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Old Frank 
Group: Members
Posts: 624
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 7:58 am |
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http://news.yahoo.com/paul-ry....cs.html
"Paul Ryan squeezed in time on a four-stop, five-state day for a conference call with evangelical voters Sunday evening, issuing a warning about a second Obama term saying the president is putting the country on a "dangerous path" that compromises "Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values."
Evangelical leader Ralph Reed's influential group, the Faith and Freedom Coalition, hosted the call and Reed said "tens of thousands" of Evangelical Christians were listening in.
The GOP vice presidential nominee said in the "critical battleground states" it will make a "big difference" if people "are worried about…whether or not we're going to go down the path the president has put us on."
"It's a dangerous path," Ryan said on his opening remarks on the call, which has been rescheduled at least once. "It's a path that grows government, restricts freedom and liberty, and compromises those values, those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us such a great an exceptional nation in the first place."........
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 2
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2348
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 8:08 am |
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Judeo-Christian values have included segregation, misogyny and in one state polygamy. I'm sure that's what Ryan was referring to.
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| Post Number: 3
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
Posts: 3855
Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 8:47 am |
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Mourdoch, Santorum and Ryan are good examples of wing nuts that think that their right to religious expression includes the right to impose THEIR values and beliefs on everyone else.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 4
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
Posts: 5308
Joined: Feb. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 9:28 am |
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Religion is the last (or is it the first?) refuge of these scoundrels. They scare a bunch of low-information voters into believing their religion and its values will be in grave danger if they don't vote Republican.
It's a transparently cynical manipulation, but sadly, an effective one in this country of ours.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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| Post Number: 5
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4071
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 9:35 am |
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But not effective enough!
Reelect Oboma, that's Bronco 'Boma to you younger fans. heh
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| Post Number: 6
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| Post Number: 7
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 9:54 am |
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I'm not sure what sort of crazy reads the bible and Ayn Rand and interprets them as having the same fundamental message?
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| Post Number: 8
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orygawn
Sleeping Bag Man!
Group: Members
Posts: 5688
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:06 pm |
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Modern Judeo-Christian values:
- Let the poor and the sick fend for themselves
- Endless war
I hope Obama does "compromise these values"
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -- Galileo
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| Post Number: 9
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8462
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:13 pm |
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You know reading many right-wing "Chrisitan" fundie posts from people like N2
and seeing first hand the kind deceit they can engage in political campaigns leads
me to suspect that many of these right-wing fundies like n2 don't believe a word
of the "Christianity" they profess to believe in.
But more than that I get the impression that maybe they profess they are Christian
to compensate for the evidence they present to the public that so often shows them
to be hypocrites and liars thinking just by giving themselves the label "Chrisitan"
that it will make people think they are of high character when they are not. I
suspect this applies to N2
BTW same thing seems to happen quite a bit when people call themselves patriots or
as the saying goes "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrels"
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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| Post Number: 10
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| Post Number: 11
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8462
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:30 pm |
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See
You just proved my point again
Even now in this thread you're lying
What kind of person call themselves a Christian and lies so much?
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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| Post Number: 12
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TehipiteTom
Group: Members
Posts: 5279
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:36 pm |
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These people have it right:
And people like Ryan and N2theWild, with their bigotry and their ignorance and their smug certitude about both, have it woefully wrong.
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If tautologies are outlawed, only outlaws will use tautologies.
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| Post Number: 13
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8462
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:41 pm |
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but maybe even more than their bigotry and ignorance is their hypocrisy and lies.
Just look at the dishonesty of N2
Isn't it incredible?
and he claims to be a "Christian"
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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| Post Number: 15
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Marmotstew
Group: Members
Posts: 8703
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:46 pm |
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I pray to god we don't elect this religous nut. Why can't they leave religion at the door when they enter office? Or in the garbage.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 16
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| Post Number: 17
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TehipiteTom
Group: Members
Posts: 5279
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 12:58 pm |
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(N2theWild @ Nov. 05 2012, 9:40 am)
QUOTE Yes, saying that 'somebody sounds sore from being called out' is surely hate speech material.
Well done.
No, that's just petty and petulant.
Your genuinely hateful comments are mostly in other threads.
ETA:
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(Marmotstew @ Nov. 05 2012, 12:46 pm)
QUOTE I pray to god we don't elect this religous nut. Why can't they leave religion at the door when they enter office? Or in the garbage. What has he done thus far to make his religious views political?
Voting repeatedly for forced childbirth, for one thing.
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If tautologies are outlawed, only outlaws will use tautologies.
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| Post Number: 18
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Marmotstew
Group: Members
Posts: 8703
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:11 pm |
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"I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us of everything we do."
Paul Ryan.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 19
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Marmotstew
Group: Members
Posts: 8703
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:14 pm |
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Religion was probably cool and somewhat useful. Way back before man discovered indoor plumbing. But what role does it serve in a civilized world that knows what they great bright light in the sky is?
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 20
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N2theWild
Group: Members
Posts: 1641
Joined: Feb. 2008
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:14 pm |
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Oh ok. So he is pro-life and believes in other things some religious folks do.
I was assuming you may have meant he plans on preaching from the Oval Office and shove religion down people's throats.
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For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (2 Timothy 4:3)
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| Post Number: 21
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
Posts: 5308
Joined: Feb. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 1:45 pm |
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(N2theWild @ Nov. 05 2012, 8:52 am)
QUOTE
(Drift Woody @ Nov. 05 2012, 9:28 am)
QUOTE Religion is the last (or is it the first?) refuge of these scoundrels. They scare a bunch of low-information voters into believing their religion and its values will be in grave danger if they don't vote Republican.
It's a transparently cynical manipulation, but sadly, an effective one in this country of ours. Gee where oh where would anyone get the idea that the liberals were against Christian values? I mean surely the constant Christian bashing by lefties on this forum is no indication huh. I guess them thur creeshans are just easily fooled.
So then, is it your contention that Paul Ryan (and the religious right in general) assess the policies of the Obama administration on the basis of online arguments in forums like this one?
And what, specifically are those government policies that pose such a threat to "Judeo-Christian values"?
Also, in regards to the "lefties" in this forum, I don't think you'll find a single one who would advocate limiting the freedom of anyone to practice their religion. The "bashing" is almost entirely in response to efforts to impose religious beliefs on evryone else through government policy, and to the utter hypocrisy of people who profess Christian values but support warmongering and government policies that comfort the rich while inflicting greater hardship on the poor, the sick, and the elderly.
If anyone is giving Christians a bad name, it's the self-professed Christians themselves. When are you going to open your eyes and see how you've been manipulated by a bunch of money changers in the temple who don't give a damn about you?
"I guess them thur creeshans are just easily fooled."
If you are representative of that group, then yes -- that's an accurate statement.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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| Post Number: 22
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Bateauxdriver
Group: Members
Posts: 1741
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 2:54 pm |
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Christians when given power, burn those different than they are at the stake.
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| Post Number: 23
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| Post Number: 25
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TigerFan
Group: Members
Posts: 2014
Joined: May 2010
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 5:05 pm |
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I didn't realize that "Judeo-Christian values" had anything to say about big government, health care reform and the "trickle-down" theory...
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Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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| Post Number: 26
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Gabby
Group: Members
Posts: 5492
Joined: Jun. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 05 2012, 5:36 pm |
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(Old Frank @ Nov. 05 2012, 6:58 am)
QUOTE "It's a dangerous path," Ryan said on his opening remarks on the call, which has been rescheduled at least once. "It's a path that grows government, restricts freedom and liberty, and compromises those values, those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us such a great an exceptional nation in the first place."
So, as many have explicitly or implicitly stated already, the specific “values” to which Ryan is referring, and to which those who agree with him are referring, are vitally important here to determine what in the hell he’s talking about. Just off the top of my head, I suppose that he’s talking about “being hardworking and frugal and incorporating religious traditions into your daily life”, though I really have no idea. By extension, it would seem, based on his comments, that he’s also talking about encouraging – or perhaps even enforcing - such practices throughout society in general, as a way of sustaining “Judeo-Christian values”.
From the article:
QUOTE "We should not have to sue the federal government to keep our constitutional freedoms," Ryan said, referring to the Catholic Church's lawsuit over the mandate.
"Imagine what he would do if he actually got reelected. It just puts a chill down my spine," Ryan said.
Now, as you may or may not know, the “freedoms” that the Catholic Church has filed a lawsuit over are the “freedoms” associated with being able to, as a church, run a business and hire persons who are not members of the church – and treat them as if they were members of the church. In other words, they are suing for the right to ignore the “values” of their non-church-member employees in deference to their own – as if those employees simply don’t have “values” of their own. No one is forcing the Catholic Church to abandon their beliefs with respect to themselves or the members of their religion.
We have arrived at a point in this country at which the operative argument system is: “My side must win, and then we get to tell you how to run your life.”
For example: Our current federal law on abortion gives each individual, within certain specific limits, the right to choose for themselves. If you choose to have an abortion, you may do that. If you feel that abortions are inappropriate or immoral, then you may choose to not have one. This is fairly accurately called “freedom”. On the other hand, if either side wants to force their opinion on the other side, that is not “freedom”. That is “the tyranny of the majority”. If we want to live together in a reasonable manner, we need to allow choice and some disagreement, without forcing everyone to live to our own standard. You can quibble over whether or not “abortion is murder”, but it isn’t as clear as either side would like to believe. A zygote isn’t the equivalent of a fully functioning adult human, even if you pass a law in an attempt to force the issue. It’s a difficult problem that’s best solved by “dividing the baby” between the two disagreeing parties, and allowing the individual to choose.
I’m personally happy with the current arrangement WRT abortion, though I do believe we shouldn’t need as many abortions as we currently have. A rational approach would reinforce the system of sex education and provide easy access to contraceptives. I suspect that that would itself be construed as violating “Judeo-Christian values” by some persons, but no one is forcing them to use contraceptives or participate in an orgy. They are free to choose their own lifestyle. That’s “freedom”.
I strongly suspect that Paul Ryan isn’t actually talking about “freedom”, except in the sense of his “freedom” to dictate morality and “values” to others.
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"I wouldn't even know how to begin to find the 'peyote lady', even if I thought it was possible in this incarnation...I'm completely tripped out on everyday life."
"By the way: where am I?"
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| Post Number: 27
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
