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Topic: Some Republicans move away from no-tax pledge< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 11:52 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Some Republicans move away from no-tax pledge
By Tom Cohen, CNN
updated 9:51 PM EST, Fri November 23, 2012
Norquist: Pledge not to me, to the people

Washington (CNN) -- Nothing riles up the tea party chattering class like a broken pledge against raising taxes.

Just ask Sen. Saxby Chambliss, a veteran Georgia Republican who this week turned his back on the Taxpayer Protection Pledge he signed years ago as a rite of passage in right-wing politics.

Immediately labeled "worthless" and "a liar" on the website Tea Party Nation, Chambliss symbolizes the political conundrum facing GOP leaders after President Barack Obama's re-election.

After years of opposing higher taxes on anyone, Republicans now are under pressure to work out a comprehensive agreement to reduce the nation's chronic federal deficits and debt.

That means a compromise with Obama and Democrats, who insist on more tax revenue being part of a package that includes spending cuts and entitlement reforms.


Congress returns to Washington next week after the Thanksgiving break with just over a month to work out the blueprint for a deal that would avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, a combination of steep across-the-board spending cuts and tax increases set to occur at the end of the year.

Boehner: Obamacare on table for 'fiscal cliff' talks

Facing imminent unpopular scenarios such as higher taxes for everyone and further cuts in military spending, the negotiations taking place behind closed doors in Washington have new impetus to produce results.

Obama's victory this month with a slightly stronger Democratic majority in the Senate and a slightly weaker Republican majority in the House signaled general public acceptance of the president's main campaign theme: raising more tax revenue from the rich as part of a deficit-reduction package.

In particular, Obama and Democrats insist that wealthy Americans, so far identified as those with income higher than $200,000 for individuals or $250,000 for families, should pay more taxes than they do now so that rates for everyone else stay the same.

However, the new Congress to be seated in January includes 39 senators, including Chambliss, and 219 House members who have signed the anti-tax pledge pushed by Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform, according to the group's website.

The House total constitutes a narrow majority in the 435-seat chamber, though some members have denounced their allegiance to the pledge much like Chambliss did Wednesday in an interview with CNN affiliate WMAZ, a Georgia television station.

"I care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge," said Chambliss, who faces re-election for a third Senate term in 2014.

Referring to Norquist, who has vowed to oppose candidates who break the pledge, Chambliss said that "if we do it his way, then we'll continue in debt, and I just have a disagreement with him about that."

In response to Chambliss, Norquist told CNN that the senator "wrote a commitment to the voters of Georgia."

"He got elected and re-elected making that commitment," said Norquist. "He's never promised me anything."

Norquist said he believes Chambliss was "caught" on a TV station and that "he said some things perhaps that didn't make sense."

If the senator wants to "change his mind and become a tax increaser," Norquist said, "he needs to have that conversation with the people of Georgia."

Fiscal cliff helps mend Obama-CEO relations

Chambliss acknowledged that Norquist and Americans for Tax Reform will likely work against his re-election because of the issue.

"But I don't worry about that because I care too much about my country," Chambliss said, adding that he was "willing to do the right thing and let the political consequences take care of themselves."

Possible consequences were evident on Friday.

"To call Chambliss an idiot is to insult people of lower intelligence," blogger Judson Phillips of Tea Party Nation wrote. "Chambliss is a poster child for every thing that is wrong with the political class in Washington."

Later in his post, Phillips sharpened his point: "If you give your word and you break your word, then you are a liar."

Phillips also called Chambliss the worst RINO -- Republican In Name Only -- in Washington, citing an acronym that conservatives use for those they consider to be sell-out politicians.

"If you are a worthless Republican politician and you want some good press from the liberal media," Phillips wrote, "all you have to do now days is say you are considering abandoning your pledge not to raise taxes."

However, other conservative voices, including veteran Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, have questioned whether the Norquist pledge remains politically relevant in the face of the mounting federal debt and Obama's re-election.

William Kristol, the editor of the Weekly Standard, said after the November 6 vote that Republicans should consider going along with the president's call for making the wealthy pay higher taxes, telling "Fox News Sunday" that "it wouldn't kill the country."

On the same program, GOP Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee said "the yin and the yang of this is that we know there has to be revenues."

"I haven't met a wealthy Republican or Democrat in Tennessee that's not willing to contribute more as long as they know we solve the problem," Corker noted, adding that reforming entitlement programs such as Medicare, the government-run health care system for senior citizens, was another key part of the package.

Norquist and other conservatives argue that shrinking the government is the only way to properly address the deficit issue. Their mantra is that America spends too much on government, not that it collects too little in taxes.

The Taxpayer Protection Pledge says the signer will "oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses" and will "oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates."

Deficit reduction? Not without entitlement reform

That commitment puts any adherents in conflict with the direction of the deficit negotiations under way between the White House and Congress.

At the Center for the National Interest on Monday, Norquist predicted that Republicans would prevent any deficit deal from containing a tax increase.

Long a defining difference between Democrats and Republicans, the tax issue has stymied efforts to work out a deficit deal for the past two years.

Obama and House Speaker John Boehner came close to agreement last year before conservative rejection of any increased revenue and liberal resistance to entitlement reform scuttled the effort.

Boehner, the Ohio Republican who has emerged as party leader in the deficit talks, agrees to the concept of increased revenue, though he and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky both remain opposed to actually raising tax rates.

Instead, they propose broad tax reform that will lower rates while eliminating unspecified loopholes and exemptions to spur economic growth that they say will result in more overall government revenue.

Chambliss, whose voting record got a perfect rating in 2010 from the American Conservative Union, has played a supporting role in the deficit debate.

He joined colleagues from both parties in the so-called Gang of Six senators trying to work out a comprehensive deal on the sidelines of the main talks between the White House and Congress.

Last year, Norquist's group called at one point for Chambliss and the other two Republicans to drop out of the Gang of Six talks that were considering increased tax revenue as part of the deal.

Norquist later sent a letter to Chambliss and GOP colleagues Coburn and Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming to clarify that their stance met the conditions of the pledge because they wanted any increase in revenue to come from economic growth spurred by lower tax rates.

"This is very encouraging news from you," Norquist wrote then. "It means that you will fulfill the Taxpayer Protection Pledge you made to your constituents and the American people to oppose and vote against legislated net income tax increases."
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 12:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the tax hike goes through on families over $250k and individuals over $200k, how much extra revenue will it bring to the table?

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 2:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Jim

looks like almost 1.6 trillion although it will not fall entirely on "families over $250k and
individuals over $200k"(but mostly it appears)


Big differences remain between the two parties on how best to address the fiscal cliff. Obama
has said he wants $1.6 trillion in new revenue as part of any deal, with a big chunk of that
coming from raising taxes on couples making more than $250,000 a year.


http://www.postbulletin.com/news/stories/display.php?id=1515289


Obama plans to open talks using his most recent budget proposal, which sought to raise taxes
on corporations and the wealthy by $1.6 trillion over the next decade, White House press
secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday. That’s double the sum that House Speaker John A. Boehner
(R-Ohio) offered Obama during secret debt negotiations in 2011.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/busines....ry.html

Now its important to note that taxes and revenue during the Obama years are already very
very low

"Federal Revenue at Lowest Share of G.D.P. Since 1950"

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009....ce-1950

"Analysis finds U.S. tax burden lowest since 1958"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20060440-503544.html


Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the
lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the
historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in
December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.
 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money....s_N.htm


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 2:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The more Republicans that can ignore Grover Norquist and his stupid pledge the better but
at this point I'm still not convinced Republicans haven't loosened Norquists's grip on them.
When a deal that actually raises taxes passes then I will be a believer.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 3:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Nov. 24 2012, 2:28 pm)
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The more Republicans that can ignore Grover Norquist and his stupid pledge the better but
at this point I'm still not convinced Republicans haven't loosened Norquists's grip on them.
When a deal that actually raises taxes passes then I will be a believer.

Agreed. These may be cracks in the wall, but it's a big friggin wall. And what happens when a Repub gets beat out by one of Grover's tea bagger replacements?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 3:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why do the GOP paint themselves in a corner like this? Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Nov. 24 2012, 12:56 pm)
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Why do the GOP paint themselves in a corner like this? Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

Esp. when they have been burned once before -- and badly too.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 5:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Am I missing something?  If the republican congress refuses to compromise with the President, then come January the largest tax increase ever in the history of the US will go into effect - a tax increase passed by a republican controlled house.

Come the mid-term elections, everyone running against a republican representative that voted for that tax increase can hang it on them.  

Perhaps this is Obama's plan to spend the next two years making sure none of them get re-elected.  

Sound familiar?

Mitch McConnell:  Our top priority over the next two years is to prevent the re-election of Obama
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 24 2012, 9:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You are missing nothing.  These criminals have painted themselves into a corner, again, and like the rats they are they will abandon even Grover Numbskull, the Chief Rodent.  No honor among thieves.  Interesting image, rat as thief.  Which came first, the rat or the cheese?  Of course there are always finer cheeses and rats have a good sense of smell so the net effect of "turning away from" the likes of Numbskull will likely have no lasting positive effect.

As for Grover himself, well, in my view certainly Grover should be hanged, but we do live in a civilized society and the practical is largely unpopular though the idea retains some merit.

But yeah, I get it, what should be done, what we all should do.  Obey the law, even though the law is largely a mechanism by which the powerful are protected from the rest of us.  Got it.  We shall remain obedient while drones "flown" by mercs in Florida blow goat-ropers into a muddy pink mist in Pakistan.  I grok, fully.  Just sit there, watch the show on your tablet, wait and see, improve your elegantly delivered, intellectually impoverished whine and bitch through whatever "social network" you might select, "pray for peace" or otherwise mitigate your shame.  

Maybe seek some cheese your damn self.

American Dream my ass.

Whatever.  I think it obvious that too many in our government don't accept the responsibility of their office.  I think they see the power of office as an ante into the Finer Cheese Game.  They gamble, they do not add value, they extract reward.  Madmen in adequate supply, insolent and depraved elitists, varsity players all, desperate lost men, too weak to handle the ring without suffering its corruption.  That's exactly what we have here.

Washington and the boys knew how to fix that.  Perhaps it is time to study the lessons of our own history.

Yep.  Opportunity knocks.  We could start small, say, by putting as many of these sonsofbitches in prison as are eligible and that's most of 'em and it don't matter who brung 'em.

Not to put too fine a point on it, of course.

HYOH

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 8:28 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Nov. 24 2012, 1:56 pm)
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

That comment covers both sides of the Gang of 2.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 10:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 25 2012, 7:28 am)
QUOTE

(Land Rover @ Nov. 24 2012, 1:56 pm)
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

That comment covers both sides of the Gang of 2.

OK, I'll bite: which moron  are you referring to?


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 10:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Nov. 25 2012, 8:33 am)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 25 2012, 7:28 am)
QUOTE

(Land Rover @ Nov. 24 2012, 1:56 pm)
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

That comment covers both sides of the Gang of 2.

OK, I'll bite: which moron  are you referring to?

The term "moron" covers pretty much every politician but Landrover must be referring to the POTUS since he's the only one in a position to "dictate" to all citizens of the US. The other 532 only have their own districts/states.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 10:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

President = dictator; got it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 10:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Nov. 25 2012, 7:07 pm)
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President = dictator; got it.

Shush.

Pining for the collar and leash.

#Don'tJudge"Conservative"Desires
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 25 2012, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wasn't the one to post
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+


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(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 25 2012, 10:24 pm)
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I wasn't the one to post
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

Nevertheless, you either failed to grasp or deliberately ignored the meaning of that post.

Grover Norquist has gotten GOP members of the House to sign his no-tax-increase pledge, effectively preventing legislation necessary in any practical effort to reduce budget deficits that affect 300+ m.

As usual, you paint all D's & R's with the same broad brush regardless of the specifics and whether or not there is any equivalency between the two on the issue at hand.

You paint yourself into a corner when you post a sweeping generalization unrelated to the facts, and thus are not to be taken seriously.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ah tax increases to grow government even bigger.
Like giving drugs to a drug addict in hopes that he gets better.
Genius!


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(N2theWild @ Nov. 26 2012, 8:08 am)
QUOTE
Ah tax increases to grow government even bigger.
Like giving drugs to a drug addict in hopes that he gets better.
Genius!

What's not "genius" is being unaware the sequestration legislation (the context of the Republican reconsiderations on Groverism) is about deficit reduction, not "growing" government.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 26 2012, 2:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Norquist = moron.

It's not difficult given the subject of the thread. But if you think you are being clever by saying it's your President, then well good for you.

Who the hell is he to have this kind of influence over the entire US. Did we elect him President and dictator on all that is tax?

I just struggle to see why the entire GOP would bend over for Norquist like this? Is it just stupidity that they allowed themselves to be boxed into a corner. Do you see Dems being boxed into a corner like this?  

Ok, you don't think that taxes should never go up despite being at historically low levels, but why make it into some sort of an oath. Why did they pander to him? I guess because it plays well with this who listen to talk radio.

It lies at the root of the problem with conservatives everywhere. They seem to think that rather than adapting to circumstances, all they need to is stick to their core values, then everything is ok. When presenting with a failure or a challenge, it wasn't that their core value was wrong, it was that they weren't true enough to their conservative values.

So low or the absolute minimal taxes being a core value when they are presented with a real challenge like the one America faces now, they are unable to respond with anything but vitriol and stomping their feet. Unfortunately they are in a position to take down America with them.

It also pays no heed to the fact that they aren't and are never likely to be in a complete monopoly of power, so it leaves no room for compromise.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 7:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sad to see anyone else start pandering to the real morons....the ones with no math skills

Take all the money from the millionaires and you cannot cover our current spending

Obama got re-elected by the people that confuse tax rates with tax revenue

His opponent actually had a plan that would result in the "rich" paying more in taxes......but it took away too much POWER from the govt.

Who controls the deductions has the power....but the masses are still a$$es

and nobody wants to lose their pet deduction......especially those that receive the biggest deduction.....no federal income tax at all


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 7:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 27 2012, 7:17 am)
QUOTE
Sad to see anyone else start pandering to the real morons....the ones with no math skills

Take all the money from the millionaires and you cannot cover our current spending

Obama got re-elected by the people that confuse tax rates with tax revenue

His opponent actually had a plan that would result in the "rich" paying more in taxes......but it took away too much POWER from the govt.

Who controls the deductions has the power....but the masses are still a$$es

and nobody wants to lose their pet deduction......especially those that receive the biggest deduction.....no federal income tax at all

Pure ignorance.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 8:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Gee.. there has been a misunderstanding. I thought
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

must include Obama dictating his healthplan to 300M+. Inherently exactly the same thing... using political influence and the power of his office to accomplish a goal that half the population doesn't want.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 9:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Nov. 27 2012, 4:17 am)
QUOTE
Sad to see anyone else start pandering to the real morons....the ones with no math skills

[snip]

His opponent actually had a plan that would result in the "rich" paying more in taxes......but it took away too much POWER from the govt.

Who controls the deductions has the power....but the masses are still a$$es

and nobody wants to lose their pet deduction......especially those that receive the biggest deduction.....no federal income tax at all

Self-awareness FAIL.

But hey, you think you have "math skills"?  Fine: use your supposedly superior "math skills" to show us how it could have added up.

Or you could always admit that you don't have a clue. That works too.


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(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 27 2012, 5:36 am)
QUOTE
Gee.. there has been a misunderstanding. I thought
QUOTE
Why is a single moron dictating the policy covering 300 m+

must include Obama dictating his healthplan to 300M+. Inherently exactly the same thing... using political influence and the power of his office to accomplish a goal that half the population doesn't want.

I'm confused; didn't the House and the Senate approve it?  I'm pretty sure I recall that happening. But of course if you know better, I'll take your word for it that somehow the President magically "dictated" the PPACA.

(By the way, that bit about half the population not wanting it? Not quite correct: half the population doesn't want something called "Obamacare" that they don't really know that much about.  When asked about specific policies enacted in the PPACA, support is overwhelming.)


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 10:53 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Frankly, I see this as a good sign for the Republican Party. The sooner its legislating members start thinking for themselves as intelligent conservatives (the ones who are capable, anyway), and stop cowtowing like sheep to every whim the party elites roll out--a platform which has grown increasingly extremist in the past decade or two--the sooner we'll return to a government working more like it's supposed to, with members from both sides willing (and needing) to negotiate 1:1 in order to legislate.

The GOP elites aren't eager to give up the dictatorial power they've enjoyed over their party--they'll fight to keep it tooth and nail, as you're already seeing, throwing their own members under the bus who might disagree on anything--but their grip is loosening.  There are a lot of genuine conservatives in the public (I'm not talking about the Tea-hats like the trolls you see on this board... I mean those who still stick to the root word of "conservative" as a general ideology) who are starting to breathe a sigh of relief, I think.

Internal dissent makes a party, like a country, stronger. At least when handled peacefully.  The Republican royalty forgot that some time ago, and many learned their lesson this past election.  More and more GOP members now would rather dissent with their party leaders for the good of their constituents than stay chained to a sinking ship.

Good, I say.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 11:25 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Nov. 27 2012, 9:37 am)
QUOTE
(By the way, that bit about half the population not wanting it? Not quite correct: half the population doesn't want something called "Obamacare" that they don't really know that much about.  When asked about specific policies enacted in the PPACA, support is overwhelming.)

Well Duh. Of course the policies sound good.

It's the paying for those policies that's going to screw a lot of people over.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 11:30 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 27 2012, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
a sinking ship.

Good, I say.

Funny you use that term because that is exactly how your side has achieved the power grab.

The promise of making illegals citizens, increased handouts and entitlements, increased taxation & burden on the middle class, more spending, the list goes on and on. Consequences be damned.

You've proven you are willing to sink the ship just to get more votes, and thus power. No wonder you win elections.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 11:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(N2theWild @ Nov. 27 2012, 8:25 am)
QUOTE

(TehipiteTom @ Nov. 27 2012, 9:37 am)
QUOTE
(By the way, that bit about half the population not wanting it? Not quite correct: half the population doesn't want something called "Obamacare" that they don't really know that much about.  When asked about specific policies enacted in the PPACA, support is overwhelming.)

Well Duh. Of course the policies sound good.

It's the paying for those policies that's going to screw a lot of people over.

Sadly, no.  But thanks for playing.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 11:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(N2theWild @ Nov. 27 2012, 9:30 am)
QUOTE

(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 27 2012, 10:53 am)
QUOTE
a sinking ship.

Good, I say.

Funny you use that term because that is exactly how your side has achieved the power grab.

The promise of making illegals citizens, increased handouts and entitlements, increased taxation & burden on the middle class, more spending, the list goes on and on. Consequences be damned.

You've proven you are willing to sink the ship just to get more votes, and thus power. No wonder you win elections.

I'm not a registered Democrat, numbnuts.  I don't identify with the "my side your side" worldview you so desperately cling to.  Sorry if that makes it harder for you to compartmentalize everything into cartoonish caricatures, but maybe you'll grow a bit from it. Who knows.

In the meantime, keep tossing peanuts if it makes ya happy.  Your trolling doesn't score the points it used to.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 27 2012, 11:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(GoBlueHiker @ Nov. 27 2012, 7:53 am)
QUOTE
Frankly, I see this as a good sign for the Republican Party. The sooner its legislating members start thinking for themselves as intelligent conservatives (the ones who are capable, anyway), and stop cowtowing like sheep to every whim the party elites roll out--a platform which has grown increasingly extremist in the past decade or two--the sooner we'll return to a government working more like it's supposed to, with members from both sides willing (and needing) to negotiate 1:1 in order to legislate.

The GOP elites aren't eager to give up the dictatorial power they've enjoyed over their party--they'll fight to keep it tooth and nail, as you're already seeing, throwing their own members under the bus who might disagree on anything--but their grip is loosening.  There are a lot of genuine conservatives in the public (I'm not talking about the Tea-hats like the trolls you see on this board... I mean those who still stick to the root word of "conservative" as a general ideology) who are starting to breathe a sigh of relief, I think.

Internal dissent makes a party, like a country, stronger. At least when handled peacefully.  The Republican royalty forgot that some time ago, and many learned their lesson this past election.  More and more GOP members now would rather dissent with their party leaders for the good of their constituents than stay chained to a sinking ship.

Good, I say.

I agree that it's a good sign for the GOP...if it's genuine.

Huge "if" there.

So far, all this renunciation of the Norquist pledge looks like kabuki to me.  I get the impression they're trying to position themselves as "reasonable" without actually giving up anything.  What I've seen is a number of Republicans admitting that we need to raise revenues--but talking about doing it through eliminating deductions (the Mitt way).

Maybe the fever has begun to break...but they've been diseased for a very long time, and I don't expect to the get well (or even understand how diseased they are) very soon.

ETA: Ed Kilgore sums it up nicely:
QUOTE
The way the whole “fiscal cliff” thing...is being discussed in the MSM is a depressing vindication of the huge strategic advantages of partisan extremism. If you are crazy enough for a while, then agreeing to be slightly less crazy looks statesmanlike....

[T]he “compromise” position of bold, brave GOP “moderates” on the overall shape of a “fiscal solution” is, as Greg Sargent has pointed out, almost identical to that of the Republican presidential candidate who just lost the election.


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