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Topic: NRA may try to stop Tucson's buyback program, And, how does this make sense?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 4:24 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

NRA may fight gun buyback in Tucson
Lobbyist says law prohibits police from destroying any they collect.
14 hours ago  •  Darren DaRonco Arizona Daily Star


It's a good way to take guns nobody wants anymore out of circulation, he says.

However, an NRA lobbyist said Arizona law renders any gun buyback meaningless since the Police Department would be required to return or resell them.

Todd Rathner, a member of the NRA's national board of directors, said the law was changed earlier this year because police departments were destroying firearms.



Source.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Do they come any lower than the NRA??
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's not trying to stop the buyback as you state, it's quoting AZ law that bought-back weapons cannot be destroyed.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 7:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wonder why any state legislature would pass such a law? Seems ignorant to me.  Do we care that much for hammers?  I keep hearing guns are just tools.  I think this just shows how attached some folks are to their artificial courage / manhood.

Seems it is time to change the law.  Will Az step up, or will they buckle to the NRA zealots?


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

Gun buy back programs are generally useless.  Buffalo has done it for years.  They pay for guns that people have stolen to cash in on the buyback program,  or guns so useless they pose no danger.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 10:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Does the NRA ever make sense?

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 29 2012, 11:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:11 pm)
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Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

If it is a stolen gun, it needs to be destroyed and the owner needs their right to own revoked.  Having a gun stolen means you did not have it locked up in a safe, thus allowing a gun to become property of a criminal.  If it was taken from the owner while they had it on their person, it needs to be destroyed and they need to wear a dumbass sign for a month.  

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 7:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:11 pm)
QUOTE
Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

If it is a stolen gun, it needs to be destroyed and the owner needs their right to own revoked.  Having a gun stolen means you did not have it locked up in a safe, thus allowing a gun to become property of a criminal.  If it was taken from the owner while they had it on their person, it needs to be destroyed and they need to wear a dumbass sign for a month.  

So, the same should be true of money stolen from a bank?

Crooks smash into Howard Beach bank vault, make off with $400G

I don't know of any safe, be it for guns, jewelry, money or any thing else that can't be broke into.

Think it through before you post.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 8:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I once met a guy who literally had a whole safe full of guns stolen. Went on vacation and discovered when he got back his house had been burgled, including the entire 3000# gun safe.

Was he careless in storing his guns?


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 10:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 7:59 am)
QUOTE

(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:11 pm)
QUOTE
Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

If it is a stolen gun, it needs to be destroyed and the owner needs their right to own revoked.  Having a gun stolen means you did not have it locked up in a safe, thus allowing a gun to become property of a criminal.  If it was taken from the owner while they had it on their person, it needs to be destroyed and they need to wear a dumbass sign for a month.  

So, the same should be true of money stolen from a bank?

Crooks smash into Howard Beach bank vault, make off with $400G

I don't know of any safe, be it for guns, jewelry, money or any thing else that can't be broke into.

Think it through before you post.

What if your car is stolen?

And the thief runs over some kids in a crosswalk while getting away?

Are you liable?

Should you EVER be able to own another car?

No logic here :laugh:

Gun buybacks are a great way to make money....you can get cash for guns that do not even work.

The LA police were just crowing about taking in some rocket launchers in their buyback.....some inert rocket tubes you could buy online for less than $50 netted $200 from the police

Priceless :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 10:37 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Stolen guns should be returned to their owner, just like any other stolen property.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I would hazard to guess that guns stolen while in a safe are few and far between.  So, Yes, I would also destroy all stolen guns, unless they can be positively identified as to the owner and that they were stolen from a safe.

I do think before I post, usually put some time into my phrasing of the thoughts, and on this matter those thoughts have evolved over several decades.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 12:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Dec. 30 2012, 10:34 am)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 7:59 am)
QUOTE

(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:11 pm)
QUOTE
Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

If it is a stolen gun, it needs to be destroyed and the owner needs their right to own revoked.  Having a gun stolen means you did not have it locked up in a safe, thus allowing a gun to become property of a criminal.  If it was taken from the owner while they had it on their person, it needs to be destroyed and they need to wear a dumbass sign for a month.  

So, the same should be true of money stolen from a bank?

Crooks smash into Howard Beach bank vault, make off with $400G

I don't know of any safe, be it for guns, jewelry, money or any thing else that can't be broke into.

Think it through before you post.

What if your car is stolen?

And the thief runs over some kids in a crosswalk while getting away?

Are you liable?

Should you EVER be able to own another car?

No logic here :laugh:

Gun buybacks are a great way to make money....you can get cash for guns that do not even work.

The LA police were just crowing about taking in some rocket launchers in their buyback.....some inert rocket tubes you could buy online for less than $50 netted $200 from the police

Priceless :;):

When some moron starts comparing firearms to vehicles, it's a good sign they aren't going to say anything logical on any topic.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 12:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Altogether now...

Every gun is sacred.
Every gun is great.
If a gun is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 12:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm a gun owner.  The NRA helped make my ownership possible.

It's ironic that the biggest threat to my continued ownership is possibly the no-restrictions-of-any-kind position of the NRA....causing the general public (and politicians) to increasingly consider them as fringe fanatics to be ignored in a national  debate.

I think there is a proper role for the NRA.

But mention NRA, and more and more folk are rolling their eyes.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 1:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Dec. 30 2012, 12:54 pm)
QUOTE
I'm a gun owner.  The NRA helped make my ownership possible.

It's ironic that the biggest threat to my continued ownership is possibly the no-restrictions-of-any-kind position of the NRA....causing the general public (and politicians) to increasingly consider them as fringe fanatics to be ignored in a national  debate.

I think there is a proper role for the NRA.

But mention NRA, and more and more folk are rolling their eyes.

There was a time when the NRA was an advocate for hunters and gun safety. When I went through the hunter safety course decades ago, that's what it was about. But since the 90's it's been a very different organization in large part due to LaPierre's influence.  It's time for them to change their name to National Handgun and Assault Weapon Association since that seems to be more of their focus these days.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 1:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Dec. 30 2012, 12:14 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Dec. 30 2012, 10:34 am)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 7:59 am)
QUOTE

(ol-zeke @ Dec. 29 2012, 11:20 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Dec. 29 2012, 7:11 pm)
QUOTE
Part of the reason for the law is to prevent the government from destroying property that was stolen from a citizen.

If it is a stolen gun, it needs to be destroyed and the owner needs their right to own revoked.  Having a gun stolen means you did not have it locked up in a safe, thus allowing a gun to become property of a criminal.  If it was taken from the owner while they had it on their person, it needs to be destroyed and they need to wear a dumbass sign for a month.  

So, the same should be true of money stolen from a bank?

Crooks smash into Howard Beach bank vault, make off with $400G

I don't know of any safe, be it for guns, jewelry, money or any thing else that can't be broke into.

Think it through before you post.

What if your car is stolen?

And the thief runs over some kids in a crosswalk while getting away?

Are you liable?

Should you EVER be able to own another car?

No logic here :laugh:

Gun buybacks are a great way to make money....you can get cash for guns that do not even work.

The LA police were just crowing about taking in some rocket launchers in their buyback.....some inert rocket tubes you could buy online for less than $50 netted $200 from the police

Priceless :;):

When some moron starts comparing firearms to vehicles, it's a good sign they aren't going to say anything logical on any topic.

Once again, we see an example of the lack of intellectually ability to perceive an analogy of reason, like the intellectually challenged person who responding to a assertion that planting an orange to try to grow a tree with dollar bills for leaves will have the same result as planting an apple for the same reason, smugly states "there you go again, comparing apples with oranges..."
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 1:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:05 pm)
QUOTE
Once again, we see an example of the lack of intellectually ability to perceive an analogy of reason, like the intellectually challenged person who responding to a assertion that planting an orange to try to grow a tree with dollar bills for leaves will have the same result as planting an apple for the same reason, smugly states "there you go again, comparing apples with oranges..."

You resort to false analogies because the argument, when applied to the actual topic, falls flat. Guns do not equal automobiles in any logical way.

Stay out of the courtroom with your kind of "logic."
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 1:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I was a happy, if somewhat ignorant, member of NRA in the mid 60's, right after getting out of the Navy, and spending a lot time hunting and fishing in my time off from school.

By the early 70's I ended my membership, and parted ways with the NRA when they began to show their political teeth, and now I am a dedicated opponent of the NRA, seeing them as one of the most pernicious, anti-social political influence groups in our great nation.

Our freedoms are being threatened by the stupidity of NRA leadership and policies, mostly the result of being advocates for the arms manufacturers.

Ike's warning about the military/industrial complex subverting our political system goes double against the NRA, IMO.


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

EVERYONE:
Every gun is sacred.
Every gun is good.
Every gun is needed
In your neighborhood.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 5:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Dec. 30 2012, 11:54 am)
QUOTE
It's ironic that the biggest threat to my continued ownership is possibly the no-restrictions-of-any-kind position of the NRA....causing the general public (and politicians) to increasingly consider them as fringe fanatics to be ignored in a national  debate.

I think there is a proper role for the NRA.
You certainly have nailed the crux of the problem.

Absolutely true that there's a role the NRA could play here, but they seem to feel that doing so would be detrimental to their purpose, though that purpose seems to have changed radically in the last hundred or so years. The organization, based on the little I can gather from reading, was founded to advocate for firearm training and safety in the face of obvious failings in both these areas in the U.S., but has evolved to an advocacy that, despite any remaining good intentions and actions with current members, does exactly the opposite for the public at large, exposing the public to the ravages of those ill-equipped mentally and with the most dangerous inclinations as regards firearms: the deranged, the mentally and psychologically immature and the psychotic/psychopathic.

I've said it before here on this forum, and I'll say it again: The NRA could play an absolutely instrumental and vital role in the control and regulation of owners of firearms, using their expertise in firearm safety programs to assure that those who do obtain firearms are fully qualified to use them, both in terms of skills and in terms of personal qualifications.

But the NRA refuses to take that particular tact, instead fighting indiscriminately for the right of every soul in the country to possess weapons and use them to "fight evil" (and even their own government), regardless of their personal qualifications. Clearly, this isn't the line the NRA wants to associate with themselves, but practically, it's the end result of their political actions, and, much more importantly, the result of absolute and total lack of responsibility for those actions by the NRA.

The NRA and the government need to come to some kind of agreement, because, without that, any legislation on firearm control is not likely to succeed. I personally think that's not any more likely than the GOP honestly compromising on their opposition to taxation, but let's hope I'm completely wrong. Perhaps the less rabid of the NRA's members can exert some rational force on their organization.
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(HighGravity @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:11 pm)
QUOTE
Guns do not equal automobiles in any logical way.

And why is that?

Because most people do not have an unreasonable fear of automobiles.

They can stand there looking at a very fast car and not expect it to suddenly start up and run over them.

But set a handgun on the table in front of them and whole bunches will start screaming for their mother

Weird

But back to your inability to grasp basic logic

How is it somehow worse to allow one piece of personal property to be stolen and used in a violent crime than some other inanimate object?

If you cannot expand your mind to allow cars then how about a knife....big carving knife that someone steals from you and uses to stab some litle old lady who doesn;t have a gun to defend herself

Hint: Because guns are scary isn't good enough

It may be all that you have but it does not pass the logic test


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 5:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:24 pm)
QUOTE
I was a happy, if somewhat ignorant, member of NRA in the mid 60's, right after getting out of the Navy, and spending a lot time hunting and fishing in my time off from school.

By the early 70's I ended my membership, and parted ways with the NRA when they began to show their political teeth, and now I am a dedicated opponent of the NRA, seeing them as one of the most pernicious, anti-social political influence groups in our great nation.

Disclaimer: I am no longer a member of the NRA....switched to GOA years ago.

But how exactly is a group that promotes the safe handling of firearms anti-social???

How is what they do different that any other advocacy group

Like say...planned parenthood?

The only real difference is that the NRA does not (to my knowledge) get any type of govt funding

Maybe it will help if you think of them as a nice big union....one with only voluntary members :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 6:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

More guns in the hands of more people makes eventually leads to more,spree killings and more dead kids.

Modern NRA leadership are absolute scum incapable of even being man enough to admit to any of the negative consequences of the policies they promote and try to force upon America.

If hell exists then laPierre and crew are going there, deservedly so.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 6:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The only people I can see supporting the NRA now are the immature unemployment and those lacking a moral compass of any kind.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 6:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Dec. 30 2012, 5:54 pm)
QUOTE

(HighGravity @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:11 pm)
QUOTE
Guns do not equal automobiles in any logical way.

And why is that?

Well let's start by thinking like a rational person. Can you handle that Babs?

If cars were like guns the following would be true.

1) Cars would be produced for the purpose of killing things.
2) The vast majority of deaths by vehicle would be intentional.
3) Car manufacturers would attempt to make cars as efficient at killing as they possibly could, instead of making every attempt to make them safer.
4) AAA would oppose every regulation to make cars safer or regulate them in any way.
5) Gun owners would be required to own liability insurance.
6) Gun owners would be prosecuted for drinking while handling a gun.
7) All gun owners would be required to own a license.
8) All gun owners would have to undergo several months of probationary training before being issued a license to use their gun. They would then have to pass a test before being issued a gun.
9) There would be yearly required inspections of of every gun.

There are 45 gun deaths per 100,000 gun owner each year and 22 automobile deaths per 100,000 owners per year despite the fact that people drive in cars dozens of hours a week, and guns are operated a fraction of that time.

So stop spouting the latest GOP talking point and think.
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(Land Rover @ Dec. 30 2012, 6:43 pm)
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The only people I can see supporting the NRA now are the immature unemployment and those lacking a moral compass of any kind.

Oh really?  I support the NRA.

Hate speech much?


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(gunslinger @ Dec. 30 2012, 7:03 pm)
QUOTE

(Land Rover @ Dec. 30 2012, 6:43 pm)
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The only people I can see supporting the NRA now are the immature unemployment and those lacking a moral compass of any kind.

Oh really?  I support the NRA.

That was easy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 9:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:11 pm)
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(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:05 pm)
QUOTE
Once again, we see an example of the lack of intellectually ability to perceive an analogy of reason, like the intellectually challenged person who responding to a assertion that planting an orange to try to grow a tree with dollar bills for leaves will have the same result as planting an apple for the same reason, smugly states "there you go again, comparing apples with oranges..."

You resort to false analogies because the argument, when applied to the actual topic, falls flat. Guns do not equal automobiles in any logical way.

Stay out of the courtroom with your kind of "logic."

Part of my success in the courtroom has been the ability to get jurors to rise above their intellectual limitations to see that which they otherwise could not see.

Of course, we try to filter out the those that are so intellectually challenged that they can't think logically under any circumstances.

You'd be a sure candidate for a discharge for cause or a peremptory challenge.  

Guns and autos are analogous in may ways.  

Your inability to comprehend those analogies doesn't eliminate them, it just eliminates you from being able to meaningfully participate in the discussion.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2012, 9:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 9:29 pm)
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(HighGravity @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:11 pm)
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(nogods @ Dec. 30 2012, 1:05 pm)
QUOTE
Once again, we see an example of the lack of intellectually ability to perceive an analogy of reason, like the intellectually challenged person who responding to a assertion that planting an orange to try to grow a tree with dollar bills for leaves will have the same result as planting an apple for the same reason, smugly states "there you go again, comparing apples with oranges..."

You resort to false analogies because the argument, when applied to the actual topic, falls flat. Guns do not equal automobiles in any logical way.

Stay out of the courtroom with your kind of "logic."

Part of my success in the courtroom has been the ability to get jurors to rise above their intellectual limitations to see that which they otherwise could not see.

Of course, we try to filter out the those that are so intellectually challenged that they can't think logically under any circumstances.

You'd be a sure candidate for a discharge for cause or a peremptory challenge.  

Guns and autos are analogous in may ways.  

Your inability to comprehend those analogies doesn't eliminate them, it just eliminates you from being able to meaningfully participate in the discussion.

Car ownership is as analogous to gun ownership as logic is to sophistry.

You don't seem to understand the difference between any of them, although you excel in sophistry, albeit unwittingly.
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