SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: See what happens, When Govt tries to control spending< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
BillBab Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5298
Joined: Sep. 2008
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 01 2012, 10:02 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I lived in the Springs for 3 years.....they have it figured out

Always have

http://reason.com/blog....-got-co


--------------
"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."

Thomas Sowell
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 8:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In Oct, federal revenues were up by something like 17% over last year at the same time yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase.

Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased revenues won't solve the problem in the future.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
hbfa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 8300
Joined: Feb. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 2:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'll give a nod to those who stepped up to help fill in the gaps in services due to budget shortfalls.
That's part of what a "community" is IMO.

However I think it's naive to expect these stop-gap measures to continue for the long term.  People are willing to step up and help during a crisis.....to a point.  Expecting this behavior to be long-lived is an unrealistic libertarian pipe dream.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43873
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 3:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 02 2012, 5:27 am)
QUOTE
In Oct, federal revenues were up by something like 17% over last year at the same time yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase.

Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased revenues won't solve the problem in the future.

Not quite clear on what "greatest recession since the Great Depression" actually means I take it?

Of course revenues will come up , though slowly due to the damage dine to the economy, as the economy improves from that economic calamity. That's why the annual deficit is decreasing as revenues increase.

ETA Oh and "yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase. "? No they actually didn't.

Table 1. Summary of Receipts, Outlays, and the Deficit/Surplus of the U.S. Government, Fiscal Years 2012 and 2013, by Month
[$ millions]

October receipts: 184,316, October outlays: 304,311

The arithmetic? A deficit of 119,995

Eta2: So what won't "help" are totally fantasy numbers that get pulled out of some talking point's butt and thrown against the wall to see if anything will stick.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10727
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 3:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Dec. 01 2012, 10:02 pm)
QUOTE
I lived in the Springs for 3 years.....they have it figured out

Always have

http://reason.com/blog....-got-co

No where in that Libertarian source does it mention anything about how much better the
unemployment rate improved from those cutbacks. In fact no where in the article does it
mention "unemployment rate". Gee I wonder why that is. I mean after all it seems to me if
someone was going to make the case that "austerity measures"(which failed horribly in Europe
recently not to mention during 1937 during the Great Depression) would help during the
recessions that the very first measure of success should be how the unemployment rate changes
as a result.

Well here are the stats that compare Colorado Springs unemployment rate with the rest of
Colorado and the nation at large for 2012 and the later part of 2011

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/colorado/colorado-springs/

As you can see the unemployment rate for Colorado Springs is worse and when the nation's
unemployment improved over a year ago Colorado Springs unemployment rate got worse(even
when compared to Colorado as a whole)

and I'm sure it would look pretty much the same for 2009-2011 as well


Fact is its been prove time and time again that Austerity measures make the economy worse.
Again just look at Europe and see how their Austerity measures have failed.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10727
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 3:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montanalonewolf said
QUOTE

In Oct, federal revenues were up by something like 17% over last year at the same time yet
the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase.


Got a link on that? I will say though that every year of every administration always sees
an increase in spending just to keep up with population growth. Having said that the growth
of spending under the current administration has been the slowest since at least 1960 and
deficits our shrinking faster than anytime since ww II(and I've provided the links on those
stats over and over again in this forum)

Montanalonewolf said
QUOTE

Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased
revenues won't solve the problem in the future.


Out of control spending because those in the right-wing entertainment complex tell you its
out of control spending? Like what years did we have "out of control spending" and by
what criteria? Spending as share of the population? As a share of the GDP? Like I said
the growth of spending right now under Obama is the slowest since at least 1960(again
I've documented this time and time again in this forum)

Increase revenue certainly does help the problem.  The steep increase in our deficits since
the fall of 2008 are every bit related to the decline of revenue(Revenue as a share of the
economy during the Obama administration is the by some estimates the lowest since 1950.
The overall tax burden during the Obama administration has been the lowest since 1958). Now
I've posted documentation after documentation(from mainstream sources) showing that this
decline in revenue is every bit as important in explaining our debt problem. Of course as
HSF points out, revenues will go up. In fact, aside from when your in a recession, revenues
are always going up simply because the tax base gets larger but the generally longer your
out of a recession the faster the increase in revenues

Its boggles the mind(but not surprising in the least) that we still have people who still
repeat the narrative that the fiscal and/economic problems in our country are just related
to spending and revenue has nothing to do with it.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Gabby Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6493
Joined: Jun. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 5:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When I read this early this morning, I thought, "Well, it's BillBab, so it's very, very likely to be pure crap". Hardly worth anyone's time - but, well...

As a matter of fact, even though BB claims to have lived in Colorado Springs for 3 years, and I have only spent 2 nights there in a hotel, I realize that the city's economy is based primarily on...wait for it...gummint military installations!

I guess this salient fact went right by the wishfully [not] thinking (as usual) Mr. BB.

And, yeah, data from Brookings Institute MetroMonitor reports put Colorado Springs in the "weakest-performing metros" category, primarily because - oh, yes - they lost government jobs. There are a number of factors involved in why a metropolitan area is recovering well, or not - and no one believes that "citizen volunteerism" or "self-dependence", however laudable, is one of those.

QUOTE
The economy of Colorado Springs is based primarily on the military installations in the area as well as on the aerospace and electronics industries and tourism. The military employs one fifth of the work force in the city.
http://www.city-data.com/us-citi....my.html

QUOTE
The metropolitan areas with the strongest economic recoveries generally gained government jobs, while those with the weakest recoveries generally lost them. Eleven of the 20 strongest-recovering  metropolitan areas (Austin, Bakersfield, Boise, Dallas, Houston, Nashville, New Orleans, Phoenix, Provo,  Worcester, and Youngstown) gained government jobs (federal (including military), state, and local  combined), while the rest lost them.  Eleven of the 20 metropolitan areas with the weakest economic  recoveries (Allentown, Atlanta, Colorado Springs, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Little Rock, Los Angeles, Modesto, Philadelphia, San Antonio, and Stockton) lost government jobs since their total employment hit bottom, while six (Baton Rouge, Fresno, Honolulu, Palm Bay, Poughkeepsie, and Sacramento) gained  them, and the rest had no change in government employment.
http://www.brookings.edu/~....monitor

Try again.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 26344
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 9:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 02 2012, 5:27 am)
QUOTE
Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased revenues won't solve the problem in the future.

I doubt anyone is saying that our fiscal problem can be solved by tax increases alone.  Clearer heads believe we need both painful spending cuts (i.e. curbing unrealistic demands of our government) and appropriate tax increases as well in order to close our yawning trillion-dollar budget gap.

I know we can all agree that there is an awful lot of inappropriate spending and downright waste -- but I don't think those alone make up a full trillion dollars.  Methinks folks who decry solving our fiscal problems with cuts alone are both unrealistic and unhelpful.


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43873
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 02 2012, 11:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Increased revenues haven't"

Like during the Clinton administration with its 1993 tax increases? Funny, that's not what the CBO was reporting.

Here:
Revenues, Outlays, Deficits, Surpluses, and Debt Held by the Public, 1970 to 2009, in Billions of Dollars
How the Deficit Got This Big
By TERESA TRITCH


Surpluses wiped out by tax cuts and unpaid for wars.

THE BUDGET AND ECONOMIC OUTLOOK: FISCAL YEARS 2001-2010

Before that Bush policy change from the Clinton administration the projections are for trillions in accumulated surpluses reducing the federal debt of such concern.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6631
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2012, 7:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 02 2012, 10:45 pm)
QUOTE
"Increased revenues haven't"

Like during the Clinton administration with its 1993 tax increases? Funny, that's not what the CBO was reporting.

Here:
Revenues, Outlays, Deficits, Surpluses, and Debt Held by the Public, 1970 to 2009, in Billions of Dollars
How the Deficit Got This Big
By TERESA TRITCH


Surpluses wiped out by tax cuts and unpaid for wars.

THE BUDGET AND ECONOMIC OUTLOOK: FISCAL YEARS 2001-2010

Before that Bush policy change from the Clinton administration the projections are for trillions in accumulated surpluses reducing the federal debt of such concern.

+1

Amazing how a few pertinent facts can totally slap down oft-stated "conservative" beliefs.

More amazing still is how often those beliefs are stated regardless of the facts.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2012, 8:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 02 2012, 1:21 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 02 2012, 5:27 am)
QUOTE
In Oct, federal revenues were up by something like 17% over last year at the same time yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase.

Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased revenues won't solve the problem in the future.

Not quite clear on what "greatest recession since the Great Depression" actually means I take it?

Of course revenues will come up , though slowly due to the damage dine to the economy, as the economy improves from that economic calamity. That's why the annual deficit is decreasing as revenues increase.

ETA Oh and "yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase. "? No they actually didn't.

Table 1. Summary of Receipts, Outlays, and the Deficit/Surplus of the U.S. Government, Fiscal Years 2012 and 2013, by Month
[$ millions]

October receipts: 184,316, October outlays: 304,311

The arithmetic? A deficit of 119,995

Eta2: So what won't "help" are totally fantasy numbers that get pulled out of some talking point's butt and thrown against the wall to see if anything will stick.

I heard the figure on NPR 2 weeks ago.

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43873
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 03 2012, 11:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 03 2012, 5:19 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 02 2012, 1:21 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 02 2012, 5:27 am)
QUOTE
In Oct, federal revenues were up by something like 17% over last year at the same time yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase.

Increased revenues haven't helped with out of control spending in the past, increased revenues won't solve the problem in the future.

Not quite clear on what "greatest recession since the Great Depression" actually means I take it?

Of course revenues will come up , though slowly due to the damage dine to the economy, as the economy improves from that economic calamity. That's why the annual deficit is decreasing as revenues increase.

ETA Oh and "yet the feds managed to spend some $185B MORE than that increase. "? No they actually didn't.

Table 1. Summary of Receipts, Outlays, and the Deficit/Surplus of the U.S. Government, Fiscal Years 2012 and 2013, by Month
[$ millions]

October receipts: 184,316, October outlays: 304,311

The arithmetic? A deficit of 119,995

Eta2: So what won't "help" are totally fantasy numbers that get pulled out of some talking point's butt and thrown against the wall to see if anything will stick.

I heard the figure on NPR 2 weeks ago.

And obviously the person on the audio on NPR (they run audio of many, many different sources, I've heard Boehner, McConnell etc. saying their usual stuff  as both NPR and PBS programs like Washington Week run "tape" of various politicians when covering national issues) was wrong or lying. Or what you heard was their saying the revenue total which was about 185 billion and didn't catch what the number was really related to.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2012, 8:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.


--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Drift Woody Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6631
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2012, 9:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 04 2012, 7:22 am)
QUOTE
Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.

"spend your way out of debt"

That phrase has no logical meaning because it considers only one half of the equation.

You can increase spending and still reduce debt if revenue increases at a faster rate than spending + interest on the debt.


--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
HighGravity Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4654
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2012, 4:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 04 2012, 8:22 am)
QUOTE
Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. We call it investing.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43873
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 04 2012, 6:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe it's not the debt, it's that sinful paying interest on the loaned money?

Maybe were the federal government to stop the sinful payment of interest (usury) global warming would be halted?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
davela Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 659
Joined: Dec. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 05 2012, 3:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"See what happens, When Govt tries to control spending"

So when the govt tried to control spending in Medicare by insisting it be able to negotiate medicine prices with big pharma guess who stopped  it?Thats right,the GOP.They passed the 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug that forbids the govt from negotiating prices.
Republicans want corporate america to rip off american taxpayers at every opportunity.Its called the free-markets-hahaha.


--------------

Protect Greater Canyonlands!

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 18
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16679
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 05 2012, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Interesting there is no mention that Emergency Services were cut so far to the bone that the local response to the catastrophic fire last summer was WORTHLESS and more than anything else the reason more than 300 people lost their homes. The leaders in the Springs would be ashamed if they weren't so detached from reality.

I went to Colorado College and lived in the Springs the better part of 20 years. After guns the second biggest industry is God. It is unequivocally the city I've known to have the heaviest concentration of selfish posterior orifices.


--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 05 2012, 11:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Dec. 04 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 04 2012, 8:22 am)
QUOTE
Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. We call it investing.

It's an obvious losing proposition when money is borrowed at a higher interest rate than the return of whatever it's invested in.

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 12:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 05 2012, 8:33 pm)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Dec. 04 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 04 2012, 8:22 am)
QUOTE
Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. We call it investing.

It's an obvious losing proposition when money is borrowed at a higher interest rate than the return of whatever it's invested in.

What's the current T-bill rate, and how does it compare to historic T-bill rates? Or to the rate of inflation, for that matter?

Just asking.


--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 21
HighGravity Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4654
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 4:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 05 2012, 11:33 pm)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Dec. 04 2012, 2:06 pm)
QUOTE

(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 04 2012, 8:22 am)
QUOTE
Or the guy got the figures reversed or I did.

Regardless, it's not possible to spend your way out of debt.

Sure it is. People do it all the time. We call it investing.

It's an obvious losing proposition when money is borrowed at a higher interest rate than the return of whatever it's invested in.

Yes that would be. It's a winning proposition when it's borrowed at a lower rate than the ROI. Any other obvious things you'd like to discuss?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 22
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If federal investing is so successful, then why is the national debt raging out of control?

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 23
TehipiteTom Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 5713
Joined: Jul. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 6:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 06 2012, 3:42 pm)
QUOTE
If federal investing is so successful, then why is the national debt raging out of control?

I'm not so sure it is "raging out of control", but that's a subjective determination.  

Anyway, the answer is that the biggest contributors to the debt in recent years (the Bush tax cuts, and the Iraq & Afghanistan wars) aren't investment.  (The other big contributor is the recession, which drastically reduced revenues.)  Giving free money to the ultra-wealthy doesn't provide any tangible benefit to future economic health, and it does virtually nothing to stimulate the economy at the time--so it's effectively throwing money away.


--------------
Conservatives are the whiniest whiners in the wholy whiny history of whiny-ass whinerdom.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 24
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6756
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 7:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

thanks for clear explanations Tom, using real facts, logic and understanding of the political history that has led to the current state of things in our country.

Glad somebody has the patience to continue to state the obvious, over and over.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 25
HighGravity Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4654
Joined: Oct. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 8:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Dec. 06 2012, 6:42 pm)
QUOTE
If federal investing is so successful, then why is the national debt raging out of control?

Because of the conservative philosophy of spend but don't tax.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
24 replies since Dec. 01 2012, 10:02 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply See what happens
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions