations, with the grand children effectively as clueless about their grand parents' world as the grandparents were clueless about their grandchildren's future world.  The world has changed tremendously in those 60 years, and somehow this complex machine has stayed more relevant than most of the people from the world that created it.  

I think that's cool.  Even more cool is that people from today's world cannot quite match it.  In a world where technical relevancy is often measured in weeks, this over half century old piece of complex machinery remains not only relevant, but irreplaceable.  By all measures, that has gotta be cool.

And I think its quite sad and tellingly pathetic that there are so many people here who equate that "coolness" with "love" and "worship".  What a sterile and impoverished world those people must live in.

You appear to be right.  Many people are idiots.  It would seem that many of the responses to my OP have proven that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 29 2012, 8:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Oct. 29 2012, 2:47 pm)
QUOTE

(Gabby @ Oct. 27 2012, 9:17 pm)
QUOTE

(KenV @ Oct. 27 2012, 2:20 pm)
QUOTE
For some people it's always about politics.  Kinda sad.
Well, Ken, you could have posted this in the "Trailhead" forum, but you chose to put it here, in "The Political Arena".

Puhlease.  When I post a gun related topic in the trailhead forum, it gets moved here.  When I post a spiritual (not religious, spiritual) topic in the trailhead forum, it gets moved here.  Neither topic is political in the real world.  On this site, they are political.  If you've got a problem with that, take it up with management.

QUOTE
You claim to have voted for Obama in 2008, but I doubt it.
You are welcome to doubt anything you want.  For ecample, I'm certain there is a God.  You doubt it and occasionally deny it.  I don't really care.

QUOTE
What, for God's sake, would now make anyone switch from Obama to a guy who is so clearly opposed to what Obama has pretty much stood, with barely any changes at all, for that whole time?
For God's sake?  I thought you viewed him as a myth?  Or am i mistaken?

I announced my vote for Obama not long after his election and LOOOONG before Romney became the R nominee.  When I voted for Obama, it was primarliy because I could not vote for McCain.  Since then I've stated several times that I was unlikely to vote for Obama again.  I'm still not absolutely certain I can vote for Romney, but it seems much more likely than it did two or three months ago.  But regardless of who I vote for, I do hope Obama does not get a second term.  He has been a gross disappointment to me.  There are many many independents like me who will not vote for Obama again.  And face the truth, it's independents like me that will decide the next president.  Your vote is likely irrelevant.

QUOTE
Is it because you worshipped at that shrine before, but thought McCain/Palin was just "too dangerous" or "not conservative enough"? Do you think Romney/Ryan is less dangerous? Is it because you feel it's Obama's fault that he wasn't able to completely "follow through" on his promises? Or is it...wait for it...because the guy running now is a...ah...ah...Merman? Is it that?
I've heard that several times from you guys.  It was a ludicrous assertion all the previous times and it remains so.  If that were remotely true I'd support Harry Reid, yet I find Harry Reid even less tolerable than Obama.

QUOTE
Or have you been "faking it" all along in order to play the "I used to be a Democrat" card?
I do NOT claim to be a democrat or a former democrat.  But I have said repeatedly that I have voted for a number of democrats.  Obama was one.

QUOTE
Hey! Don't forget to wear your magic shorts! I'm sure your "life decisions" will make a lot more sense with them on!
I wear my "magic BVDs" every day. And have for over 4 decades.  So have Harry Reid and Romney.  That seems to trouble you.

If you lived in Nevada, could you vote for a Senator that wore "magic BVDs"?  Or are you in real life as big a religious bigot as you work so hard to give that impresssion here?

Puhleese, see the Bill Maher thread.

But, maybe you shouldn't. You're not smart enough to understand.
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