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| Post Number: 1
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Raznation 
Why surf when you can make waves!
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Posted on: Nov. 21 2012, 11:35 pm |
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So two women went to the Arlington National Cemetery.
While there, they took a photo which they posted to their Facebook account.
Link to story
Now, there are a lot of people who want their heads on a spike....so to speak.
They say its a travesty and disgusting what they did.
But isnt it the reason why the soldiers fought for?
To preserve their right to take that picture and post it?
Discuss.
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| Post Number: 2
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Ben2World
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Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 12:22 am |
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Clicking over, this is what I got -- hardly worth the fuss. 
Sorry, page can't be found
404 Error
The page you were looking for has gone missing. It has either been retired from our servers, or you were given a bum URL.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 3
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star
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Joined: Jun. 2008
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 2:42 am |
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Curiosity killing the cat and all, I googled "two women", before I could type in "Arlington Park" I was offered the two women one cup video... which I declined to click upon. Finally I made my way to this:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012....outrage
The image was taken as their response to the sign not the location, for what they thought was basically their own private use, and they said they were sorry. What else does anyone want from them? they can't take it back, it's gone around the world by now. Another reminder to watch what you do online.
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If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
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| Post Number: 4
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JimInMD
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 10:33 am |
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They have a right to be a-holes in public, yes. Unless someone crosses the line to actually threatening them, then the public has the right to heap as much scorn, venom and rebuke upon them as it likes.
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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| Post Number: 7
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ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 10:38 am |
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I think it has been blown out of proportion. 2 adults doing no harm to anyone, but managed to offend many when they posted it to their page. Now, their employer is hoping it all blows over quickly, so they can go back to what they do. In the meantime, the women are on unpaid leave. I feel like the leave is too drastic, causing financial harm for a personal decision, no matter how poor a choice.
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Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
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| Post Number: 8
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| Post Number: 9
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Ben2World
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 2:20 pm |
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Source: Fox News (from Raz's link above)
I feel ambivalent about the photo:
1. To me, the woman behaved like a 13 year old -- immature, and not funny at all.
2. Should society, however, persecute folks who act immature for their age? No.
Freedom and responsibility should go hand in hand. The last thing we want is more laws / sanctions on personal behavior. The best way to avoid that is to cherish our freedom by being mindful / considerate of others.
But I also think the photo is blown way out of proportion. Was the woman acting up during a military funeral -- or within sight / earshot of military families? Or was she just trying to be funny -- having her photo taken without really bothering anyone nearby? My guess is the latter.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 10
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Ecocentric
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 7:16 pm |
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(Ben2World @ Nov. 22 2012, 2:20 pm)
QUOTE Source: Fox News (from Raz's link above) I feel ambivalent about the photo: 1. To me, the woman behaved like a 13 year old -- immature, and not funny at all. 2. Should society, however, persecute folks who act immature for their age? No. Freedom and responsibility should go hand in hand. The last thing we want is more laws / sanctions on personal behavior. The best way to avoid that is to cherish our freedom by being mindful / considerate of others. But I also think the photo is blown way out of proportion. Was the woman acting up during a military funeral -- or within sight / earshot of military families? Or was she just trying to be funny -- having her photo taken without really bothering anyone nearby? My guess is the latter.
+1, except the photo itself, without any special context is kind of funny. If it were a cartoon, no one would give it a second thought.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 11
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isawtman
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 8:27 pm |
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I think this is just a little joke that totally got out of control.
After all, those people buried in that cemetery fought for this
lady's right of freedom of expression.
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| Post Number: 12
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star
Group: Members
Posts: 2773
Joined: Jun. 2008
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 9:12 pm |
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It's not some message they sought to send out to the far ends of the earth, and who doesn't take pictures of themselves goofing off? I know of many who post far worse, and it goes unnoticed.
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If I wanted to live in a dictatorship I would have picked a place with shorter winters.
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| Post Number: 13
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Three
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Joined: Dec. 2011
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 9:53 pm |
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I think this highlights how our culture has changed.
30 years ago a still spry WWII vet would have got in her face and probably told her in very memorable terms how inappropriate her behavior was and what a poor job of child rearing her parents did. The vet's spry wife might have threatened her with fisticuffs. The young woman would have seen the error of her ways and behaved or left.
No one would have tried to get the comedienne fired etc.
Today no one has the moral courage to confront her at the point of misbehavior. Instead we try to get her fired or litigate.
Just another sympton of our transition to wuss nation.
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| Post Number: 14
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gunslinger
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Posted on: Nov. 22 2012, 9:53 pm |
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Seems her employer didn't like it much....she got fired.
http://www.wtop.com/41....-outcry
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 15
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BillBab
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Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 8:23 am |
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In tody's world it is hard enough to do something REALLY stupid and insensitive without it finding its way to the internet
Putting it their yourself takes an extra special type of idiocy
They have the right to say anything they want
Other people have the right to be offended
Their employer has the right to not employ morons
ask yourself this.....when they took their picture next to the no smoking sign would it have been funny if it was in the emphysema ward of a local hospital?
or just tasteless and rude
I am certain that if these women owned a restaruant chain you would all be shouting boycott 
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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| Post Number: 16
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| Post Number: 17
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Pathfinder1
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Posted on: Nov. 23 2012, 10:53 am |
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Hi...
Freedom of 'speech'...yes.
Disgustingly crude and rude...yes.
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| Post Number: 18
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Three
Group: Members
Posts: 753
Joined: Dec. 2011
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Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 10:24 pm |
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(Ecocentric @ Nov. 23 2012, 9:45 am)
QUOTE
(Three @ Nov. 22 2012, 9:53 pm)
QUOTE I think this highlights how our culture has changed.
30 years ago a still spry WWII vet would have got in her face and probably told her in very memorable terms how inappropriate her behavior was and what a poor job of child rearing her parents did. The vet's spry wife might have threatened her with fisticuffs. The young woman would have seen the error of her ways and behaved or left.
No one would have tried to get the comedienne fired etc.
Today no one has the moral courage to confront her at the point of misbehavior. Instead we try to get her fired or litigate.
Just another sympton of our transition to wuss nation. So two wrongs make a right? How very Christian of you. [sarcasm]
And what would be the second wrong?
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| Post Number: 19
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atvtuner
........
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 12:00 am |
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The Razz does rule.
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"A land ethic, then, reflects the existence of an ecological conscience, and this in turn reflects a conviction of individual responsibility for the health of the land."
--Aldo Leopold
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| Post Number: 20
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davela
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 2:20 am |
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The real question here is why do people post personal crap on the worldwideweb if they dont want the world to know about it?
For that matter when are idiots going to stop using facebook?Never,thats why they call them idiots.
I go to a local cafe and there will be a table of 3 or 4 people and they dont talk to each other,they are busy texting  !!!!Same thing at the bar! WTF?
I wouldnt fire that chick for the salute she gave i would fire her for her inability to discern a firestorm,having any discretion or self-edit feature.
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Protect Greater Canyonlands!
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
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| Post Number: 21
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Ecocentric
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 8:50 am |
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Three, is threatening someone with fistiscuffs on your list of good deeds?
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 22
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 9:43 am |
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I'd say they have ever right to take that picture and post it.
And I'd also say their employer has every right to fire their a$$es for doing it.
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| Post Number: 23
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Marmotstew
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 9:55 am |
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Well obviously there were like way more dislikes on the Facebook for this so that's why she was canned.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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| Post Number: 24
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Hungry Jack
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 11:00 am |
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Meh.
There is a time and a place for everything, even lame attempts at humor for Facebook fodder.
She missed on both counts.
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| Post Number: 25
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tomas
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 11:27 am |
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My understanding is that they were at Arlington Cemetary on a business sponsored visit. In other words they did that on the company dime.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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| Post Number: 26
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High_Sierra_Fan
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 12:49 pm |
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Counseling for sure, firing is way too much.
As she wrote, a stupid, very stupid, mistake.
Also what part of the sign actually saying "Arlington National Cemetery", did she and the other fool not understand? Just the admonition portion and there'd be far less of an issue or none at all.
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| Post Number: 27
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| Post Number: 28
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 2:51 pm |
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(Hungry Jack @ Nov. 26 2012, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 26 2012, 9:43 am)
QUOTE I'd say they have ever right to take that picture and post it.
And I'd also say their employer has every right to fire their a$$es for doing it. Yup. Employment is "at will", and thus an employer who gets cranked over an episode like this has a right to terminate the employee. It seems extreme, but if the individual's stupid actions somehow become associated with her employer (like posting a picture on FB and telling all her BFFs "look what I did on my recent business trip for XYZ Mortuary Monument Co"), then she may very well be terminated for cause.
"for cause".
The cause being?
That's in direct opposition to your initial "at will", so which is it? "at will" or do they need to show a "cause"? Employment law could easily weight in on this and that would be Massachusetts employment law which will define their rights regarding their termination in regulation of their employer.
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| Post Number: 29
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Hungry Jack
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 3:42 pm |
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Nov. 26 2012, 2:51 pm)
QUOTE
(Hungry Jack @ Nov. 26 2012, 11:42 am)
QUOTE
(Lamebeaver @ Nov. 26 2012, 9:43 am)
QUOTE I'd say they have ever right to take that picture and post it.
And I'd also say their employer has every right to fire their a$$es for doing it. Yup. Employment is "at will", and thus an employer who gets cranked over an episode like this has a right to terminate the employee. It seems extreme, but if the individual's stupid actions somehow become associated with her employer (like posting a picture on FB and telling all her BFFs "look what I did on my recent business trip for XYZ Mortuary Monument Co"), then she may very well be terminated for cause. "for cause". The cause being? That's in direct opposition to your initial "at will", so which is it? "at will" or do they need to show a "cause"? Employment law could easily weight in on this and that would be Massachusetts employment law which will define their rights regarding their termination in regulation of their employer.
"At will" and "for cause" are not opposing concepts. "At will" means the employment contract can be broken without liability by either side provided the action does not violate any express contract governing the relationship and that the employee does not bargain collectively (belong to a union. I assume the employee is not unionized.
Terminated "For cause" means the employee did something against the interests of the company, and can be dismissed without recourse provided the company follows its own procedures for termination.
These concepts obviously introduce gray areas into the employment relationship. Many employers define "at will" in their employment handbooks and require an employee to sign it as part of their agreement.
Firing "for cause" requires documentation to support the decision. Acts like harassment, violence, theft, sabotage, etc. warrant firing on the spot, but firing for poor performance requires extensive documentation to justify the decision.
In this case, it would appear the "cause" would be acting "against the employer's interests", though I would doubt embarrassing herself and her employer on FB would be explicitly defined as such in the employment handbook.
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| Post Number: 30
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EastieTrekker
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Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 4:17 pm |
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I personally think getting fired was a bit harsh, though I agree that their employer had the right to do so, if they felt it necessary.
However, I think that many folks honestly do not realize the "public" nature of their Facebook page. It's often treated as a personal space, that in theory, is only being "shared" with close friends and family (if indeed the privacy settings, are set correctly). Obviously most anything posted anywhere on the internet can be found with just a few clicks on Google, but even I wonder how a picture that is generally just shared among family and friends, ever makes its way to the national news. Perhaps, an old acquaintance who took offense began to spread the photo? Who knows?
Anyway, anybody else feel like this is a good example of why good old fashioned film cameras still have a place in our universe? 
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I request all the possible consumer protection organizations, and fight with their injustice.
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
