SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Chemical WMD< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 10:50 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Syria warns rebels may use chemical weapons

Rebel fighters take part in a demonstration against the Syrian regime in Aleppo on December 7. Syria has warned that rebels could use chemical weapons in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad's forces, and insisted that the regime will never unleash such arms on its own people.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague talks to journalists last month. Hague has said that there is evidence that the Syrian government could use its chemical weapons stocks in its conflict with rebels fighting to oust it.

Rebel fighters take protest against the Syrian regime in Aleppo on December 7. Syria has warned that rebels could use chemical weapons in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad's forces, and insisted that the regime will never unleash such arms on its own people.
AFP - Syria warned on Saturday that rebels could use chemical weapons in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad's forces, and insisted that the regime will never unleash such arms on its own people.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague, however, said there was evidence the Damascus government could actually employ chemical weapons stocks in the conflict which a rights group says has killed at least 42,000 people in nearly 21 months.

"Terrorist groups may resort to using chemical weapons against the Syrian people... after having gained control of a toxic chlorine factory" east of Aleppo, the foreign ministry said, using the government term for rebel groups.

It added that Damascus would never use such weapons against its own people.

The ministry was believed to be referring to the Syrian-Saudi Chemicals Company (SYSACCO) factory near Safira, which was taken over earlier this week by militants from the jihadist Al-Nusra Front.

Syria "is defending its people against terrorism, which is supported by known countries, with the United States at the forefront," the ministry said.


http://www.france24.com/en....weapons


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 12:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wouldn't be the first time eh? Hussein used similar weapons on both the Iranians and his own people while allied with the United States.

Yet as mentioned, Assad's managed to kill 42,000 people in other ways and, dead being dead, this would largely be the same. Less noisy than, say, the massed artillery fire used by Russia to destroy Grozny, but the same end result: far too many dead civilians.

As far as his using chemicals: no one invested resources into a weapon they aren't ready to use as they deem necessary, whether he'll deem it necessary, like Saddam Hussein did, is unknown at the moment.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 6:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That's true, no one has invested resources into weaponry their not prepared to use.  I'm sure the two atomic bombs we dropped on a targeted and civilian population in Japan consumed quite a bit of available resources. Saddam Hussien was going to use his bio weaponry on our soldiers too. Assad is not responsible for all those 42k dead civilians. The insurgency have killed their fair share. Does anyone think that the US government wouldn't use the military to repel a home grown rebellion/insurgency/revolution, particularly if it was infested with al Qaida?

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 6:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'd assumed the insurgent's body count would be on top of the 42K the rights groups assign to Assad.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6905
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 6:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Dec. 10 2012, 6:21 pm)
QUOTE
Does anyone think that the US government wouldn't use the military to repel a home grown rebellion/insurgency/revolution, particularly if it was infested with al Qaida?

Hmmm.  Depends.  Are you including the National Guard when you say "the military"?  If we exclude National Guard troops under state control, then No, I really think the Federal Government would not use federal troops against US citizens not on federa land inside its own borders.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 10 2012, 6:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Even if the NG (small difference considering they have served in combat along side regular military) were to be overwhelmed?

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 11 2012, 4:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

That’s why, when Saddam first used gas on Halabja, the UMIS told CIA officers to blame Iran. And yes, Bashar probably does have some chemicals in rusting bins somewhere in Syria. Madame Clinton has been worrying that they may “fall into the wrong hands” – as if they are presently “in the right hands”. But the Russians have told Bashar not to use them. Would he piss off his only superpower ally?

And by the way, which was the first army to use gas in the Middle East? Saddam? Nope. The Brits, of course, under General Allenby, against the Turks in Sinai in 1917. And that’s the truth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices....39.html


--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
Bass Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 11 2012, 9:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto
QUOTE
Saddam Hussien was going to use his bio weaponry on our soldiers too.


It is strange that he didn't. He had every opportunity to.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 11 2012, 11:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Bass @ Dec. 11 2012, 6:27 pm)
QUOTE
Montecresto
QUOTE
Saddam Hussien was going to use his bio weaponry on our soldiers too.


It is strange that he didn't. He had every opportunity to.

Reportedly President George H. W. Bush sent the message in no uncertain terms that were our or our allies troops to be subject to an Iraqi WMD attack the United Sates response would have been nuclear weapons.

Mass murderers understand that sort of message. Bush having been the Director of the CIA might have lent it some added weight.

After years of inspection and dismantling there was nothing left for the 2003 invasion, per CIA and DoD after action reports:

Charles Duelfer
Special Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence
Baghdad, September 2004:

DCI Special Advisor Report on Iraq's WMD
https://www.cia.gov/library....ex.html
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 9:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Reportedly"

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 12:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Dec. 12 2012, 6:19 am)
QUOTE
"Reportedly"

So Saddam refrained out of the goodness of his heart?

Yeah that's the answer rather than a credible threat of retaliation.

BTW: All Bush would have been doing is restating what has been United States war policy for decades. WMD (chemical, biological, nuclear) have always been pledged to be massively responded to with nuclear weapons as an option (nothing about nukes is ever spelled out). ever since Nixon ordered our war stocks of chemical weapons destroyed in the 70's leaving the United States without an "equivalent" weapon.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16493
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 12:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Saddam never used a WMD without the tacit approval of either Reagen or Bush 41. Those Administrations signed off on Saddam receiving the "dual use" chemicals knowing full well what he might use them for.

Whoever issued that "report" did so deceitfully to put it kindly. I'd like to see the report or an unequivocal retraction Monte Cristo.


--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 12:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hell Rumsfeld specifically signed off on the American sale of Anthrax to Saddam from the ATCC, who's subsequently changed it's policies.
http://www.atcc.org

As the quip went: we knew Saddam had bioweapons because we had the receipts!.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 12:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Dec. 12 2012, 12:34 pm)
QUOTE
Saddam never used a WMD without the tacit approval of either Reagen or Bush 41. Those Administrations signed off on Saddam receiving the "dual use" chemicals knowing full well what he might use them for.

Whoever issued that "report" did so deceitfully to put it kindly. I'd like to see the report or an unequivocal retraction Monte Cristo.

What is it you would like a retraction of?

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 12:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We found no WMD in Iraq! The whole "mushroom cloud over an American city", "smoking gun", "Saddam will use chemical WMD on troops approaching Bahgdad", was US propaganda of the type that comes from countries the US condemns. But hell, it worked, and the same tripe will work again in Syria, and then again in Iran, and then again wherever else "the elite" wish to pursue their interests, otherwise known as "US interests".

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25454
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 1:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Dec. 12 2012, 9:52 am)
QUOTE

(double cabin @ Dec. 12 2012, 12:34 pm)
QUOTE
Saddam never used a WMD without the tacit approval of either Reagen or Bush 41. Those Administrations signed off on Saddam receiving the "dual use" chemicals knowing full well what he might use them for.

Whoever issued that "report" did so deceitfully to put it kindly. I'd like to see the report or an unequivocal retraction Monte Cristo.

What is it you would like a retraction of?

If it's anti american, then it's deceitful, to put it kindly.   :;):


--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
double cabin Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 16493
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 2:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You asserted a falsehood that Saddam planned on using WMDs on US/Allied troops when there is in fact absolutely no evidence of any such desire let alone plan. You were in error and a retraction would be the dignified thing to do.

--------------
We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.

http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42794
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 3:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

One confusing aspect is we went to war with Iraq twice and the first Gulf War came soon after Saddam had used an array of chemical WMD against various enemies. I'm less confident the possibility wouldn't have been considered had we proceeded from the limited victory centered on Kuwait and headed toward Baghdad and his overthrow back then.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 19
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 12 2012, 4:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(double cabin @ Dec. 12 2012, 2:07 pm)
QUOTE
You asserted a falsehood that Saddam planned on using WMDs on US/Allied troops when there is in fact absolutely no evidence of any such desire let alone plan. You were in error and a retraction would be the dignified thing to do.

I believe you misunderstand me. That Saddam would use chemical WMD on our troops closing in on Bahgdad, was part of the rhetoric coming out of the Bush administration. I'm making the point of the parallel between Iraq and Syria. It wasn't true then, it's not true now. Assad, as everyone else, has seen this movie before. His administration has written a letter to the UN, expressing their concern that the US will frame them on the issue of chemical WMD. They stressed to the UN again, that they have no plan or desire to use them. Russia has supported them in this.

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
Bateauxdriver Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1750
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 1:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Iraq situation was crazy, we supplied Iraq with chemical and conventional weapons in the 80's then went to war to eliminate them in 1990.

Us troops found an entire warehouse of chemical weapons with US manufacturing markings.  Storming Norman ordered the whole damn thing be blow up and didn't bother evacuating our own troops. Not all were safe from the plume and the event caused hundreds if not thousands of cases of Gulf War Syndrome.  I think the general got a metal.  
http://articles.cnn.com/1997-11....s=PM:US
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 21
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 1:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

There you have it.

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
20 replies since Dec. 10 2012, 10:50 am < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Chemical WMD
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions