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Topic: NOT allowing a vote is wrong, Rice withdraws her name from list< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 6:24 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

and cowardly. IMHO

"despite insistence by some GOP Senators that they would oppose her and prevent her nomination from coming to a vote."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world....hpid=z1
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 6:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:24 pm)
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and cowardly. IMHO

"despite insistence by some GOP Senators that they would oppose her and prevent her nomination from coming to a vote."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world....hpid=z1

Just to clarify: you aren't saying Susan Rice (or the President) is cowardly, are you?  The McCain/Graham/Ayotte bunch who would have tried to prevent a vote are the cowardly ones...right?

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 6:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:31 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
and cowardly. IMHO

"despite insistence by some GOP Senators that they would oppose her and prevent her nomination from coming to a vote."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world....hpid=z1

Just to clarify: you aren't saying Susan Rice (or the President) is cowardly, are you?  The McCain/Graham/Ayotte bunch who would have tried to prevent a vote are the cowardly ones...right?

No the Republicans, in not allowing a vote on the nomination, are the cowards.

Yeah the order in the title didn't make that clear did it?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 6:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TehipiteTom @ Dec. 13 2012, 6:31 pm)
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Just to clarify: you aren't saying Susan Rice (or the President) is cowardly, are you?  The McCain/Graham/Ayotte bunch who would have tried to prevent a vote are the cowardly ones...right?

Hmmmm.  Seems to me that when there's a fight, and one side backs down while the other side does not, it's quite clear who desired to avoid the fight.  If avoiding a fight is cowardly, then where the cowardice lies is clear.  But I don't believe avoiding a fight necessarily means cowardice.

That being said, the Republican anti-Rice obsession is silly.  She was a good soldier and did what she was told to do and used the data provided by her boss to do what he wanted done.  If the data she used was faulty, blame her boss, not her.  By all appearances Rice is a very capable individual and in my opinon considerably superior to the alternative, John Kerry.

And as an aside, McCain's anti-Rice obsession confirms why I could not vote for him.  He makes a good gadfly Senator, but these obsessions are counter productive.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 7:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

After the lie she told for the president I don't think she deserves to be Sec. of State.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 8:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wasn't a lie so: wait for it,,,, fail.

In all that chaos only days later knowing anything definitively, demanding anything definitive, is juvenile delusion. And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of McCain and his butt kissing the liars of George "We know the location of chemical weapons" Bush.

That said: former Democratic Party candidate for president Kerry is the better fit for State as I  see it. Rice is a wonk and State isn't a wonk slot.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Dec. 13 2012, 7:26 pm)
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After the lie she told for the president I don't think she deserves to be Sec. of State.

For the sake of argument, let's assume she told a lie.

Did she know it wa a lie?  She was presented with intelligence data and given a job to do.  She did it well.

Earlier, a certain president was presented with intelligence data on WMDs in Iraq.  We went to war to (among other things) eliminate the threat of those WMDs.  Was that a lie?  You and I agree it was not.  Is this any different?  If so, how  so?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So the Party of NO manages to rob the administration of another star diplomat and spokesperson for America by manipulating some over careful classified information in her original public statement.

Way to go Republicans, keep  as many women and African Americans and loyal Democrats alienated as possible.  They weren't going to vote for you anyway.

I suspect that the real goal here is to get Kerry out of the Senate.  He will do ok as SOS, but not as good as Rice.  I hope the Dems stick them with a real firebrand from Massachusetts as Kerry's replacement.  Maybe a young Kennedy who will be there forever??


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 9:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 8:40 pm)
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That said: former Democratic Party candidate for president Kerry is the better fit for State as I  see it. Rice is a wonk and State isn't a wonk slot.

Kerry better than Rice?  I disagree.  And so does the President and his staff.

As for being a wonk, Dr. Kissinger was a wonk AND a very effective Secretary of State, arguably one of the best we've had.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm)
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I suspect that the real goal here is to get Kerry out of the Senate.  

Really?!  To what end?  Is there a scintilla of doubt that Kerry will be replaced by another liberal democrat?  So what's the point of getting him out of the Senate?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also, arguably, one of the worst we've had.  Depends on your viewpoint, and which part of his long career you are examining.

So, Obama was planning to nominate Rice because he thought Kerry was better??

Give me a break.  Now they spin that he was better of course, but you have to be pretty gullible to buy that BS.  Just putting the best face they can on bad situation, and cuddling up to the Senate so they approve Kerry by unanimous consent, IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:12 pm)
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(wwwest @ Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm)
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I suspect that the real goal here is to get Kerry out of the Senate.  

Really?!  To what end?  Is there a scintilla of doubt that Kerry will be replaced by another liberal democrat?  So what's the point of getting him out of the Senate?

The concern is that Brown will run again and given his existing name recognition in the state he may have a good chance of winning.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So what's the point of getting him out of the Senate?

What Land Rover said, plus they get rid of his voice in the Senate as senior member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and have two spanking new Senators from Massachusetts.

Kerry is also one of the reasonable, focussed people who works at compromises with various Republicans, and we can't have that.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:24 pm)
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and cowardly. IMHO

Not taking sides, but the Democrats don't have the super majority required to override GOP opposition and that's that...

After all, haven't the Democrats used similar tactics -- when they were in the minority, but not 'super minority'?  Bet many felt relieved back then... for being in the minority but still managing to stop 'the enemy'?

I see these as session tactics.  I don't see either side qualifying for the moral high ground.  In fact, I see whichever side decrying as being hypocrite.

Just let the vote proceed?  Well, if the Democrats have never, ever killed nominations in committee or  filibustered on the floor -- please correct me.   ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 13 2012, 10:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:18 pm)
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(KenV @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:12 pm)
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(wwwest @ Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm)
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I suspect that the real goal here is to get Kerry out of the Senate.  

Really?!  To what end?  Is there a scintilla of doubt that Kerry will be replaced by another liberal democrat?  So what's the point of getting him out of the Senate?

The concern is that Brown will run again and given his existing name recognition in the state he may have a good chance of winning.

So getting rid of Kerry will improve Brown's chances of getting back into the Senate?  He'll run against a no name instead of a well established name like Kerry?  And he'll be running in an off cycle year where republicans typically do a little better?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 9:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:55 pm)
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(TehipiteTom @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:31 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 13 2012, 3:24 pm)
QUOTE
and cowardly. IMHO

"despite insistence by some GOP Senators that they would oppose her and prevent her nomination from coming to a vote."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world....hpid=z1

Just to clarify: you aren't saying Susan Rice (or the President) is cowardly, are you?  The McCain/Graham/Ayotte bunch who would have tried to prevent a vote are the cowardly ones...right?

No the Republicans, in not allowing a vote on the nomination, are the cowards.

Yeah the order in the title didn't make that clear did it?

That's what I figured. But yeah, there was a little ambiguity in the title.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 9:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

After Benghazi I think at least one head should roll at the state department...and I would prefer to see several....but that is not how government works

While I am no John Kerry fan, I would rather see the new Sec come from outside that dysfunctional organization

And it is funny to see the left complain whenever their old standard tactics are used against them


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 9:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Dec. 14 2012, 8:42 am)
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And it is funny to see the left complain whenever their old standard tactics are used against them.

I agree (sort of) with BillBab--someone may wish to alert the media.

Of course both parties have used the same tactics over the years when the roles were reversed. What's needed, instead of this juvenile tit-for-tat politics (both in Washington and in this thread), is for someone to be the bigger man, so to speak, and say "we're not going to use those tactics, even though they've been used against us in the past."
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 1:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ezra Klein wrote a good review of the issue of the filibuster:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....og.html

Plus:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....og.html
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 2:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hypocrisy much -- ye who decry -- while conveniently ignoring the same done by your fav party?  ???

It's why I have little respect for these sordid partisan fights.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 2:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Dec. 13 2012, 9:57 pm)
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a very effective Secretary of State, arguably one of the best we've had.

That is a very questionable statement.  Look at his record on Vietman.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 2:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 11:00 am)
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Hypocrisy much -- ye who decry -- while conveniently ignoring the same done by your fav party?  ???

It's why I have little respect for these sordid partisan fights.

Unsubstantiated posturing much?

Prove it?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 14 2012, 11:54 am)
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(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 11:00 am)
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Hypocrisy much -- ye who decry -- while conveniently ignoring the same done by your fav party?  ???

It's why I have little respect for these sordid partisan fights.

Unsubstantiated posturing much?

Prove it?

Willfully blind much?  Ask yourself the question -- the last sentence on my post #14.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:45 pm)
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(Land Rover @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:18 pm)
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(KenV @ Dec. 13 2012, 10:12 pm)
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(wwwest @ Dec. 13 2012, 9:48 pm)
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I suspect that the real goal here is to get Kerry out of the Senate.  

Really?!  To what end?  Is there a scintilla of doubt that Kerry will be replaced by another liberal democrat?  So what's the point of getting him out of the Senate?

The concern is that Brown will run again and given his existing name recognition in the state he may have a good chance of winning.

So getting rid of Kerry will improve Brown's chances of getting back into the Senate?  He'll run against a no name instead of a well established name like Kerry?  And he'll be running in an off cycle year where republicans typically do a little better?

That's one of the thoughts I've read on it. Not sure I buy it, but Brown got there in the first place under a similar set of circumstances.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 3:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 12:37 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 14 2012, 11:54 am)
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(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 11:00 am)
QUOTE
Hypocrisy much -- ye who decry -- while conveniently ignoring the same done by your fav party?  ???

It's why I have little respect for these sordid partisan fights.

Unsubstantiated posturing much?

Prove it?

Blind much?  Ask yourself the question -- the last sentence on my post #14.

Translation: Why NO I can't prove my vast over reaching statement so I'll just dodge. Careful, most soapboxes look awfully tippy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 3:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

HSF:

Both sides have used similar tactics for so long... I am NOT going to feed you examples -- not even to humor you.  You may as well ask someone to prove that the sky is blue.

So, be as willfully blind as you like.  Just reinforces the current reality that folks prefer pointing fingers at others than solving any real issues.  No skin off my back.    :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 12:56 pm)
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HSF:

Both sides have used similar tactics for so long... I am NOT going to feed you examples -- not even to humor you.  You may as well ask someone to prove that the sky is blue.

So, be as willfully blind as you like.  Just reinforces the current reality that folks prefer pointing fingers at others than solving any real issues.  No skin off my back.   :;):

I was asking you to back up your statement implicating the people on this forum. Not for a random political history lesson as you well know.

That you can't is obvious. And not actually a surprise.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 4:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And you are asking me to point out something that is so patently obvious that it is insulting.

Yeah, go ahead, say it, the Democratic Party has NEVER EVER killed Republican nominations in committee -- or filibustered on the floor. ???

And now, the other side is 'cowardly'?  Maybe, but whatever retarded emotions you hurl at the other side applies absolutely to your own.   :;):

When 'half the country' turns a blind eye to the faults of one party or the other -- instead of all of us holding our politicians accountable regardless of party affiliation -- then we are doomed to have the 'cowardly', dysfunctional government that we have.  Shame.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 4:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Dec. 14 2012, 1:02 pm)
QUOTE
And you are asking me to point out something that is so patently obvious that it is insulting.
.....

"obvious"?

Then it should be SO easy to actually substantiate your statement right? Find the posts that back you up. Of mine or whomever.

Or not.

"retarded emotions you..."? ? ?

A little emotional eh?? What ever would "the world" say?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 14 2012, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

You left out this part.

QUOTE
Yeah, go ahead, say it, the Democratic Party has NEVER EVER killed Republican nominations in committee -- or filibustered on the floor.


And so it bears repeating, "When 'half the country' turns a blind eye to the faults of one party or the other -- instead of all of us holding our politicians accountable regardless of party affiliation -- then we are doomed to have the 'cowardly', dysfunctional government that we have.  Shame.".


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