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Marmotstew 
Group: Members
Posts: 8697
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 3:05 pm |
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Yes but guns actually save millions of lives each year by being used for self defense. How many cars have you used in self defense? Maybe if you had Knight Rider or the Mystery Machine.
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I'd rather be Facebooking watching videos of cats licking themselves
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BackpackHNTR
Group: Members
Posts: 459
Joined: Apr. 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 3:30 pm |
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That info was for 2009, and just the first 6 months of the year. Also just showed 10 states that outpaced auto deaths. Some states have very little in auto deaths. Better roads, less congestion etc. Total BS thread.
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Pathfinder1
Group: Members
Posts: 658
Joined: Apr. 2011
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Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 4:22 pm |
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Hi...
Interesting, but statistically irrelevent.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4800
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 7:05 pm |
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That includes all gun deaths; suicides, "accidents" and lawfully justified shootings.
What would be a better comparison would be only unlawful/illegal deaths by gun.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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BillBab
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2008
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Posted on: Dec. 26 2012, 7:42 pm |
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And they did it all without banning cars
Perhaps they took a more scientific approach to the problem
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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| Post Number: 8
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4059
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 1:30 pm |
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And they did it all without banning cars
Perhaps they took a more scientific approach to the problem
And that is exactly what sensible Americans who love guns and hunting want to do with guns!! Get it??
Banning semi automatics of all kinds, and banning high capacity magazines, and banning ammo designed only for killing people, is not banning guns.
It is the only way we will be able to save sensible, useful guns for the general public.
What are you willing to do to help us with the science of accomplishing the goal of making guns more safe in the hands of a mass killer??
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BackpackHNTR
Group: Members
Posts: 459
Joined: Apr. 2009
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 6:21 pm |
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(hbfa @ Dec. 27 2012, 4:10 pm)
QUOTE
(wwwest @ Dec. 27 2012, 10:30 am)
QUOTE What are you willing to do to help us with the science of accomplishing the goal of making guns more safe in the hands of a mass killer?? Good question. So far, all I've heard is NO!
Now you've got it Watson.
No is what is will be. We will have semi auto's just as we always have. Some form of compliance might be worked out, but in the end. We will have them.
Sorry wwwest that's just the way it is.
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| Post Number: 11
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wwwest
Group: Members
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Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 6:54 pm |
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Sorry wwwest that's just the way it is. The way it was.
The times they are a changn'
Stonewall long enough and stubbornly enough and you will end up with a much worse situtation in the end.
If you force the general public to the point of desperation they will pass a constitutional amendment, and really ban guns.
Not what I want, not what most sensible people want, but if we have to do that for self preservation, that is what will happen.
What is smoking down to, about 20% of the people? And the expense is astronomically higher than it had to be if sensible steps were taken before the legal hammer came down.
Gun owners, and hunters, are going to become a smaller, and smaller minority in this country, and they need to start taking sensible, logical steps to preserve their right to a gun.
When they are small enough, the guns will simply be gone for good.
Did you pay attention to the demographics in the November election?
The changes do not bode well for the gun nuts, but it is not easy to persuade the gun nuts of the simple mathematical facts.
This is a democracy, and fringe minoritys don't get much of a say in what is legal, or even what is constitutional.
Remember when slavery was both legal and constitutional in this country?
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charadeur
Group: Members
Posts: 162
Joined: Mar. 2011
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 7:11 pm |
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Well tobacco kills 400,000 people a year. If you really cared about saving lives that is where you would look. And yes second hand smoke kills many of those people so it is not just people hurting themselves. Every year asthma kills about 3300 people in the use. Children who live in a house with smokers are over twice as likely to have asthma and their asthma is more severe. Where is the outrage over tobacco as that is a much larger problem than firearms?
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| Post Number: 13
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4059
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 7:48 pm |
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We don't need outrage, we need sensible solutions that help with the problem.
Just as we have done with tobacco and automobiles. Tobacco is much safer to use, and many millions fewer of Americans now use tobacco. Autos are now much safer and less deadly.
Exactly the king of steps we need to take with guns.
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geophagous
Group: Members
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Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 8:56 pm |
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Heard a report that laid out what is happening with gun ownership in the US.
Same as the election demographics. Gun companies are now forced to market to those who already have guns. The market for new first time owners is VERY small and shrinking rapidly.
Blame is more people are moving to the cities and the traditional hunters are a dying breed as there is less and less land around for them to hunt on.
Point of the story was demographically the gun lobby is going down hill, slowly, but still on the decline. They are simply not finding new customers and the current customers are dying out. They have multiple guns per owner.
Long term there will be fewer and fewer gun owners, while the number of guns might not go down very much, as those fewer and fewer owners will be marketed to very aggressively to buy more and more guns.
Basically as alluded to earlier, gun owners better get on board or in 30-40 years they will be a VERY small population and get nothing, as has happened with tobacco.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4800
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 9:34 pm |
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QUOTE New Jersey gun sellers have been doing a brisk business over the past few years, reflecting a larger national trend of increased firearm ownership.
And it doesn't look like gun sales are slowing down any time soon. In June 2012, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System saw a 25 percent increase over June 2011.
More and more Americans are opting to exercise their Second Amendment rights, driving up domestic firearms sales and interest in shooting sports, which is good news for manufacturers and dealers.
Driving these record numbers are thousands of first-time purchasers
QUOTE According to figures released on Sept. 6, gunmaker Smith and Wesson announced strong fiscal first quarter 2013 sales, with net sales of $136 million, up 48.3 percent year-over-year.
Smith and Wesson expects another $130 to $135 million in sales for the second quarter of 2013 as well, which would represent a year-over-year increase of 40 percent.
Sturm, Ruger and Company, another American firearms manufacturer, is also posting record sales figures.
"Our earnings increased 63 percent from the second quarter of 2011," Ruger CEO Michael O. Fifer said in an August release. According to Fifer, the strong growth in profits was due in large part to a 50 percent increase in sales in the second quarter of 2012.
In fact, the demand for firearms is so high that manufacturers are having trouble keeping up. In March, Ruger announced that it was going to temporarily suspend the acceptance of new orders after independent wholesale distributors placed orders for more than a million firearms.
QUOTE But many who buy a gun for the first time are also finding an enthusiasm for hunting and other shooting sports.
"There is a lot of overlap in the reasons people have for buying a gun," Jocelyn Phillips explained. "Some people like the security of home defense; others want something they can target shoot with. Many of our customers are new hunters looking for shotguns.
"We are seeing a resurgence in hunting that is amazing."
http://www.nj.com/cumberl....ir.html
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 16
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4059
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 9:57 pm |
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Remember how you did not believe what was happening in the election?
Just keep your heads in the sand, and your guns will truly be gone one of these days.
Why is this soooo hard to understand for so many gun nuts???
It's just simple math, white people are going to be in the minority, and gun owners are going to be a much smaller minority, and then it is game over.
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geophagous
Group: Members
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 10:36 pm |
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hmmm
Seems to be a bit of a difference in what we are seeing. Here is a long running poll asking people if they have a gun in the house. Does not support what was said above about RECORD high gun ownership rates!
Gun decline
And from Nate Silver who is pretty good with numbers, even if those on one side of the aisle HATE him for being right so dang much. It appears we see a decline in gun ownership that is broken out better than the first link.
In depth breakdown of gun owners
So my question is how to reconcile these 2 very different views?
It would appear that while gun SALES may be very high with manufacturers doing very well, it is because they are selling to the same people over and over.
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| Post Number: 18
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4059
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 27 2012, 11:34 pm |
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To be meaningful it needs to show gun owners as a percentage of the total population.
Population is growing significantly, but new gun ownership is lagging well behind that rate.
Plus, look at the percentage of under 30 people are buying guns.
Check out the polls:
"White voters were substantially more likely to own guns than Hispanics or blacks. But white Republicans were more likely to own guns than white Democrats.
And based on demographic inertia, the differences seem likely to grow over time.
About 35 percent of Democratic voters age 65 and older reported having a gun in their home, against about 25 percent of those ages 18 to 29. But gun ownership rates bore little relationship to age among Republican voters, and were constant at about 55 percent among all age groups. That might suggest that gun ownership will continue to decline among Democrats while holding steady among Republicans, further increasing the partisan gap."
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012....s-sharp
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4800
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 9:02 am |
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QUOTE The poll, conducted Oct. 13-16 (2005), finds that 4 in 10 Americans report they have a gun in their homes, including 30% who say they personally own a gun and 12% who say another member of their household owns it. These results show essentially no change since this question was last asked in 2000. At that time, 27% of Americans said they personally owned a gun and 14% said another household member owned one.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/Gun-Ownership-Use-America.aspx
QUOTE A 2011 Gallup poll estimates that 47 percent of US households own a gun.
QUOTE (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
© Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)
Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
Yes, that is 80 million.
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
© The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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geophagous
Group: Members
Posts: 1753
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 11:17 am |
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You should correct that to say it has ALREADY happened.
Literal cut and paste of crap...
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