| Topic: Music too loud? You deserve to die. "Responsible", gun owner open fires on unarmed teens. | < Next Oldest | Next Newest > |
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desert dweller 
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 5:42 pm |
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How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? It seems that carrying is just another reason to react with violence.
Florida man pleads not guilty to shooting teen to death over loud music
Jacksonville Sheriff's Office
Michael Dunn is accused of the shooting death of Jordan Davis.
By Elizabeth Chuck, NBC News
A Florida gun collector has pleaded not guilty to a murder charge alleging that he opened fire on a car full of unarmed teenagers, killing one, in an altercation that police say stemmed from loud music.
Dunn and his girlfriend drove off and spent the night at their hotel, according to Schoonover, but witnesses took down his license plate number. Police arrested him Saturday morning at his home in Satellite Beach, Fla., on one charge of murder and three charges of attempted murder.
Source.
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| Post Number: 2
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GoBlueHiker
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:04 pm |
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The lawyer's statements seem absurd, at least so far.
QUOTE "His side of the story is he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action," Schoonover said.
On Monday, Dunn — a gun collector who shot at local gun ranges, according to authorities — pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court, with his attorney describing his actions as self-defense.
"Once all the facts come out, that what really happened is known, it will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted responsibly and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted under these same circumstances," said his attorney, Robin Lemonidis, reported FirstCoastNews.com, the website for NBC station WTLV in Jacksonville.
If that was the case, why would he drive away, spend the night at a hotel, and when you hear the news the next morning, decide to flee, never turning himself in and instead needing to be tracked down by the cops? That doesn't add up.
But then again, all I have is a news blip. He'll see his day in court, and see what happens from there.
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| Post Number: 3
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Ben2World
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:12 pm |
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Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding? 
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 7
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Ben2World
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:26 pm |
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding? As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post. I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight.
Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not! It's that simple. 
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 8
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desert dweller
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:30 pm |
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(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:26 pm)
QUOTE
(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding? As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post. I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight. Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not! It's that simple.
1. What is the connection between how I post and owning guns?
2. My complaint was that we never hear about how gun owners saving lives. All we hear is how they use thier guns to kill.
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| Post Number: 9
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big_load
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:33 pm |
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 6:30 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:26 pm)
QUOTE
(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:25 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:12 pm)
QUOTE Music too loud -- you mean like bolding stuff that don't need bolding? As I explained before, Ben, I BOLD headlines, Italicize content and link to sources. It's a way to differentiate between parts of the post. I can't help if the bold-ing affects your eyesight. Then quit complaining about other people's valid views toward carrying guns -- or not! It's that simple. 1. What is the connection between how I post and owning guns? 2. My complaint was that we never hear about how gun owners saving lives. All we hear is how they use thier guns to kill.
Be careful DD, he might be armed. 
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| Post Number: 10
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jcb
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:41 pm |
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And as only B2W can, another thread is derailed.
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| Post Number: 11
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yosemite girl
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:42 pm |
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(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 2:42 pm)
QUOTE How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? It seems that carrying is just another reason to react with violence.
Here you go. You're welcome.
Hardly a hero? Vic Stacy rejects the label, claiming he only did what had to be done
In all seriousness, it does seem impossible to keep irresponsible people from having guns. That doesn't mean the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist and we don't have to find some balance there.
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QUOTE ...there's just something about him.
Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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| Post Number: 12
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Ben2World
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:47 pm |
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Alright, back to topic then...
Methinks the reason why we hear far fewer stories about positive outcomes of gun ownership... is likely some combination of:
1. When gun owners (Good Samaritans) save lives, it is often saving the lives of those threatened by other gun owners (armed crooks)! The issue of gun proliferation therefore remains.
2. Our media feeds on the controversial. Good Samaritan stories just don't make it to the front pages nearly as often -- guns or no guns.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 13
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JimInMD
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 6:50 pm |
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I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news. Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common.
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| Post Number: 14
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yosemite girl
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:06 pm |
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(JimInMD @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:50 pm)
QUOTE I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news. Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common.
The same reason why good lawyers don't make the news...but I'll bet there are far fewer of us than there are good cops as a percentage, I'd guess...
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QUOTE ...there's just something about him.
Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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| Post Number: 16
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Ben2World
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:17 pm |
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(yosemite girl @ Nov. 28 2012, 4:06 pm)
QUOTE
(JimInMD @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:50 pm)
QUOTE I'd say it's the same reason why bad cops make the evening news. Good cops just doing their jobs aren't that interesting even though we're far more common. The same reason why good lawyers don't make the news...
The same reason too, why countless priests and nuns who devote their lives to serving others are ignored (or at least unreported) -- while the despicable deeds of a minority are held up for repeated ridicule of all. Ditto too for school teachers, scout masters, etc., etc., etc.
Speaks volumes of just who and what we are -- for better and for worse.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 17
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nogods
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:20 pm |
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I'm betting he didn't vote for Obama.
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| Post Number: 18
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desert dweller
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 7:33 pm |
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(TigerFan @ Nov. 28 2012, 5:16 pm)
QUOTE
(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 5:42 pm)
QUOTE How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? Stories about all sorts of heroic acts are reported all the time. The thing is, with the possible exception of police and military personnel, heroic acts rarely seem to involve armed heros. Maybe that says something.
I'm certainly not denying that heroics exist. Of course they do.
What is the ratio of guns used (by citizens not civil workers) to save someone who would have been injured or killed vs the number of times guns are used to injur or kill.
The ratio seems to be pretty much one-sided.
For the record, I am not anti-gun. Never have been. Never will be.
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| Post Number: 19
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| Post Number: 20
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nogods
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 9:16 pm |
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I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed. The problem is filtering out the sane responsible law abiding citizens from those who are not.
In NY, we try to do that upfront before you get a permit to carry concealed. The NRA thinks it should be the other way around - everyone gets a gun, then we take them away from people who do something insane, irresponsible or illegal with the gun.
So in the view of the NRA, even if Michael David Dunn is determined to have committed a crime or an irresponsible act or an insane act with his gun, the right result has been reached. He got his gun and lost it only after he did something insane, illegal or irresponsible with it.
The problem with the NRA's position is that it doesn't account for the right of 17-year old Jordan Russell Davis to live free of Michael David Dunn's insanity, criminality, or irresponsibility.
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| Post Number: 21
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tamarac
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 10:03 pm |
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'I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed.'
Why would that be? Why would a rational, sane person even want to be armed?
Isn't there something a little odd about people who feel the need to be armed in the first place? Insecurity? Paranoia? Gunsmith fascination?
What exactly is a law abiding citizen anyway? Does a guy that drives too fast according to the traffic laws, hates his neighbors, and cheats on his taxes and his wife deserve to own firearms?
Psychologically why do humans feel a need to own firearms in modern society? And, are people who have this compulsion more prone to following the other laws of society? Obviously they do trust other people to do so, eh?
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| Post Number: 22
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High_Sierra_Fan
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 10:22 pm |
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"..even want to be armed?"
From their reasoned consideration of their own condition one can presume. Nogods construct, after all, says that. Here in the United States adults have the right to make that very personal decision. As in many personal choices I'm not going to presume to know better than they.
Do you psychologically feel the need to lock your doors and or have smoke detectors with fresh batteries in them? Locksmith fetish? Feel your ceiling needed some additional techie decoration?
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desert dweller
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:18 pm |
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(Montanalonewolf @ Nov. 28 2012, 9:03 pm)
QUOTE
(desert dweller @ Nov. 28 2012, 3:42 pm)
QUOTE How come we never hear about resposible gun owners who have saved someone's life because they were armed and in the right place at the right time? You mean something like this? http://armed-citizens.com/ArmedCitizens/ArmedCitizens.aspxBTW, a responsible gun owner doesn't unload on a bunch of unarmed kids just because they're annoying.
A couple of things.
First, he was called a responsible gun owner by his lawyer, not me.
Second, reading the examples on the link you provided, it seems all except one or two were examples of self-defense. My question is why aren't there more situations of where armed citizens are preventing crime.
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| Post Number: 26
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yosemite girl
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Posted on: Nov. 28 2012, 11:24 pm |
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(tamarac @ Nov. 28 2012, 7:03 pm)
QUOTE 'I think every sane responsible law abiding citizen has the right to be armed.'
Why would that be? Why would a rational, sane person even want to be armed?
Isn't there something a little odd about people who feel the need to be armed in the first place? Insecurity? Paranoia? Gunsmith fascination?
What exactly is a law abiding citizen anyway? Does a guy that drives too fast according to the traffic laws, hates his neighbors, and cheats on his taxes and his wife deserve to own firearms?
Psychologically why do humans feel a need to own firearms in modern society? And, are people who have this compulsion more prone to following the other laws of society? Obviously they do trust other people to do so, eh?
Because there are some very, truly scary people out there that will kill you?
Los Angeles during the LA riots, Oakland during some serious natural disasters, and living in some very scary neighborhoods with my dad made this rational, sane girl want to be armed in certain situations.
Have you ever had someone break into your house, at night? If they do that they KNOW someone is likely to be home. I'll never forget this happening at my place when I was a kid - maybe 8? Within 20 seconds my grandpa was up and out with the shotgun ready to go. They heard that thing and they were gone. What if he hadn't had it? Our property was the last lot still considered "county" rather than city, and it was at least a 20 minute wait for county sheriff to respond.
There are totally legitimate arguments for various regulations and restrictions, but saying wanting to be armed makes you irrational and insane?
I'm not sure that's a sustainable position.
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QUOTE ...there's just something about him.
Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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| Post Number: 27
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big_load
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 12:26 am |
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Getting back to the original incident, I hope that anybody who empties his gun into a carload of people and thinks that's the end of it will be precluded from future opportunities to do so.
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Land Rover
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Posted on: Nov. 29 2012, 8:42 am |
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So are you like this because you've been laughed at by all the other kids Patsy? I've noticed you are quite a sensitive little flower.
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