SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 1 of 212>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Harry Reid on the debt ceiling< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:38 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Harry Reid on Hiking Debt Limit to $18.794T: ‘We’ll Raise It’
By Elizabeth Harrington
November 7, 2012
Subscribe to Elizabeth Harrington's posts
   

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.) (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta)

(CNSNews.com) – Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said on Wednesday that if the $16.394 trillion current legal limit on the federal government's debt must be raised in the next few months by another $2.4 trillion, “We’ll raise it."

That would set the debt limit at $18.794 trillion.

During a Capitol Hill press conference on Wednesday, CNSNews.com asked: “Senator Reid, the Treasury Department said last week that we will hit the debt ceiling again near the end of the year. Are you prepared—will you support—"

“I think the debt ceiling will come after the first of the year,” Reid said. “But please everyone accept this: They tried it before—they, the Republicans.”



“They tried it before – ‘We’re going to shut down the government, and we’re not going to raise the debt ceiling,’” he said. “If they want to go through that again, fine."

“But we’re not going to be held subject to something that was done as a matter of fact in all previous administrations,” Reid said.

http://cnsnews.com/news....aise-it


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10656
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I hope Democrats don't go back down like they did last time.

--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As Reid pointed out, every administration has raised the debt ceiling, but something does need to be done to stop this soaring debt, otherwise, what's acceptable, 50 trillion, 100 trillion, are we ever required to repay our debts, or is the government under different rules than everyone else.

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43821
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

President Obama is NEVER running for office ever again.

Boehner, McConnell etc. are.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
N2theWild Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1645
Joined: Feb. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don't remember the numbers exactly, but it was calculated that even if we stopped all government spending currently, taxed everyone at 100% and added one million dollars per day to the national debt, it would take us 30some years to break even.

Point is, it's never going to be balanced.

Can the can be kicked forever? Something is going to have to give eventually. What happens after that is the scary unknown.


--------------
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (2 Timothy 4:3)
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43821
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 1:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Bull, the GDP is what again?

Oh and it was balanced in the last years of the Clinton administration and forecast to be that way out as far as the CBO could judge: then came Shrub and his magic tax cut axe, along with his unpaid for invasions, wars and giveaway programs.

"How the Deficit Got This Big
By TERESA TRITCH
Published: July 23, 2011


With President Obama and Republican leaders calling for cutting the budget by trillions over the next 10 years, it is worth asking how we got here — from healthy surpluses at the end of the Clinton era, and the promise of future surpluses, to nine straight years of deficits, including the $1.3 trillion shortfall in 2010. The answer is largely the Bush-era tax cuts, war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, and recessions..."
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 4:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 08 2012, 10:48 am)
QUOTE
As Reid pointed out, every administration has raised the debt ceiling, but something does need to be done to stop this soaring debt, otherwise, what's acceptable, 50 trillion, 100 trillion, are we ever required to repay our debts, or is the government under different rules than everyone else.

What's acceptable? Depends on growth. Raw numbers are big and scary (Trillions and TRILLIONS!) but the more significant number is ratio of debt to GDP.  In practical terms, when the economy grows faster than the debt it's effectively reducing the debt.

Are we ever required to repay our debts? Well, yes...but repaying our debts is not the same thing as reducing the debt to zero.

ETA: And the rules for nation-states are obviously different than for private entities in all kinds of ways, but carrying long-term debt isn't one of them.  Most corporations have some level of indebtedness at any given point, and in a lot of cases paying it off isn't exactly a priority; if you can get a better return investing that money (in capital improvements, in R&D, or whatever) than you're paying in interest, then it would be nuts to use it to eliminate your debt.

And that's precisely the point a lot of economists have been making since 2008.  Interest rates are still extremely low--so low that under moderate GDP growth we would be effectively borrowing money for free--so what we should be doing, instead of worrying about short-term deficits*, is putting that money into infrastructure (physical, educational, information) that will pay off in economic growth in the coming decades.


--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 8
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 5:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Nov. 08 2012, 1:26 pm)
QUOTE
instead of worrying about short-term deficits*

*Long-term deficits are another matter...but those are primarily a function of healthcare costs rather than discretionary spending.  Control healthcare costs (private as well as public) and balancing the budget in the long term is a piece of cake.  Fail to control healthcare costs and deficits are the least of our worries, because they will wreck the economy.

--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 9
dayhiker9 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5904
Joined: Apr. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 9:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 08 2012, 10:38 am)
QUOTE
“But we’re not going to be held subject to something that was done as a matter of fact in all previous administrations,” Reid said.

According to Woodward's book , it was the Blue Dog Democrats who first wanted to use the deficit limit as a bargaining chip against Obama (if I remember right) but was persuaded to drop it.

Another tidbit, was Obama knew that this limit was going to be a bargaining chip with the Rs but could not get a deal on it in prior negotiations.  Previously it had been reported that the Ds just assumed no one would use this as a bargaining chip


--------------
" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers."   Krugman
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
dayhiker9 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5904
Joined: Apr. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 08 2012, 10:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

TT, I agree with your post, in fact if you had not stated this I might have, or looked for something from Krugman that says this.  I do have lingering doubts though.

1) if interest rates go up, and our debt is too big it can be SOL , look at Europe.  I don't know if we have reached that point as well, hopefully most of our debt is  in long term bonds, which are not due any time soon.  Edit: Also we can print more dollars, but that is scary too.

Stimulating the economy various ways also makes sense.  And spending on infrastructure is a win win, since this spending will have to be made anyway and as you point out it is cheaper now.  I am not sure how much of our spending fits in this category though.  Still IF this restarts the economy or gets us through a rough patch it will be worth it, but that is the scary part. What if our economy does not restart.

Still the biggest reason for economy to stall right now is the fiscal cliff type austerity program that Europe is trying, so I think continuing to stimulate the economy looks like the answer, though the debt can't be ignored.

Hence taxing the rich, and maybe others might be part of the answer.  Also tax reform, allot of the deduction under the tax reform act of 1986 have been undone thanks to allot of lobbying.  Those were part of the deal of lowering the rates back then. (I think I heard this on Moyer's program)

I also agree the growth in health care costs have been a problem since the 1980s,  but I am not sure why that is part of the current budget deals.  But that is politics.  

The "cuts" in the last deal were way into the future.  And apparently both sides knew that cuts from spending in Afghanistan etc. was just phoney (already counted?), so largely a joke since most could be undone in the future.


--------------
" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers."   Krugman
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
gunslinger Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6410
Joined: Mar. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 7:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For the record, how many of the people here have spent themselves to prosperity?  

My house is paid off, I drive a 17 year old vehicle every day, and I have 0 tax deductions.

I've tried to save my money to gain prosperity.

Am I wrong?


--------------
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 7:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How many businesses use loans? How important is access to finance in the business sector? How did you buy your house?

Also, why do you assume your life is directly correlated to the worlds largest most complex economy?

Access to borrowing is vital to virtually everyone at certain points of their lives and most are able to do this responsibly. There are times when it can be a lifesaver, say if your car broke down after 17 years and you need to get to work, or if a slew of medical bills come up.

We do need to to make long term plans to get debt under control. Throwing an tantrum and refusing to pay the bills we already have isn't the answer though.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 7:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
most are able to do this responsibly.

Therein lies the rub. The US isn't.

The US debt has increased by more than 50% in the last 4 years, over what was accumulated in the previous 240 years.
Interest paid in 2012 to date: Almost $4 trillion. Using that interest alone would pay for a very significant part of the budget.
Total personal debt is now less than the US debt.

US debt clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 8:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well the worlds markets seem to think its responsible. They US can essentially borrow money at almost no cost. Hardly indicative of an irresponsible borrower is it?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 8:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And realistically it's the conservatives who are the irresponsible ones here, refusing at all costs to take measures to increase revenue. They do this because they have blind and absolute faith in an ideology and have made a rather pathetic pledge.

It doesn't appear that the intrusion of reality on Tuesday night is working to jolt you guys out of the fantasy world you're living in. All I'm hearing is whining and pretending that you just need to deliver the message better, not an analysis of the actual policies rejected by America once again.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
Bateauxdriver Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1751
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

George Bush inherited a budget surplus. It was squandered in useless wars and huge increases in the size of government.

Obama inherited two wars, a deep recession and a debt rising like a hot air ballon.  I have no hopes that Obama can balance the budget in the next four years. I think he can slow the rate of rise. Romney would have been a disaster topping Bush.

Our hope rests in a candidate and a congress dedicated to cut government. Gary Johnson and Ron Paul have laid the steps before us. It's up to those of us who truly love our nation to push their ideas forward.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 17
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Clinton, Johnson, and Truman all had balanced budgets. The US had only (comparatively) 970 billion dollars of debt when Carter left office. That's 200+ years of accumulation. Reagan destroyed that trend, managing to tripple the ND in just eight years.

Republicans criticize democrats for a policy of tax and spend. But which is worse, tax and spend, or borrow and spend? What's wrong with pay-go?

George Bush promised in his very first SOTU address that he was going to pay down the ND to zero, and said it would be the fastest any country had ever done so, but when he says, mission accomplished, it doesn't mean much. He doubled it.

Now it appears that Obama will double it in eight years as well. If this trend continues, we could see 100 trillion in a couple decades.


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:31 am)
QUOTE
George Bush inherited a budget surplus. It was squandered in useless wars and huge increases in the size of government.

Obama inherited two wars, a deep recession and a debt rising like a hot air ballon.  I have no hopes that Obama can balance the budget in the next four years. I think he can slow the rate of rise. Romney would have been a disaster topping Bush.

Our hope rests in a candidate and a congress dedicated to cut government. Gary Johnson and Ron Paul have laid the steps before us. It's up to those of us who truly love our nation to push their ideas forward.

I totally agree with you!

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Bateauxdriver Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1751
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Glad there are at least two of us Monte.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 20
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5283
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is why we need a Republican President

Only when a R is in office do the debt and deficits matter

This guy went on to become president.....not a very good one

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Sure....the debt limit has been increased plenty of times under most every administration.

But as i have said before

GWB had a spending problem

BHO has a spending disease

I feel bad for him.....he just got elected to fix the mess he made so much worse :laugh:

Perhaps a good start would be to actually pass a budget

Or even come up with one that someone (of either party) would vote for

Paul Ryan has one they could use!


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 21
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Nov. 08 2012, 4:26 pm)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Nov. 08 2012, 10:48 am)
QUOTE
As Reid pointed out, every administration has raised the debt ceiling, but something does need to be done to stop this soaring debt, otherwise, what's acceptable, 50 trillion, 100 trillion, are we ever required to repay our debts, or is the government under different rules than everyone else.

What's acceptable? Depends on growth. Raw numbers are big and scary (Trillions and TRILLIONS!) but the more significant number is ratio of debt to GDP.  In practical terms, when the economy grows faster than the debt it's effectively reducing the debt.

Are we ever required to repay our debts? Well, yes...but repaying our debts is not the same thing as reducing the debt to zero.

ETA: And the rules for nation-states are obviously different than for private entities in all kinds of ways, but carrying long-term debt isn't one of them.  Most corporations have some level of indebtedness at any given point, and in a lot of cases paying it off isn't exactly a priority; if you can get a better return investing that money (in capital improvements, in R&D, or whatever) than you're paying in interest, then it would be nuts to use it to eliminate your debt.

And that's precisely the point a lot of economists have been making since 2008.  Interest rates are still extremely low--so low that under moderate GDP growth we would be effectively borrowing money for free--so what we should be doing, instead of worrying about short-term deficits*, is putting that money into infrastructure (physical, educational, information) that will pay off in economic growth in the coming decades.

Well yes of course specific rules are different, I wasn't getting into all that. Obviously I was referring to whether or not the government of the US enjoys a different play line than all other individuals, businesses, organizations, states and countries, etc. are we required to repay our debts, or is it just numbers on paper?

Presently, we are servicing the interest, and 40 cents of every dollar the government spends is borrowed! Nothing can continue on like that.

And our offensive military budget is a trillion dollars a year, f#%€ing ridiculous.


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:43 am)
QUOTE
This is why we need a Republican President

Only when a R is in office do the debt and deficits matter

This guy went on to become president.....not a very good one

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Sure....the debt limit has been increased plenty of times under most every administration.

But as i have said before

GWB had a spending problem

BHO has a spending disease

I feel bad for him.....he just got elected to fix the mess he made so much worse :laugh:

Perhaps a good start would be to actually pass a budget

Or even come up with one that someone (of either party) would vote for

Paul Ryan has one they could use!

Ronald Reagan trippled the ND, George Bush doubled the ND, if things continue as they are, Barak Obama will double the ND. So how is it they have a problem and he has a disease?

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5283
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 9:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If our federal govt was subject to the same accounting rules as U.S companies it would have been shut down long ago

States are not able to print money....which is why many of them are imploding from their debt

And probably why we now have 30+ republican governors  :laugh:


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 24
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 10:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well if your talking to me, I made clear I'm NOT referring to accounting rules. Just the basic question, are we required to pay back our debt, or not. If we are, then we better get to the task.


Do you intend to answer my question about problem verses disease?


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 10:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:57 am)
QUOTE
If our federal govt was subject to the same accounting rules as U.S companies it would have been shut down long ago

States are not able to print money....which is why many of them are imploding from their debt

And probably why we now have 30+ republican governors  :laugh:

It's very entertaining watching Republicans trying to sure up the pretend world they live in after the nasty intrusion of reality they experienced on Tuesday.

You, for one, are perhaps the funniest Babble as there at least seems to be some acknowledgment of an issue from other posters.

Pull yourself together.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 26
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10656
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 10:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 09 2012, 9:43 am)
QUOTE
This is why we need a Republican President

Only when a R is in office do the debt and deficits matter

This guy went on to become president.....not a very good one

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Sure....the debt limit has been increased plenty of times under most every administration.

But as i have said before

GWB had a spending problem

BHO has a spending disease

I feel bad for him.....he just got elected to fix the mess he made so much worse :laugh:

Perhaps a good start would be to actually pass a budget

Or even come up with one that someone (of either party) would vote for

Paul Ryan has one they could use!

"This is why we need a Republican President

Only when a R is in office do the debt and deficits matter"

"GWB had a spending problem

BHO has a spending disease"


Your ignorance billBab is incredible


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 27
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Nov. 09 2012, 4:23 am)
QUOTE
For the record, how many of the people here have spent themselves to prosperity?  

My house is paid off, I drive a 17 year old vehicle every day, and I have 0 tax deductions.

I've tried to save my money to gain prosperity.

Am I wrong?

Do you have kids? Did you help pay for their education?  Because that would be an example of spending for the purpose of ensuring future prosperity.

--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 28
dayhiker9 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5904
Joined: Apr. 2003
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 09 2012, 6:57 am)
QUOTE
If our federal govt was subject to the same accounting rules as U.S companies it would have been shut down long ago

States are not able to print money....which is why many of them are imploding from their debt

And probably why we now have 30+ republican governors  :laugh:

The Ds are known as the tax & spend party , while the Rs are known  as the borrow & spend party on the federal level.

On the state level, which is required to have a balanced budget, this becomes less spending for the Rs.  States can have debt for some things, issue bonds and then there are hidden entitlements etc. (Some pension cost are high and not well funded for example)  States though are hurting more from the recession and a loss of revenue (taxes and federal money).

More R govenors? There are allot of red states, because of their largely rural populaltions etc.


--------------
" before you make assertions about numbers, look at the numbers."   Krugman
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 29
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 09 2012, 6:44 am)
QUOTE
Well yes of course specific rules are different, I wasn't getting into all that. Obviously I was referring to whether or not the government of the US enjoys a different play line than all other individuals, businesses, organizations, states and countries, etc. are we required to repay our debts, or is it just numbers on paper?

But that was my point: repaying our debts is not the same thing as eliminating our debt.  You buy a T-bill, you're lending the government money.  The government will repay you. The value of the T-bill is based on the fact that the government will repay you. So yeah, the government does repay its debts, just like any responsible private business.  

But what you're talking about--eliminating the debt--is something entirely different. Neither the government nor any business is under any sort of obligation to do that.  Look at a bunch of randomly selected 10-Ks: at any given point, most corporations are carrying some amount of long-term debt.  That doesn't mean they're irresponsible or in trouble. It means they have more profitable uses for that money than using it to eliminate their debt.  

QUOTE
Presently, we are servicing the interest, and 40 cents of every dollar the government spends is borrowed! Nothing can continue on like that.


Over the long term, no. But over the short term, it depends on what that money is being spent on.  

Bush's deficit spending (tax cuts + wars) was, for all practical purposes, flushed down the toilet (tax cuts can have a stimulative effect, but it's much weaker than other stimulus spending, and tax cuts for the wealthy are the weakest of all).  

Money that is spend on things like infrastructure and education and public safety has an actual tangible return.  It makes sense to go into debt to spend on those things, because the economic benefit (or, if you will, the cost of not spending on them) is greater than the cost of borrowing.  What's more, counter-cyclical spending ("stimulus") is worth borrowing for if it keeps the economy from going over a cliff it can't come back from (as was the case in 2009).

Overall point being, "Debt Bad" or "Deficit Bad" don't really capture the reality of the situation. It all depends on the details.

QUOTE
And our offensive military budget is a trillion dollars a year, f#%€ing ridiculous.


I won't argue with you there--we are spending way too much on defense.  But again, that's not the biggest fiscal problem. The big problem is the growth of healthcare costs (private as well as public), and unless we control those costs (which we may have begun to do, although the job isn't done), the country will go into an economic tailspin in the long term.


--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 30
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43821
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 09 2012, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Nov. 09 2012, 4:23 am)
QUOTE
For the record, how many of the people here have spent themselves to prosperity?  

My house is paid off, I drive a 17 year old vehicle every day, and I have 0 tax deductions.

I've tried to save my money to gain prosperity.

Am I wrong?

I sure did: university undergraduate and graduate school costs plus my living expenses for all those years were substantial. The difference between my current "prosperity" and what I would have achieved with solely a high school degree is vast and growing. That's reflected across the board in educational levels achieved: High School degree holders have double the unemployment rate of people even with just a four year college degree.... the unemployed are arguably a lot less prosperous than the employed ne pas?

Yes you are wrong. Without investment towards the future you stay stuck with the past, like for instance that "paid off" house: meaning you had  DEBT to purchase that house in the first place. debt you paid interest on, "investing" in your house purchase forward. Why not "save" until you could simply pay cash? Or get the money from your parents like Romney.
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
43 replies since Nov. 08 2012, 1:38 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 212>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Harry Reid on the debt ceiling
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions