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Land Rover 
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 6:21 pm |
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Not sure on what planet you need to be on to see this as anything more than a prime example of how the legal gun trade feeds the number of illegal guns in the hands of criminals and the insane. We need tighter gun control laws now!
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| Post Number: 3
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wwwest
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Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 7:26 pm |
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+1
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| Post Number: 4
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nogods
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 7:47 pm |
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(Land Rover @ Dec. 28 2012, 6:21 pm)
QUOTE Not sure on what planet you need to be on to see this as anything more than a prime example of how the legal gun trade feeds the number of illegal guns in the hands of criminals and the insane. We need tighter gun control laws now!
The laughable part is your belief that laws against firearms are going to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals.
What part of "they don't obey the law now" don't you understand?
Hey, make a law and they'll obey it. Stop legal production of an item and the criminals won't be able to obtain it.
Perhaps you are unaware of how poorly such nonsense works with drugs and how poorly it worked with alcohol.
We can't keep hoards of illegal immigrants from crossing our borders but you think we'll be able to keep banned weapons off the streets.
The illegal trade in banned wildlife is a multi-billion dollar industry despite the fact that:
QUOTE the The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has developed the most advanced and robust wildlife law enforcement program in the world. Stationing inspectors at ports across the country and providing enforcement training around the world, the United States is an international leader in combatting wildlife crime.
http://www.fws.gov/interna....de.html
I'm wrong, your ignorance isn't laughable, it is sad.
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| Post Number: 5
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wwwest
Group: Members
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Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 7:53 pm |
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Exactly why we need to have all guns registered and licensed, plus fitted with smart gun technology limiting their use to the licensed owner.
We have a half billion cars and manage to keep them located, taxed and licensed. This is not really that tough a job.
Except we have to get behind and get started.
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| Post Number: 6
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nogods
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 8:06 pm |
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(wwwest @ Dec. 28 2012, 7:53 pm)
QUOTE Exactly why we need to have all guns registered and licensed, plus fitted with smart gun technology limiting their use to the licensed owner.
We have a half billion cars and manage to keep them located, taxed and licensed. This is not really that tough a job.
Except we have to get behind and get started.
OK - lets do what you suggest. As soon as we also get behind an end to drunken driving with the required installation of ingnition locks in all cars.
QUOTE The NTSB also strongly endorsed the continued development of a passive alcohol-detection technology. The Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety (DADSS) would prevent alcohol-impaired individuals from operating their vehicles by detecting alcohol in the driver's system through breath- and touch-based sensors.
"Technology is the game changer in reducing alcohol-related crashes on our nation's roadways," Hersman said. "Achieving zero alcohol-impaired driving-related deaths is possible only if society is willing to separate the impaired driver from the driving task."
I can understand why the car industry would resist such measures for economic reasons, but why would the restaurant and alcohol industry be against keeping drunks from driving?
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| Post Number: 7
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Land Rover
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 8:36 pm |
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No matter how many times you bring up cars it doesn't make your comparison a valid one.
At a fundamental level cars are meant to provide transportation. Misuse of them causes deaths.
Guns are meant, from their earliest inception, to kill. When someone uses them as intended they kill. They are fundamentally deadly at their basic level.
All the BS about target shooting is basically a derivative of training to be able to kill things effectively.
Now, you can argue that hunting an self-defense is a legitimate form of killing, but it is killing nevertheless. I'd even agree with you that as things exist in America that they are necessary, and I'd likely agree with you.
But you inability to identify or even recognize the harm at having so many guns out there does is disturbing. Your love of them seems to be to the point of obsession, and you seem unable to identify the issues at hand here without descending into some sort of persecuted victims status about having all your guns taken away.
Now, trigger locks. Once you are able to come to terms with the fact that guns are designed purely to kill we can maybe stop pretending they are like cars. Once you deal with that fact we can come up with solutions that would offer little by way of inconvenience to you and your buds down the gun range and make it slightly more difficult for psychopaths like those mentioned here to get hold of.
The bottom line is that guns are meant to kill. If they don't then they are not very good guns. The bushmaster and guns like it seem to have the ability to kill large numbers of innocents in short periods of time and so setting all the little distractions about what is an assault weapon aside, we need to get better control of who gets access to them.
Stop throwing the tantrum and deal with the fact that we had a lot of dead kids because of the ease of availability of this weapon to a psychopath.
Your wacko solutions simply involves putting more guns out there putting even more of the weapons in the hands of the sick and disturbed.
You represent the center of the problem here Nogods - no amount of excuses and distractions and comparisons to cars is going to change that.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 10:14 pm |
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"Disarming innocent people does not protect innocent people"
R. Lee Ermey
There are laws in some places stating that anyone making a straw purchase can be charged and tried for crimes committed with those guns.
Enforce that law for these crimes.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 9
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Land Rover
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Posted on: Dec. 28 2012, 10:35 pm |
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So are you disarmed with any number of handguns, hunting rifles and handguns and as much ammo as you can fit in your home?
If not then perhaps you can start dealing with what is actually being said rather than all this BS about disarming people.
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BillBab
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 9:20 am |
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What these guys did was already illegal....how would making it more illegal help exactly???
I agree that the straw purchaser should be tried as an accomplice to mass murder
One thing all law abiding gun owners agree with is that people that commit violent crimes with guns should be severely punished
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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theosus
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 9:49 am |
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I don't know what state it was in or their laws. Here in south carolina we have a magazine called "carolina trader". I can look through pages of gun ads right now, call up a person, meet them wherever they want, and buy a gun from them for cash. If I go to wal-mart I have to fill out forms, but if I call billy joe who's unloading his deceased father's gun stash so he can make the rent this month, I can buy whatever he has with NO paperwork at all. Smart sellers make the person fill out a typed "bill of sale", so if the gun is used in a crime, you can show the cops "hey I sold it to steve", but there's no requirements for private citizens to do background checks.
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The flamethrower is proof positive that sometime, somewhere, someone once said, "You, know, I'd really like to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done."
My Blog
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double cabin
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:25 am |
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Statistics clearly and irrefutably demonstrate that communities with stricter gun laws far more often than not endure less gun violence than communities with less fettered access to firearms. You can't deny that reality however much you try to NG.
For those that don't think stricter, enforced gun laws with greater penalties for "straw" purchasers, those that do not secure their guns properly, etc., will help I have one simple question: Do you have any idea whatsoever what a syllogism is? We're lead to believe you don't since you're in denial of irrefutable facts.
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We have nothing to fear but an industry of fear...and man skirts.
http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=129511480442251
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| Post Number: 16
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Land Rover
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:34 am |
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Well the simple fact here is that there is often an urban rural divide on these laws meaning you are comparing apples and oranges when trying to say that guns make you safer.
You have to compare like with like.
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| Post Number: 17
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HighGravity
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:46 am |
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The gun logic on firearm restriction is akin to saying that murder should not be outlawed since people commit murder anyway.
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| Post Number: 18
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wwwest
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 11:58 am |
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+1
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HighGravity
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 1:01 pm |
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Doesn't seem to suggest that at all, unless you cherry pick which states you want to focus on. Oh that's right, you did.
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| Post Number: 23
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wwwest
Group: Members
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Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 3:29 pm |
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Englands violent crime rate is higher than in the US
What is the murder rate in Britain?? How does the total murders in Britain last year compare to the total murders in the US?
How do gun deaths in the US compare to gun deaths in the UK??
I guess you can try, but even you can't make some statistics lie.
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High_Sierra_Fan
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 5:32 pm |
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Hopefully shadow purchasers will be prosecuted. Tried and when properly convicted sentenced to prison time commensurate with the crimes commited using the weapons they purchased.
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| Post Number: 26
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| Post Number: 27
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Three
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 6:50 pm |
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oops. double post
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| Post Number: 28
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Land Rover
Group: Members
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Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 6:57 pm |
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Thing is that with the matrix of laws, as we have been through before three, its incredibly easy to get guns anywhere in the us, so the variable record is not access to guns.
For restrictions to work they need to be applied universally across the US. DC, for example. You can go to va, literally a walk across a bridge over the Potomac, and get the guns you like, or at least know a source over there, and get the guns you like.
Its the vast amount of guns out there in the nation that create the illegal gun problem. You argue against any controls - as does the NRA, so you have created the problem. The selfish, short- sighted little world of the American gun enthusiast.
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| Post Number: 29
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Land Rover
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Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 6:57 pm |
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And we also now have the fact that 40% of gun sales are off the books.
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| Post Number: 30
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