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Topic: Judge Andrew Napolitano on Patraeus.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 10:04 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Judge Andrew Napolitano weighed in on the scandal surrounding General David Petraeus’ resignation as director of the CIA. According to Napolitano, the emails between Petraeus and his mistress Paula Broadwell should never have been made public because they did not implicate criminal activity or national security.

Napolitano also argued that despite Petraeus’ position, he’s entitled to the same constitutional protection as the rest of us. He asserted that the FBI “can’t go on a fishing expedition” without establishing the probability of a criminal act.

“I think they ran amok with General Petraeus’ life and with his liberties and for that, he’s out of a job and it’s wrong,” Napolitano said.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012....berties


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Kelley emails reportedly contained non-public details about Central Command and SOCOM personnel travel details.  That looked like a security breach so it was followed up: that led to Petraeus' email account and as D/CIA that has security issues written all over it. Had the shirtless wonder FBI agent not run off to his Republican buddies and blabbed odds are none of this would have seen the light of day but once Cantor was in the loop all bets were off.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't recal reading - were the emails sent from a personal email or work/government email? I think that would make a difference...
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For the initial suspected security breach involving United States Special Operations Command personnel travel details the type of email account wouldn't be at issue.

The DoJ dropping the issue indicates from their legal standpoint there was no issue as I read that anyway.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Broadwell and Petraeus used the "draft folder" method of communicating.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes but not Broadwell with her messages to Kelley.

ETA: btw, Napolitano? he Judge Judy's replacement?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Napolitano is a judge concerned about civil liberties, and probably at least slightly more knowledgeable than the average forum poster.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 14 2012, 9:27 am)
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Napolitano is a judge concerned about civil liberties, and probably at least slightly more knowledgeable than the average forum poster.

Former Judge turned television celebrity entertainer (though given timing and the one year duration of his show it looks like Judy was his replacement, and far more successful at it at that) lo these many decades (having bailed from his 8 year stint as a Jersey Judge in '95).

BTW those emails haven't "been made public" so he's simply producing click-bait on a non-issue. His ire would better be directed at the agent who scampered to his Republican House friends and spilled the beans rather than the F.B.I. That agent's actions, based on his reported concern the FBI wasn't pursuing the issue vigorously enough, dropped the issue right into the political realm and that's what triggered Petraeus firing/resignation.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Because you disagree with his politics, you discount his legitimacy as judge, or his knowledge of constitutional law.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 14 2012, 12:29 pm)
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His ire would better be directed at the agent who scampered to his Republican House friends and spilled the beans rather than the F.B.I. That agent's actions, based on his reported concern the FBI wasn't pursuing the issue vigorously enough, dropped the issue right into the political realm and that's what triggered Petraeus firing/resignation.

+1

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 12:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 14 2012, 9:40 am)
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Because you disagree with his politics, you discount his legitimacy as judge, or his knowledge of constitutional law.

No, because he hans't BEEN a judge since 1995 I acknowledge his NOT being a judge.

His television entertainment credentials have little bearing on the issue of whether an agent of the FBI should run to Republican House leadership when he disagrees with where he sees an investigation going.

There was no "constitutional law" involved, Kelley was being harassed and the sender of the harassing and allegedly security breaching emails dragged her lover into it through the medium she used to communicate with her target and her lover, electronic email. I'd think even a FOX entertainer would agree once emails allegedly from the D/CIA surfaced in connection to a USSOM security breach it should be thoroughly explored? It was and NOT "in public". The only place this saw the light of day was the agent running to the  two House Republican leaders, then when Petraeus went "public" with his resignation letter.

Like I said: click-bait.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would also question the ability of most judges I've come across to be considered an authority on anything related to modern technology.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 2:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Nov. 14 2012, 10:27 am)
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Napolitano is a judge concerned about civil liberties, and probably at least slightly more knowledgeable than the average forum poster.

So no one should have posted an opinion to your post???
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 2:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Wailer @ Nov. 14 2012, 11:03 am)
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(Montecresto @ Nov. 14 2012, 10:27 am)
QUOTE
Napolitano is a judge concerned about civil liberties, and probably at least slightly more knowledgeable than the average forum poster.

So no one should have posted an opinion to your post???

Makes things tough as a video of our modestly tugging our forelocks in earnest supplication can't be posted in this forum:


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 2:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Most judges are not very knowledgeable about the law beyond their own courtrooms.  Other than evidentiary and procedural matters, they seldom make decisions without first being educated by the opposing counsel and then their law clerks.  About all most judges remember are their own decisions, and many don't even remember that.  

But Napo is even further removed from the law.  How long has it been since he either practice law or was an acting judge (as opposed to acting as judge on TV)?  Would you take medical advice from a doctor who hadn't practice medicine for almost 2 decades?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 2:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't much care for TV judges in general.

I don't know why this Kelly woman had the influence and connections that she had, but her and her husband are suspicious mostly for having a Doctors income and not being able to afford their lifestyle.

Why did Gen Allen send so much email to Kelly? Did he have a lot of free time on his hands because the war just kind of runs itself?

Petreaus may have used poor judgement, but I don't see anything yet that was worthy of being made public. He did potentially compromise his position, not much differently then the SS agents in South America, but over a longer period of time.

Who actually made it public? So far as I know it wasn't the White House, more likely a disgruntled FBI agent that couldn't keep his shirt on. What's up with that?

As for the Woman that he Was All In, she could have used better judgement at several points in the timeline as we know it now.

Last but not least, the conservative fantasy that somehow Obama is behind this is just silly.

I trust the FBI to get to the bottom of it, but they do have a running feud with the CIA so they may have been a little enthusiastic to see where it went.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 3:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The first I saw about it was when Petraeus distributed his Nov. 9*  resignation letter to CIA employees: from then on it was the usual news media effort with who he was having an affair with coming out and then somewhat later the Kelley aspect that triggered the investigation, with the Allen linkage appearing after his name was suspended from consideration as Allied Supreme Commander, Europe etc.

That impression is supported by the various reports I've seen about various House members, Feinstein, Pelosi and others, pushing hard about why there WAS no notice about this until Friday when he sent out his letter.

* http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....2272022
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 4:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I have to sympathize with the assessment by Napolitano on the privacy issues – just the last week an executive at Lockheed essentially did the same thing, though with an employee of the company, and there was no publicity other than to note the reason for his being dismissed.

I’m loath to start yet another thread on this topic, as the nature of it has caused sensational headlines enough and a proliferation of speculation, but I’d like to borrow this thread to mention that there are some things important to learn from this episode, aside from the “privacy issues” brought up here. Yes, the “intelligence community” has much more stringent rules that govern behavior for a reason, so Petraeus’ stepping down, however tragic a loss of skill and knowledge for the country, was inevitable.

I was reading articles at the NY Times this morning, and a trio of them struck me as containing observations of impact somewhat more serious than the sexual escapades being exploited everywhere. I’m generally somewhat slower on the uptake than most others here, so much of this may be obvious to most of you, but I thought the issues worth mentioning.

Frank Bruni’s column from yesterday’s paper made the point that there is no little chauvinism involved in much of what passes for casual observation/analysis of these somewhat lurid events, and points out that there is a tendency to pass over the human failings of ambitious men (and women) who are under great stress, are clearly self-preening to the point of seeking out adulation from everyone, however much they may or may not deserve it, and who are, in the case of those who are sent to fight our wars for us, extremely isolated for long periods of time, forcing them into what I would call an artificial perception of what constitutes “real life”.
Frank Bruni: "The Siren and the Spook"

I don’t know about most people, but I find that I often forget that these people in high office are mere humans, subject to the same failings to which we all are, and many, many more as well. There isn’t much room for misstep and accident, so the stress is severe indeed. Further, the world doesn’t stop in order that we may, as a nation, deal with the “human failings” of our leaders or the individuals who constitute their support. We elect a person because we are convinced that they can “do the job”, largely ignoring the ambition and drive and consequent “skewing of perception” that may result from the very characteristics that are invariably required for them to attain office, or to be appointed to a critical position of trust.

Thomas Friedman’s column from today makes the point that right now is not a “good time” for this kind of thing – no time would probably be good, but we have a potential conflagration brewing in the Middle East in Syria – again. He makes the point that this is a conflict that, because of the way in which it has arisen, the central geographic and political position of the nation and the nature of the parties in conflict, it may spread in an unpredictable way.
QUOTE
The scandal engulfing two of our top military and intelligence officers could not be coming at a worse time: the Middle East has never been more unstable and closer to multiple, interconnected explosions.

...

For Barack Obama’s first term, it was Iran and Afghanistan, again. And for Obama’s second term, I fear that it could be the full nightmare — all of them at once. The whole Middle East erupts in one giant sound and light show of civil wars, states collapsing and refugee dislocations, as the keystone of the entire region — Syria — gets pulled asunder and the disorder spills across the neighborhood.

And you were worried about the “fiscal cliff.”

Ever since the start of the Syrian uprising/civil war, I’ve cautioned that while Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain and Tunisia implode, Syria would explode if a political resolution was not found quickly. That is exactly what’s happening.

The reason Syria explodes is because its borders are particularly artificial, and all its communities — Sunnis, Shiites, Alawites, Kurds, Druze and Christians — are linked to brethren in nearby countries and are trying to draw them in for help.
Thomas Friedman: "Obama’s Nightmare"

And then there’s the second of two pretty good columns by Maureen Dowd this week. Dowd reminds again that, like it or not, the important relationships in our government between very human individuals guides the way that critical decisions are made. Dowd’s assessments are, perhaps, somewhat too broad and generalized in fact, but the idea here is that “personalities” are virtually the only types who fill the positions available.
QUOTE
The scandal is a good reminder that, although John McCain and Sarah Palin urge total trust and blank checks for the generals, these guys are human beings working under extremely stressful circumstances, and their judgments are not beyond reproach.



Petraeus rolled the younger commander in chief into going ahead with a bound-to-fail surge in Afghanistan, just as, half a century earlier, the C.I.A. had rolled Jack Kennedy into going ahead with the bound-to-fail Bay of Pigs scheme. Both missions defied logic, but the untested presidents put aside their own doubts and instincts, caving to experience.
Maureen Dowd: “Reputation, Reputation, Reputation"

If you find any of this relatively shallow as observation, then simply write it off as my own naivete.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 10:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 14 2012, 12:52 pm)
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(Montecresto @ Nov. 14 2012, 9:40 am)
QUOTE
Because you disagree with his politics, you discount his legitimacy as judge, or his knowledge of constitutional law.

No, because he hans't BEEN a judge since 1995 I acknowledge his NOT being a judge.

His television entertainment credentials have little bearing on the issue of whether an agent of the FBI should run to Republican House leadership when he disagrees with where he sees an investigation going.

There was no "constitutional law" involved, Kelley was being harassed and the sender of the harassing and allegedly security breaching emails dragged her lover into it through the medium she used to communicate with her target and her lover, electronic email. I'd think even a FOX entertainer would agree once emails allegedly from the D/CIA surfaced in connection to a USSOM security breach it should be thoroughly explored? It was and NOT "in public". The only place this saw the light of day was the agent running to the  two House Republican leaders, then when Petraeus went "public" with his resignation letter.

Like I said: click-bait.

Your speaking as though your in the know. But this thing has been labeled vastly bigger than what meets the eye, by many. The dust won't settle on this for a long time to come.

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