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Topic: Music too loud? You deserve to die. "Responsible", gun owner open fires on unarmed teens.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 5:42 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? It seems that carrying is just another reason to react with violence.

Florida man pleads not guilty to shooting teen to death over loud music

Jacksonville Sheriff's Office
Michael Dunn is accused of the shooting death of Jordan Davis.
By Elizabeth Chuck, NBC News


A Florida gun collector has pleaded not guilty to a murder charge alleging that he opened fire on a car full of unarmed teenagers, killing one, in an altercation that police say stemmed from loud music.

Dunn and his girlfriend drove off and spent the night at their hotel, according to Schoonover, but witnesses took down his license plate number. Police arrested him Saturday morning at his home in Satellite Beach, Fla., on one charge of murder and three charges of attempted murder.


Source.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The lawyer's statements seem absurd, at least so far.

QUOTE
"His side of the story is he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action," Schoonover said.

On Monday, Dunn — a gun collector who shot at local gun ranges, according to authorities — pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court, with his attorney describing his actions as self-defense.

"Once all the facts come out, that what really happened is known, it will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted responsibly and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted under these same circumstances," said his attorney, Robin Lemonidis, reported FirstCoastNews.com, the website for NBC station WTLV in Jacksonville.

If that was the case, why would he drive away, spend the night at a hotel, and when you hear the news the next morning, decide to flee, never turning himself in and instead needing to be tracked down by the cops?  That doesn't add up.

But then again, all I have is a news blip.  He'll see his day in court, and see what happens from there.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 6:12 pm)
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Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

Wow. Nitpick much. People bold for emphasis. If you don't like it, ignore it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jcb @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:16 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 6:12 pm)
QUOTE
Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

Wow. Nitpick much. People bold for emphasis. If you don't like it, ignore it.

Wow.  Don't like somebody else's criticism?  But feel like you need to add yours in?

If you don't like it, ignore it.   :O


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
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Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post.

I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE
Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post.

I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight.

Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not!  It's that simple.  :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:26 pm)
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE
Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post.

I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight.

Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not!  It's that simple.  :;):

1. What is the connection between how I post and owning guns?

2. My complaint was that we never hear about how gun owners saving lives. All we hear is how they use thier guns to kill.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 6:30 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:26 pm)
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE
Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding?  ???

As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post.

I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight.

Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not!  It's that simple.  :;):

1. What is the connection between how I post and owning guns?

2. My complaint was that we never hear about how gun owners saving lives. All we hear is how they use thier guns to kill.

Be careful DD, he might be armed.   :laugh:
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And as only B2W can, another thread is derailed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 2:42 pm)
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How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? It seems that carrying is just another reason to react with violence.

Here you go. You're welcome.

Hardly a hero? Vic Stacy rejects the label, claiming he only did what had to be done

In all seriousness, it does seem impossible to keep irresponsible people from having guns. That doesn't mean the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist and we don't have to find some balance there.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Alright, back to topic then...

Methinks the reason why we hear far fewer stories about positive outcomes of gun ownership... is likely some combination of:

1.  When gun owners (Good Samaritans) save lives, it is often saving the lives of those threatened by other  gun owners (armed crooks)!  The issue of gun proliferation therefore remains.

2.  Our media feeds on the controversial.  Good Samaritan stories just don't make it to the front pages nearly as often -- guns or no guns.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news.  Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:50 pm)
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I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news.  Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common.

The same reason why good lawyers don't make the news...but I'll bet there are far fewer of us than there are good cops as a percentage, I'd guess...

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 5:42 pm)
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How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time?

Stories about all sorts of heroic acts are reported all the time.  The thing is, with the possible exception of police and military personnel, heroic acts rarely seem to involve armed heros.  Maybe that says something.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:06 pm)
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(JimInMD @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:50 pm)
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I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news.  Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common.

The same reason why good lawyers don't make the news...

The same reason too, why countless priests and nuns who devote their lives to serving others are ignored (or at least unreported) -- while the despicable deeds of a minority are held up for repeated ridicule of all.  Ditto too for school teachers, scout masters, etc., etc., etc.

Speaks volumes of just who and what we are -- for better and for worse.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm betting he didn't vote for Obama.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Nov. 28 2012, 5:16 pm)
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 5:42 pm)
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How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time?

Stories about all sorts of heroic acts are reported all the time.  The thing is, with the possible exception of police and military personnel, heroic acts rarely seem to involve armed heros.  Maybe that says something.

I'm certainly not denying that heroics exist. Of course they do.

What is the ratio of guns used (by citizens not civil workers) to save someone who would have been injured or killed vs the number of times guns are used to injur or kill.

The ratio seems to be pretty much one-sided.

For the record, I am not anti-gun. Never have been. Never will be.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 7:33 pm)
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What is the ratio of guns used (by citizens not civil workers) to save someone who would have been injured or killed vs the number of times guns are used to injur or kill.

The ratio seems to be pretty much one-sided.

For the record, I am not anti-gun. Never have been. Never will be.

Hard number to figure out in all likelihood.  I'm sure the NRA and the Brady Campaign both have figures you could dig up.  Of course they're both skewed to their perspective by selectively adding or ignoring segments they don't like.

I will say that I suspect the overwhelming number of times that people have been "saved" by guns, they were saving themselves and not someone else.  It's just not expected for an armed citizen to go toward danger.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 9:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed.  The problem is filtering out the sane responsible law abiding citizens from those who are not.

In NY, we try to do that upfront before you get a permit to carry concealed.  The NRA thinks it should be the other way around - everyone gets a gun, then we take them away from people who do something insane, irresponsible or illegal with the gun.

So in the view of the NRA, even if Michael David Dunn is determined to have committed a crime or an irresponsible act or an insane act with his gun, the right result has been reached.  He got his gun and lost it only after he did something insane, illegal or irresponsible with it.

The problem with the NRA's position is that it doesn't account for the right of 17-year old Jordan Russell Davis to live free of Michael David Dunn's insanity, criminality, or irresponsibility.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 10:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

'I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed.'

Why would that be? Why would a rational, sane person even want to be armed?

Isn't there something a little odd about people who feel the need to be armed in the first place? Insecurity? Paranoia? Gunsmith fascination?

What exactly is a law abiding citizen anyway? Does a guy that drives too fast according to the traffic laws, hates his neighbors, and cheats on his taxes and his wife deserve to own firearms?

Psychologically why do humans feel a need to own firearms in modern society? And, are people who have this compulsion more prone to following the other laws of society? Obviously they do trust other people to do so, eh?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"..even want to be armed?"

From their reasoned consideration of their own condition one can presume. Nogods construct, after all, says that. Here in the United States adults have the right to make that very personal decision. As in many personal choices I'm not going to presume to know better than they.

Do you psychologically feel the need to lock your doors and or have smoke detectors with fresh batteries in them? Locksmith fetish? Feel your ceiling needed some additional techie decoration?
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:42 pm)
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How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time?

You mean something like this?
http://armed-citizens.com/ArmedCitizens/ArmedCitizens.aspx

BTW, a responsible gun owner doesn't unload on a bunch of unarmed kids just because they're annoying.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:42 pm)
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.. It seems that carrying is just another reason to react with violence....

I think these loose laws may give a few hotheads and malcontents the encouragement to push the limits, especially in a stressful situation when a gun owner looses their cool.  

Right now there needs to be a detailed investigation and, if the gun owner is guilty, the appropriate punishment handed down.  I'm sure there's video tape covering the gas pumps.

Add, hope this isn't a trend towards solving problems with pistol duals  at 10 paces.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 28 2012, 9:03 pm)
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:42 pm)
QUOTE
How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time?

You mean something like this?
http://armed-citizens.com/ArmedCitizens/ArmedCitizens.aspx

BTW, a responsible gun owner doesn't unload on a bunch of unarmed kids just because they're annoying.

A couple of things.

First, he was called a responsible gun owner by his lawyer, not me.

Second, reading the examples on the link you provided, it seems all except one or two were examples of self-defense. My question is why aren't there more situations of where armed citizens are preventing crime.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Nov. 28 2012, 7:03 pm)
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'I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed.'

Why would that be? Why would a rational, sane person even want to be armed?

Isn't there something a little odd about people who feel the need to be armed in the first place? Insecurity? Paranoia? Gunsmith fascination?

What exactly is a law abiding citizen anyway? Does a guy that drives too fast according to the traffic laws, hates his neighbors, and cheats on his taxes and his wife deserve to own firearms?

Psychologically why do humans feel a need to own firearms in modern society? And, are people who have this compulsion more prone to following the other laws of society? Obviously they do trust other people to do so, eh?

Because there are some very, truly scary people out there that will kill you?

Los Angeles during the LA riots, Oakland during some serious natural disasters, and living in some very scary neighborhoods with my dad made this rational, sane girl want to be armed in certain situations.

Have you ever had someone break into your house, at night? If they do that they KNOW someone is likely to be home. I'll never forget this happening at my place when I was a kid - maybe 8? Within 20 seconds my grandpa was up and out with the shotgun ready to go. They heard that thing and they were gone. What if he hadn't had it? Our property was the last lot still considered "county" rather than city, and it was at least a 20 minute wait for county sheriff to respond.

There are totally legitimate arguments for various regulations and restrictions, but saying wanting to be armed makes you irrational and insane?

I'm not sure that's a sustainable position.


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Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 12:26 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Getting back to the original incident, I hope that anybody who empties his gun into a carload of people and thinks that's the end of it will be precluded from future opportunities to do so.
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 6:30 pm)
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2. My complaint was that we never hear about how gun owners saving lives. All we hear is how they use thier guns to kill.

Stop watching liberal main stream media channels and perhaps you will.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 7:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(tamarac @ Nov. 28 2012, 10:03 pm)
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Why would that be? Why would a rational, sane person even want to be armed?

Isn't there something a little odd about people who feel the need to be armed in the first place? Insecurity? Paranoia? Gunsmith fascination?

If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

Enjoy being a victim, Wuss.


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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 8:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

So are you like this because you've been laughed at by all the other kids Patsy? I've noticed you are quite a sensitive little flower.
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