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Topic: Would you fight for your state or the remnant US?, In a post secession civil war?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 1:00 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the secessionists were to secede.  Were a second American civil War to develop, who would you take up arms for? Your state or the remnant United States?  There is no neutrality, you must decide to fight or be conscripted by who controls the land under your feet.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 1:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd fight for the legally elected president of the United States and the Constitution of the United States. I took that oath.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 1:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Nov. 14 2012, 10:00 am)
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If the secessionists were to secede.  Were a second American civil War to develop, who would you take up arms for? Your state or the remnant United States?  There is no neutrality, you must decide to fight or be conscripted by who controls the land under your feet.

I'm an American.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 14 2012, 10:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Would you rather fight one horse sized or a hundred duck sized horses?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 12:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The whole notion is so ridiculous that it doesn't even bear mentioning.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 3:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm sure all of this speculation about fighting in case of secession by a few states (or individuals?) is only spurred on by the remake of "Red Dawn"...
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 3:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think it's ironic that the secessionists are ideological cousins of the same people who ran the HUAC and the blacklist.  When in power, they would destroy anyone disloyal to the system. Out of power, they would destroy the system itself if they couldn't control it.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 7:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Nov. 15 2012, 2:08 am)
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I think it's ironic that the secessionists are ideological cousins of the same people who ran the HUAC and the blacklist.  When in power, they would destroy anyone disloyal to the system. Out of power, they would destroy the system itself if they couldn't control it.

+1 for that spot-on insight

McCarthyism was nationalism taken to a paranoid extreme, instigated by power-hungry politicians and supported by followers too blinded by ideological rhetoric to see that their own freedoms were being imperiled under the guise of freedom.

The same yahoos who screamed treason at anyone who disputed GW's case for invading Iraq and flew United States flags from their pickup trucks are now ready to abandon the USA because ... well, basically because they believe all the BS ideological rhetoric spewed by Fox news, AM talk radio, and "conservative" politicians in the service of an emerging plutocracy.

Useful idiots, little different than Russians who unwittingly aided the Bolsheviks in their rise to power.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 7:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Nov. 15 2012, 2:04 am)
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I'm sure all of this speculation about fighting in case of secession by a few states (or individuals?) is only spurred on by the remake of "Red Dawn"...

I agree. The first "Red Dawn" was a great movie. I can't wait to see the remake.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 11:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Nov. 15 2012, 12:04 am)
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I'm sure all of this speculation about fighting in case of secession by a few states (or individuals?) is only spurred on by the remake of "Red Dawn"...

I wish someone would make an equally cheesy liberal version of Red Dawn, with brave and noble liberal insurgents fighting the right wing cabal that took over America through voter suppression and the right-wing activist courts.

If nothing else, it would at least have the virtue of a more realistic premise.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 11:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(big_load @ Nov. 15 2012, 12:08 am)
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I think it's ironic that the secessionists are ideological cousins of the same people who ran the HUAC and the blacklist.  When in power, they would destroy anyone disloyal to the system. Out of power, they would destroy the system itself if they couldn't control it.

Exactly right, and very well put.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 15 2012, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In the 1850's most Americans wouldn't have believed a civil war that would take 600,000 lives was brewing and would become reality in the early 1860's.

So one really never knows. But clearly America is very different today from recent decades. The democrats control the governorship and both houses in 14 states, the republicans in 23 states, so one party rule is growing.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 3:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bateauxdriver @ Nov. 14 2012, 1:03 pm)
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I'd fight for the legally elected president of the United States and the Constitution of the United States. I took that oath.

What if the two are at odds?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 3:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Mudinyeri @ Nov. 20 2012, 2:04 pm)
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(Bateauxdriver @ Nov. 14 2012, 1:03 pm)
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I'd fight for the legally elected president of the United States and the Constitution of the United States. I took that oath.

What if the two are at odds?

The Constitution provides a legal mechanism for removing a president who violates his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. It's called impeachment.

And no, conservative interpretations  of the Constitution to the effect that certain government programs and/or longstanding practices are unconstitutional do not  "constitute" impeachable offenses.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 8:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Let secession happen. Then we have no more red state-blue state issue internally.

Lets call their bluff.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 8:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Nov. 15 2012, 8:16 am)
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(big_load @ Nov. 15 2012, 12:08 am)
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I think it's ironic that the secessionists are ideological cousins of the same people who ran the HUAC and the blacklist.  When in power, they would destroy anyone disloyal to the system. Out of power, they would destroy the system itself if they couldn't control it.

Exactly right, and very well put.

History recalls dictatorships springing from both the ideological right (e.g. fascists) and the ideological left (e.g. communists).

Better that we as citizens educate ourselves, think for ourselves -- and be mindful of the rights and points of view of others.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 20 2012, 9:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Although Lincoln is a president I greatly admire, I think that the south had every right to secede.  They screwed up big-time in attacking Fort Sumter, but I digress.

My ancestors left England and later fought in the revolution (three generations of them).  Change didn't phase them and it doesn't phase me.  I'll side with my free state.  Washington and Jefferson would understand.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 8:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Nov. 20 2012, 7:52 pm)
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 I'll side with my free state.  Washington and Jefferson would understand.

Most of these people can't see the parallels. Exactly as the Tories and loyalists couldn't see the faults and failures of their parent country and King.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 9:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think that some people see this whole hypothetical for what it is; a macho, quasi-patriotic fantasy. Some of you have seen Red Dawn a few too many times.

It would be far more constructive to get involved in the political process, promoting your values and making positive use of the constitution than all of this negative speculation about how violence will be necessary to improve the world. That is a proposition that rarely proves to be true.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Rather than secession I'd say we are moving towards a new political party.  The Republicans continue to try their very hardest to make themselves irrelevant.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 11:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

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ROAR!!!
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(N2theWild @ Nov. 21 2012, 11:06 am)
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I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

Is that what Jesus would say?
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(UlightBandit @ Nov. 21 2012, 11:29 am)
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(N2theWild @ Nov. 21 2012, 11:06 am)
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I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

Is that what Jesus would say?

That's the spirochetes talking. They didn't leave much brain tissue for him to work with.
:p


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 1:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ Nov. 21 2012, 9:02 am)
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(UlightBandit @ Nov. 21 2012, 11:29 am)
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(N2theWild @ Nov. 21 2012, 11:06 am)
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I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

Is that what Jesus would say?

That's the spirochetes talking. They didn't leave much brain tissue for him to work with.
:p

Revenge of the Microbes.

:D
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 2:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hahahahaha... that might be the funniest thing I've read all day.

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(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 21 2012, 7:35 am)
QUOTE

(justwalkin @ Nov. 20 2012, 7:52 pm)
QUOTE
 I'll side with my free state.  Washington and Jefferson would understand.

Most of these people can't see the parallels. Exactly as the Tories and loyalists couldn't see the faults and failures of their parent country and King.

Running parallel = never intersecting.

A Democratic president is not an absolute despot sitting on a throne across a great ocean inflicting a long train of abuses and usurpations, answering repeated petitions for redress with repeated injury.

Every state in this union is a shade of purple, and my bet is the majority of voters at the red end of the spectrum see this secession nonsense for what it is -- stupid, petulant, sore loser, nonsense.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 2:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
Thomas Jefferson.

That being said, I agree that these were the same people who scolded me for my bike helmet sticker during the GW reign that read "I am happy to be an American even if I'm not particularly proud of it."

I am not old enough or wealthy enough to be a Republican (just joking take it easy), but I think some of them threatening to secede is great! I should be able to speak out about the tryanny I felt with the passing of the Patriot Act and other GW and associate laws. They should be able to express their concern about "socialism" and thier other concerns with Obama. We can all learn from this and hopefully this sharing of ideas is what can lead us to build a better future.

I don't feel more connected to my state than I do my country, but if it came to that ( since you did ask us to answer that) I would have to fight for the side I felt was closer to moving in the direction I would like to see our country go in. You can say that this is all a bunch of blow harding and I agree, but their will come a time when revolution will be a real thing. History has proven this thoughout the ages. Unfortunely things will have to get a lot worse before that becomes a reality. People still have too much to lose.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 3:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

My grandfather, U.S. Army did fairly well in Korea as has my brother so far United States Marine Corp in Afganistan. Even in wars they don't agree with mind you. Please think about what you say before you disrespect the men and women in uniform because they don't share the same political views as you!
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(mssmith648 @ Nov. 21 2012, 3:34 pm)
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Please think about what you say before you disrespect the men and women in uniform because they don't share the same political views as you!

You're the one creating a fictitious argument.

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For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (2 Timothy 4:3)
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(mssmith648 @ Nov. 21 2012, 12:34 pm)
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I doubt you limp-wristed liberals would fare to well on the battlefield.

My grandfather, U.S. Army did fairly well in Korea as has my brother so far United States Marine Corp in Afganistan. Even in wars they don't agree with mind you. Please think about what you say before you disrespect the men and women in uniform because they don't share the same political views as you!

What a crock.

Political affiliation is about as irrelevant in combat as gender.


Hugs.
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