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JimInMD 
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 6:01 am |
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012....15.html
Once again, please discuss. If Assad's forces deploy sarin, how will the international community respond? How SHOULD they respond?
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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Land Rover
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 7:48 am |
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I think a lot will depend on how Russia and china react. This is not a sign of American weakness, but a reality of there being little direct national interest in directly entering a conflict in Syria.
Turkey will be a key in it all as well.
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Squaretop
Group: Members
Posts: 1199
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 9:13 am |
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I don't think
Assad will use the chemicals. Hopefully, Russia and China can talk some sense into him.
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You can't buy time or memories.
"How'd I get involved".
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JimInMD
Group: Members
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Joined: Feb. 2011
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 9:30 am |
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I don't think he'll use them offensively. I think that if he's in danger of losing control of the country, he's going to take as many people with him as he can.
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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| Post Number: 5
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Land Rover
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 10:03 am |
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A weapon of last resort perhaps? I can see that. Maybe he hopes the threat of it will save him.
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| Post Number: 6
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Pathfinder1
Group: Members
Posts: 658
Joined: Apr. 2011
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 10:45 am |
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Hi...
Then, it's time to break out MOAB...!!
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Lamebeaver
trail? I don't need no stinkin trail!
Group: Members
Posts: 16203
Joined: Aug. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 12:02 pm |
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Syrian Sarin would be a great name for a band.
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 12:36 pm |
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Whether by massed artillery fire such as used by Russia on the people of Grozny or a chemical agent such as this one, mass murder is mass murder.
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| Post Number: 10
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Ben2World
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 1:15 pm |
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We went through our own 'trial by fire' and came out a stronger nation. The Lincoln Administration used all the technology and weaponry of its day to bind the union, no matter what. Sherman made it his goal to "make Georgia howl".
Seriously, imagine if the South had succeeded in getting the British Empire to intervene -- to tie Lincoln's hand! Probably:
1. Far fewer deaths and destruction those four years?
2. Far longer / drawn out civil war instead?
3. Britain becomes the lightning rod -- attacked and manipulated by all sides?
3. Or we are now separate nations still wary of each other?
To me, the issue isn't comparing Assad to Lincoln (ludicrous) or our society vs. Syrian society. The issue is that more often than not, societies need to hammer out their problems -- and sometimes, that includes fighting it out -- to finally be one -- or to finally go their separate ways.
It's hard to see humans bludgeoned and not wanting to "do something" -- but we do need to look at the bigger picture -- and likely outcomes before we sink ourselves into the fight.
As another example, Egypt still has a lot to do, but they are working on it (including fighting it out). Imagine if we had championed the current Egyptian president-turned-dictator!! Half the country would start hating us again..
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8742
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 1:25 pm |
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My question: legitimate concern or sabre-rattling?
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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Ben2World
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 1:30 pm |
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(Lamebeaver @ Dec. 06 2012, 10:23 am)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Dec. 06 2012, 11:15 am)
QUOTE To me, the issue isn't comparing Assad to Lincoln (ludicrous) or our society vs. Syrian society. The issue is that more often than not, societies need to hammer out their problems -- and sometimes, that includes fighting it out -- to finally be one -- or to finally go their separate ways. I don't know. If the South had won, I think Lincoln would not have been treated very nicely in their history books.
Agree. The victor gets to write the history book. And that's why I posted the photos -- to remind ourselves of the brutality -- a brutality that took 100+ years to heal (and some will argue we are still not 100% healed).
In our case, one side won by vanquishing the other. OTOH, we could well have divided ourselves into multiple nations - especially if there had been foreign intervention to reign in some of the North's brutality! But imagine WWII, if USA supported Britain while CSA supported Germany. Our cities and our countryside could easily have been devastated -- just like the ones in Europe back then!
Lots of "we don't know's". But mostly, I believe it's better to let the locals forge their own societies -- both in principle -- and for practical reasons too.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 14
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 1:38 pm |
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Not much new world thinking here, neh? It's not the world of the US Civil War, Toto.
Neither Turkey nor Israel is going to stand by and permit the use of Syrian sarin, IMO. I suspect that either one of them could remove Assad within a few hours, and a lot of his control and command, and then the threat of Syrian genocide would be over.
Hopefully, Assad is fully aware of this and even when facing final loss, which will happen, will not deploy the sarin. I suppose it depends on far his megolmania extends. YMMV
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| Post Number: 15
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 1:40 pm |
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As an aside, if the South had been willing to abolish slavery, the British almost certainly would have stepped in to support them, but like higher taxes for the rich, that was a non-starter in the South!
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 2:13 pm |
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I agree, they would do nothing to enter into Syrian government issues, it would just be a larger, louder Bin Laden like operation, kill Assad and his top generals and let the chips fall where they may.
Just stop the escalation to sarin in such a crowded neighborhood, and leave the Syrians to work out their own future. Neither Israel nor Turkey has any territorial interest in Syria, but they won't let sarin happen. Probably a Seal Team or two to assist them too, though never admitted.
Pretty much like what will happen if Iran ever makes the mistake to produce a nuclear weapon.
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| Post Number: 19
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8742
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 2:49 pm |
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Another question: The use of the over-used words "red line"... is that the new PC way to say "a line in the sand"?
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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| Post Number: 20
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 2:52 pm |
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Naw, not all that PC, just an acknowledgement that NASCAR is pervasive in the MSM.
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| Post Number: 21
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39516
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 3:28 pm |
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Probably dates from even before NASCAR was widespread: from back in the day of manual shifts and tachometers where the upper rpm limit was/is designated on the tach with a red line. Heck it might predate the internal combustion era: steam engine pressure gauges with a max-pressure red line?
The "do not go above this setting without risk of bad things" sort of thing.
All those liberal MSM types driving Porsches no doubt.
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| Post Number: 22
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 3:33 pm |
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Very likely back to steam engine gauges.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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Franco
Group: Members
Posts: 2698
Joined: Feb. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 06 2012, 3:45 pm |
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The moment those bombs are loaded onto the planes , the "west" will strike.
There are already more than 10,000 US troops there including over 70 fighter bombers plus the Israeli forces.
Germany is also about to send troops and more Patriots, France and the UK already have military intelligence in the area too.
Is Assad mad enough to do it ?
Is he still there ?
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39516
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 12:10 pm |
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(Montecresto @ Dec. 10 2012, 5:22 am)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Dec. 06 2012, 10:03 am)
QUOTE A weapon of last resort perhaps? I can see that. Maybe he hopes the threat of it will save him. He has never threatened this. His government has repeatedly said they would never use chemical WMD on their own people. The US government and "intelligence community" has no credibility with such claims, think back. Watch Colin Powell's chief of staff, Colonel Wilkerson's interview in the truth about Syria thread!
The guy who fed Powell the lies he mouthed at the U.N. isn't in possession of any "credibility" on his morning bowel movement let alone anything occurring in that part of the world.
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Re-read what I believe are the issues. The principle of self determination. The many uncertainties of intervening in civil wars.
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
