|
|
| Post Number: 1
|
Ben2World 
Group: Members
Posts: 23911
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
 |
Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 6:24 pm |
|
   |
Fiscal cliff deadline to be missed! Read more here.
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
 |
|
|
| Post Number: 2
|
ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
Group: Members
Posts: 10786
Joined: Sep. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:00 pm |
|
 |
I do not see the big deal. Congress will work something out over the next couple of months, and we can all go back to dealing with the important stuff, like restricting access to semi-auto firearms, and implementing healthcare for all. Maybe we can settle on a few other important pieces of legislation.
--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 3
|
Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23911
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:04 pm |
|
|
Stock market closed on the uptick today. I was tempted to sell some stocks -- but I had already sold a bunch this year and didn't want too large a tax bill. Which means... the market will probably tank next week. Sigh...
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 4
|
Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 624
Joined: Sep. 2007
|
|
Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:48 pm |
|
|
Surely no congressional folk would be buying/selling any stocks, based on any inside info about the negotiations?
--------------
My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 5
|
|
|
| Post Number: 6
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39533
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 10:01 pm |
|
|
Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight
"President Obama and Senate Republicans reached a sweeping deal late Monday that would let income taxes rise significantly for the first time in more than two decades, fulfilling Obama’s promise to raise taxes on the rich and averting the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff.”
Vice President Biden arrived at the Capitol just after 9 p.m. to explain the details of the pact he negotiated with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). A Senate vote on the package could be held by 10:30 p.m., beating a midnight deadline, Democratic aides said. The Republican-controlled House will begin considering the bill on Tuesday, with a final vote expected in the next day or two...."
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 7
|
|
|
| Post Number: 8
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39533
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 11:47 am |
|
|
(KenV @ Jan. 02 2013, 7:46 am)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 31 2012, 10:01 pm)
QUOTE Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight"President Obama and Senate Republicans reached a sweeping deal late Monday that would let income taxes rise significantly for the first time in more than two decades, fulfilling Obama’s promise to raise taxes on the rich and averting the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff.” Vice President Biden arrived at the Capitol just after 9 p.m. to explain the details of the pact he negotiated with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). A Senate vote on the package could be held by 10:30 p.m., beating a midnight deadline, Democratic aides said. The Republican-controlled House will begin considering the bill on Tuesday, with a final vote expected in the next day or two...." Do you really think that the House will not make changes, requiring the Senate to reconcile the differences in the bills which will in turn require another Senate vote?
So the rule to let the bill proceed to a vote with no amendments and an hour of debate went with only 10 nays: Slam. Dunk.
Then Boehner gave the ones who needed it leeway to cast a CYA vote since the bill had the votes to pass from the Democratic side of the aisle.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 9
|
ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
Group: Members
Posts: 10786
Joined: Sep. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 12:24 pm |
|
|
I find it enlightening that KenV could post that comment 10 hours after 2 separate posters left the tally from the House vote in 2 different topics. Seems he didn't do ANY research before posting his "Do you really..." question.
Yes, it ended up being an up or down vote, and more than 1/3 of the R's voted Yes.
Also, a vote to amend the Senate bill had to have 218 R votes, since they knew they could not count on any D votes. The R leadership failed to come up with that many, so it was an Up or Down on the Senate bill. Ds lost 16 of their own, presumably because the Senate bill was too much of a compromise for their tastes, so they needed 35 Rs for the Senate version to pass. That they got 50 more than needed gives me some hope for a more cooperative legislature session. ("Some" does not necessarily mean "much". )
--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 10
|
|
|
| Post Number: 11
|
wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 12:52 pm |
|
|
Turned out pretty much the way several posters here had opined all along.
Interesting to see the whining on the fringes, both left and right.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 12
|
wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 2:06 pm |
|
|
Sounds like this was a genuine compromise, whining is coming from all sides!
This may be the definition of compromise -- each side makes enough real concessions to feel truly dissatisfied with the final result, but both sides' ownership of the measure means it can't be used as a political wedge. Nonetheless, the legislation left a bad taste in just about everyone's mouth. Here's why:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politic....0
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 13
|
ol-zeke
me in the Tetons
Group: Members
Posts: 10786
Joined: Sep. 2002
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:40 pm |
|
|
For me, I am dissatisfied because the thresholds for tax rates to be raised is so high, above $250K. The SS and Medicare ceilings were not addressed, and dividend / cap gain income was not taxed as ordinary income. I would have also liked to see the Estate taxes applied to anything over $1 Million.
As for cuts, I could live with a 40% cut in Defense spending, maybe more. That would still leave us with spending more than about the next 10 nations combined.
75% of our national budget is spent in 5 predominant areas: SS; Dept of Defense; Unemployment, Welfare , and other assistence; Medicare; and Medicaid. Add in another 5% for interest payments, and we have about 80% of the US budget.
Cutting the Dept of Defense budget by half would go a long way towards reducing our debt load, and it would also reduce our capacity to act as World Policeman, which would be a good thing, IMO. I cannot see us reducing the budget of either Medicare or Medicaid, so cuts may be necessary to SS to keep them from UEI and Welfare. A 15% cut there, to all but those who live below the poverty line, would cause pain but not so much that we could not tighten our belts and live with it. I have advocated means testing for SS in the past, but it has been pointed out to me that means testing would be more costly than no means testing. IMO, those of us who earn more than $40K a year in retirement should not even receive SS, and that includes me. Not sure how to establish that without means testing.
--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.
The easiest way to ruin a Friday is to realize it is only Tuesday.
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 14
|
mocamper1
Group: Members
Posts: 1909
Joined: Aug. 2006
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:47 pm |
|
|
In honor of the momentous occasion here is a poem that I find strangely appropriate:
Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
Robert Frost
--------------
"It's time to be immortal 'cause heroes never die!"
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 15
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39533
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:48 pm |
|
|
Except Social Security is within it's own channel, the SS payroll tax goes in and then out as SS payments. The one recent development is that with tax receipts down due to the recession they've started using some of the trust fund monies that were paid in previously as an excess over the then- current payouts: and that cashing in of Treasury Bonds (mandated by law as the only place to park the trust fund money) has some effect on current fiscal issues.
Unless we went back to the bad old system of SS payroll taxes "balancing" other parts of the federal budget any reduction in SS benefits would most logically mean a reduction in payroll taxes: so it'd be a wash as far as the deficit goes...
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 16
|
Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23911
Joined: Jun. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:53 pm |
|
|
Whew. So the market is rallying today. Just sold some stocks to help dampen the 'euphoria'. 
--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
|
|
|
|
| Post Number: 17
|
High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39533
Joined: Aug. 2005
|
|
Posted on: Jan. 03 2013, 12:40 am |
|
|
President Obama signed the bill.
Well, he authorized an auto pen signing...
Now it seems the president must sign the actual enrolled copy signed by House Speaker and Senate Pres Pro Tempore so no faxes, but why not simply FedEx that to the president's location? Anybody?
Did it have to be signed before the new Congress went into session?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
