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Topic: 12 Billion reason to never buy GM< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 1:26 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://www.usnews.com/news....-shares

So, what is the over/under on the next GM bankruptcy? Iím betting 6 years, but Iím not sure that our money will last that long.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 1:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Since the government will be completely out of G.M. rather shortly per your own story "our money" isn't involved.
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markinOhio Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 1:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

12 Billion loss = "our" money
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 1:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Should have let them go under huh Mark. Ohio would have been better off for sure.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 1:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Dec. 19 2012, 10:39 am)
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12 Billion loss = "our" money

:D

" our money will last that long." ? ? Meant what then given that TARP money was expended in the past?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 3:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just like AIG, GM may end up making money for the taxpayers.  They have huge profits and the stock price will be rising as their sales in China skyrocket.

But, even if we lose money by a few billion, the bailout was a huge success, keeping more than 1 million Americans employed in high paying middle class jobs.

If only every effort at creating/saving jobs could be so successful at such a modest price.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 5:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You don't think Mark is going to be able to admit that do you?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 5:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Frankly, the bail out of GM ended my love affair with their cars.

I'll never buy another one.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 9:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'll never buy another one.

Good!  Maybe that means I can get my new one a few dollars cheaper.

Probably not, but I like the thought.  I will be sure to mention your boycott when bargaining of the final price.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 10:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Dec. 19 2012, 2:55 pm)
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Frankly, the bail out of GM ended my love affair with their cars.

I'll never buy another one.

And did you stop voting for Republicans?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 19 2012, 10:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Dec. 19 2012, 5:55 pm)
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Frankly, the bail out of GM ended my love affair with their cars.

I'll never buy another one.

I'm sure the Americans who work there are sad to lose your business. Toyota seems to be the choice of. Last republicans I come across these days. Having said that the Detroit-loving Mitt Romney apparently picked up an Audi Q7 after the election was lost.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 20 2012, 8:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Right now I'm driving a nissan built in Syrmna TN.

We have a new Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, maybe I'll look at one of those.....


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 20 2012, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Glad to see that you are getting behind the global economy!  All cars are built with parts from around the globe now, and it will become moreso.  Seems like sticking to the ones where most of the share are owned by Americans would be a good short term strategy, but in the long run, it makes no difference.

Either we have the education, the technology and the creativity to keep up with the competitors, or we fall behind.  

Encouraging the developing countries to become richer, with strong middle classes is our best hope for the future.  China and India are critical, and they are making great strides.  Africa, not so much, but it still has a chance if democratic values can get a foothold.

How are we doing on that??


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 20 2012, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What's wrong with supporting the ones that are supporting the local community?

Bubba needs a pay check too.....


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 20 2012, 3:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Absolutely nothing wrong with it, I just prefer the companies that have the oldest and deepest ties to the US.  

With Nissan there is a local pay check, which is very good, but not much else.

But there is nothing wrong with it, and if they make a better, more reliable and less expensive car than the competitive GM model, I will buy Nissan too.

I always spend a lot time on research and test drives before buying a new vehicle.


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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 9:48 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 19 2012, 1:35 pm)
QUOTE
Since the government will be completely out of G.M. rather shortly per your own story "our money" isn't involved.

Not sure where it was calculated at "only" a 12 billion dollar loss.  Here's what I was able to glean from this article...

$50 billion bailout for 500 million shares at $100/ea.

GM made $16 billion in profits last 3 years; average of $5.33 billion/year.  Did not mention the roughly two years prior to that.

GM is to buy back $5.5 billion for 200 million shares at $27.50/ea. A savings of $72.50 per share off the original cash infusion.

300 million shares remaining; assuming sold at the same price the next 12 to 18 months, thatís worth $8.25 billion.

So, for a $36.25 billion loss on our investment, we taxpayers subsidized 1 million jobs for $36,250/ea.  

Broken out over 5 years since the bailout, thatís $7,250 LOST per GM employee per year.

I'm glad to hear that "our money" isn't involved.  :D  :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 11:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I decided back when they started putting tracking devices, OnStar, on all Goverment Motors vehicles to never own one of them again.  Plus they started making crap in the late 70s early 80s so that helps the decision.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 12:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AggieHiker92 @ Dec. 21 2012, 9:48 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 19 2012, 1:35 pm)
QUOTE
Since the government will be completely out of G.M. rather shortly per your own story "our money" isn't involved.

Not sure where it was calculated at "only" a 12 billion dollar loss. †Here's what I was able to glean from this article...

$50 billion bailout for 500 million shares at $100/ea.

GM made $16 billion in profits last 3 years; average of $5.33 billion/year. †Did not mention the roughly two years prior to that.

GM is to buy back $5.5 billion for 200 million shares at $27.50/ea. A savings of $72.50 per share off the original cash infusion.

300 million shares remaining; assuming sold at the same price the next 12 to 18 months, thatís worth $8.25 billion.

So, for a $36.25 billion loss on our investment, we taxpayers subsidized 1 million jobs for $36,250/ea. †

Broken out over 5 years since the bailout, thatís $7,250 LOST per GM employee per year.

I'm glad to hear that "our money" isn't involved. †:D:D

Makes you want to let the government invest for you doesn't it?

They sure know how to pick the losers.....

Have they picked a winner in the energy sector?

Never mind....it's "other peoples money" anyway.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 1:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AggieHiker92 @ Dec. 21 2012, 6:48 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 19 2012, 1:35 pm)
QUOTE
Since the government will be completely out of G.M. rather shortly per your own story "our money" isn't involved.

Not sure where it was calculated at "only" a 12 billion dollar loss. †Here's what I was able to glean from this article...
....
I'm glad to hear that "our money" isn't involved. †:D:D
So specifically ask M?, His title after all. (but that is the upper limit of an estimate from http://www.usnews.com/news....bailout "So unless there's an unexpected surge in GM stock, the net cost of the GM bailout to taxpayers will be around $10 billion to $12 billion."

So you agree that when those shares are sold some slogan about "our money will last that long." is rhetorical at best and inaccurate per the facts?
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 2:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Republicans can never understand a public investment which results in good for the country, but fails to line the pockets of the Republicans.

They still cry and whine about the WPA and the CCC which were vital in rescuing the country and a whole generation of young men who would otherwise have been without any employment until WWII started.

We still use and enjoy the fruits of their labors everyday in our National Parks, National Forests, rural highways, bridges and trails in the hinterland.

But it was a terrible investment according to the Republicans.  Millionaires made almost nothing from it.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 21 2012, 2:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

But you know I may be coming around to Romney's view. The problem with the federal government is that it doesn't think and act enough like a business: any business with expenses exceeding income would seek to raise income. So what the federal government has to do is raise the "rent" United States residents pay in. Taxes as rent and the federal government as the "business" that is responsible for the maintenance.

To use a Romney-esque phrase: "let the Harvest begin!".
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 24 2012, 1:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(gunslinger @ Dec. 20 2012, 8:46 am)
QUOTE
Right now I'm driving a nissan built in Syrmna TN.

Me too, but I have nothing against GM. †GM's user friendly TPMS is far superior to any system offered by other companies. †I wish I had it in my Nissan.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 24 2012, 8:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Dec. 19 2012, 3:09 pm)
QUOTE
Just like AIG, GM may end up making money for the taxpayers. †They have huge profits and the stock price will be rising as their sales in China skyrocket.

But, even if we lose money by a few billion, the bailout was a huge success, keeping more than 1 million Americans employed in high paying middle class jobs.

If only every effort at creating/saving jobs could be so successful at such a modest price.

I agree that the bailout was necessary to preserve the ecosystem of GM and other automotive jobs in the US.

But if you think GM's stock price is going to rise to the point where the government can break even on the investment, you need to re-examine your math.

The price of the remaining 300M shares would need to hit $70 for the government to break even. The current price is around $28.

Thus far the Treasury has recouped $28.6B of its $49.5B stake in GM.


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