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Topic: See what Happens, When you start changing what words mean< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 1:23 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

First Marriage....now husband, wife, bride, and groom have to go away

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddsta....es.html

Once again the minority triumphs :laugh:

I especially liked this part

"Sprigg suggested the heterosexual couples could challenge the new terms by simply crossing out the new language and inserting the old.
“I wonder if the state would accept that,” he asked. “If not, it would suggest this movement is intent on being even more totalitarian.”

So the majority of people could mark up the form.....instead of the minority

Makes perfect sense


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 1:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

“Person A” and “Person B,” just like any other contract, seems reasonable.

FWIW were I to see lines labeled "Husband" and "Wife" on a building contract I'd question the contractor's sanity and then walk away not wanting to deal with the increased zaniness.
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cweston Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 1:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why is it so important that the form use specific words like "bride" and "groom?" If the state is legally recognizing your marriage, WTF cares? Why wouldn't they change the form to  use words that can accommodate everyone who can legally marry in that jurisdiction?

Your complaint seems ridiculous to me.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(cweston @ Nov. 29 2012, 1:34 pm)
QUOTE
Why is it so important that the form use specific words like "bride" and "groom?" If the state is legally recognizing your marriage, WTF cares? Why wouldn't they change the form to  use words that can accommodate everyone who can legally marry in that jurisdiction?

Your complaint seems ridiculous to me.

Of course the complaint is ridiculous.

The guy who authored the article, encourages folks to join him on his Facebook Page for "Culture War News" - yet another imaginary war the repubs are fighting.

and this gem at the end, "Sarah Palin says you need to get Todd’s new book – Dispatches From Bitter America!"

Sarah Palin sponsorship and a book about being a sore loser - yeah that guy's slant on news isn't too apparent...


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not saying two wrong's make a right or anything, but...

I am much more disgusted with the word play back in the Bush W era -- you know, terms like "enemy noncombatants" to skirt both the Geneva Convention (hey, they ain't soldiers just because they too fight and carry weapons) and our own laws (hey, they ain't civilians either)!  Where the heck were you back then?  ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 2:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 29 2012, 12:43 pm)
QUOTE
Not saying two wrong's make a right or anything, but...

I am much more disgusted with the word play back in the Bush W era -- you know, terms like "enemy noncombatants" to skirt both the Geneva Convention (hey, they ain't soldiers just because they too fight and carry weapons) and our own laws (hey, they ain't civilians)!  Where the heck were you back then?  ???

Sure, but the point is simpler than that. If it's legal in Washington for same-sex couples to marry, then they obviously aren't going to use a form with gender-specific words for the parties marrying. That just makes no sense.

I know that the folks complaining don't like the fact that that is the law in Washington, but it's the law nonetheless. Of course they're going to amend their forms to reflect the current law.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 2:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

See what happens when you imagine batsheet kwap over and over again?

Grow up Bill. You lose...again.

Let Freedom Ring...For Everyone!


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 4:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Tim Church, a spokesman for the Wash. state Health Department, told Fox News they will likely be removing those words in favor of more gender neutral terms.

He said the changes are necessary in response to the same-sex marriage law that takes effect Dec. 6.

“We’ve been quickly moving ahead to change our marriage certificate to make sure it fits for everyone who is going to be using it,” he told Fox News.
The words “bride” and “groom” could be replaced with “Spouse A” and “Spouse B” or “Person A” and “Person B,” Church said.

The department has been taking public input but the state’s secretary of health will ultimately decide which terms are used.

“People are just happy we are aware that the form needs updating,” Church said. “One (person) expressed concern that she sees forms that she does not see herself in – and she’s forced to make a choice on a form that is not a perfect choice for her.”

“We want our form to work for everyone who is getting married,” he added.


Wow.  Yeah, that's sooooo upsetting.  I can see how this will blow a giant hole in marriages everywhere.  My own marriage is about become unraveled by this extraordinary event.

Jeezus.  You guys just look for things to whine about, don'tcha.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 5:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

See what happens when you stop discriminating against people? Bigots get butthurt.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 8:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is pretty cool.  City hall will open at midnight on Dec 6 in Seattle which is first day to get same sex marriage license.

Then on Dec 9 is first day you can get married, and city hall will be open and decorated by volunteers for anyone who wishes to hold their ceremony there and be married by the mayor!  Free for anyone, and they are starting at noon, but will open earlier if demand warrants it.

So yes things are getting pretty damn crazy in Seattle.  The language on the forms are REALLY hurting people here.

It is so very nice to see the outpouring of support from all over for this!  Pretty gosh darn cool.

Sadly on December 9 my marriage and all other hetro marriages in WA will be null and void.  Little known fact ONLY gay people can now be legally married in WA!  Take that gay agenda!!!!!!
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 9:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What's the over/under on the first gay divorce?

#PeopleBeingPeople
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 9:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've always felt that there should be a seperation of marriage and state.  The entity that provides sewage and streets should have nothing to do with a lifetime commitment between consenting adults.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 9:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Nov. 29 2012, 6:19 pm)
QUOTE
I've always felt that there should be a seperation of marriage and state.  The entity that provides sewage and streets should have nothing to do with a lifetime commitment between consenting adults.

Well except there are legal contractual aspects to the issue. The Hammurabi Code was all about property regulation and contracts and had a section on marriage.

Yeah, what sort or not of sacred or not ceremony goes along with he contracts establishment is outside of government purview: but the regulation of property arrangements is definitely what government is for, whether between commercial enterprises or individuals.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 9:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Nov. 29 2012, 7:19 pm)
QUOTE
I've always felt that there should be a seperation of marriage and state.  The entity that provides sewage and streets should have nothing to do with a lifetime commitment between consenting adults.

As HSF noted, that'd be a lot easier to do if there weren't about a gadzillion legal rights (and numerous responsibilities) automatically endowed to married couples the moment the marriage is finalized.  And the overwhelming majority of people see those rights as a good thing to keep.  If it weren't for all that, the separation of marriage and state would be easier.

There still is a distinct separation, of course.  The new laws in WA and ME don't keep any church at all from marrying or not marrying (as a sacrament) whomever they like in their congregations.  So yeah, there's that.  Whether the concept of a "civilly recognized marriage" should exist at all is another debate altogether.  But in the meantime, until all the legal rights of marriage are nullified, it still most definitely does exist.  The fact that the civil definition is changing, IMO, is cause for celebration.

A big "hoo-rah" to Geo's post.  :)  When the world of civilized people doesn't actually end in a year as the bible-beaters have long predicted, it'll be nice to see more states able to take up the cause for civil rights as well.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2012, 10:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Nov. 29 2012, 6:19 pm)
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I've always felt that there should be a seperation of marriage and state.  The entity that provides sewage and streets should have nothing to do with a lifetime commitment between consenting adults.

Yeah, right. Sure. You've always felt that way. It's purest coincidence that you happen to be expressing that opinion right now, at a point when legal recognition of marriages you don't approve of is (in some states, at least) a fait accompli.  

Uh-huh.  Right.  

So how much did you say that bridge was?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 30 2012, 11:58 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Like much else that social conservatives hold dear, I fail to see how the verbiage on a government form can be such a concern.  What exactly are we supposed to be seeing as a consequence of this?  (referring to the "See what happens" bit in the thread title)  That people are treated as people?  That a marriage license is viewed as a contract?  If you were here I'd show you my shocked face.

When someone can offer a legal reason, not a religious one, for denying marriage rights to consenting adults, I'll happily listen to the argument.  In the meantime, if you don't want gays to call their committed relationships "marriages" I have little to offer you, other than a Kleenex.  Maybe it's the freaky social conservatives that should call their arrangements something other than a marriage.  They clearly don't take them very seriously if having gays use the word somehow detracts from the validity of their own unions.  

And please quit using words like "traditional" and "biblical" when describing what a marriage is.  Either the words mean something different to you or you're patently unaware of the history of the institution, and most especially marriages within the Bible.


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