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Topic: Expats decide give up US citizenship< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 8:44 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's not bad enough it's being done here, the IRS is targeting foreign-owned businesses.
QUOTE
Under a new rule that is part of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA, all foreign financial institutions must report any accounts that have an American co-signer. Information required includes accounts used for personal and business reasons, and banks will face a hefty fine if they don't comply. American citizens abroad will also now be required to disclose certain types of assets.


And what's with this? Money earned outside the US is subject to US taxes and taxed twice?
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To truly leave the U.S., one must clear several hurdles with the IRS, including paying a huge exit tax and ensuring a current status on the last five years of taxes. The U.S. is one of the only countries in the world that uses a citizenship-based tax law, which means many Americans living overseas pay local taxes in addition to American taxes.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....59.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 8:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You've lost me? What's your point here?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Despite indicators to the contrary, Montana is not a foreign country.  :laugh:

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

His point is that traitors should be given special consideration.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 11:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah but the vast majority giving up citizen are long term residents of other countries mostly married to "foreign" spouses, ... not really rich "ex-pat" couples on the run.  The IRS will be allowed to get into joint/spousal account and (iirc)  the business affairs of the taxpayer and foreign spouse to presumably try to find anything hidden from US taxes (plus white collar crime/narco-/terror-action).  Naturally the spouses and regular employers are like wtf?

The first almost $100K of foreign income is exempt from US taxes btw, but the US "double-taxes" the rest on the assumption that our special forces/navy will try freeing a US citizen if kidnapped.  

I've been researching this while looking at Canadian employment and asked a judge here, who said a US citizen must claim foreign residency if working continuously in another country (unless military or diplomatic agreement).  The whole domicile thingy we (via the Founding Fathers infatuation with all things Roman) got from Rome (where you live, work, and have most of your stuff is where you reside).   So it's likely Constitutional. 

I'm more worried about this whole cheese curd thingy on fries vs. ketchup myself.


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ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 11:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, you object to the IRS doing their job and investigating banks to find tax cheats?  If most of what they find is legit, all of this will blow away, like a fart in the breeze.  Much ado about nothing.  

Seems to me this is a great place to insert "if you have nothing to hide, why be concerned?"  As much as I appreciate search and seizure laws in this country, I find most acts of the IRS well within reason.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 6:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You know this probably wouldn't be much of an issue if more wealthier Americans just accepted the progressive tax rates our country thrived under with Eisenhower and Clinton. To suggest it will kill jobs is a complete denial of the historical record.

I agree with "if you don't have anything to hide..."


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 8:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The rich really are pissed Romney lost. Romney wouldn't reveal his tax records to us the voters. I hope the IRS nails the bastard.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ Nov. 11 2012, 9:26 am)
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Despite indicators to the contrary, Montana is not a foreign country.  :laugh:

Although we're often treated like one.  One of the most recurrent themes in Montana history is the colonial treatment the territory/state has received at the hands of the rest of the country, notably big business and especially bu the extraction industies.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 11 2012, 8:44 am)
QUOTE
Americans living overseas pay local taxes in addition to American taxes.[/b][/quote]

And it they are American citizens, why shouldn't they?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 9:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The points are obvious...
#1, the IRS is going after foreign owned and operated businesses if they have US passport holders as company officers.
#2, ex-pats are being taxed twice.
Would either be acceptable if it happened here?
Would those of you owning a business accept financial investigation by another country because you employed a green card alien from that country? AND deduct taxes not only for within the US but also for that country?
Would any of you agree to paying 2 state income taxes if your legal residence was... say... CA but your company sent you to work in ME for 6 months?

QUOTE
if you have nothing to hide, why be concerned?

That's utter horse s*** .


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ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 11:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you read the tax laws at all, you might learn that only the first $100K earned overseas is tax free income in the US, and only then if you stay out of country for 12 months.  After that, it is taxable for US citizens.

Yes, if you live in one state and work in another, state taxes are owed for all $ earned in each state.  Look up professional sports players and figure out their state income tax obligations.  

Looking over a business record is the only way top find out which employee was paid how much.  Still have no idea why you are bothered by this, other than your general refusal to pay your taxes as defined by the current laws.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 11:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
state taxes are owed for all $ earned in each state.

Right. Under the new law, if it applied to the US, you'd owe taxes on ALL income in BOTH places for the year.

QUOTE
other than your general refusal to pay your taxes as defined by the current laws.

Quote anywhere I've ever said or implied that I refuse to pay taxes.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 11 2012, 11:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

OK, so I took your whine about the IRS as more strict than you carry out the action, but you do proclaim loudly how much you dislike sending your hard earned cash to D.C.  Tax laws apply both ways.  Take advantage of what is there, and pay what is owed.  

Those expats only owe taxes here if they earn more than $100K overseas, so it isn't like they have to pay taxes on all they earn elsewhere.  I still think you are making this a lot bigger than it is.  It isn't like there are hordes of expats making enough $ overseas that this comes into play often.  Most of the ones I know moved to places where their $ stretch further than they would here at home.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 8:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You're right as far as I dislike the way taxes are levied and collected but I've never said I shouldn't or wouldn't pay taxes.
You're also right in that there aren't many ex-pats affected. How many isn't the point.
The amount before taxes is also beside the point. It's that many/most will be double-taxed on the same money.
The gripe is this is another interference by the US in other countries' affairs.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This thread makes me want to go back a week or so in time to the election or something a little more engaging. Though I know quite a few expats (from traveling in SE Asia), it's just a huge YAWN. And so, I'm off to the gym this brisk morning in Texas. Hail Rick! A little later maybe we can discuss Karl Rove or Mitt Romney or Rush or some a them guys (snicker).

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you want to expatriate go for it. Once you settle up with the IRS, you are done with US taxes. Don't let the screen door hit ya.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 12 2012, 9:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Procedure to Relinquish the US Citizenship or Residence

Basically, you need to undertake the following:

Get a second citizenship in another country.
Leave the US.
Appear before the US Consul in that country to renounce your US citizenship.
File the form 8854, Expatriation Information Statement.
Pay the due exit tax.
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17 replies since Nov. 11 2012, 8:44 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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