SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Fiscal Cliff for Sure Now!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25450
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 6:24 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Fiscal cliff deadline to be missed!  Read more here.

--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12362
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I do not see the big deal.  Congress will work something out over the next couple of months, and we can all go back to dealing with the important stuff, like restricting access to semi-auto firearms, and implementing healthcare for all.  Maybe we can settle on a few other important pieces of legislation.

--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25450
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Stock market closed on the uptick today.  I was tempted to sell some stocks -- but I had already sold a bunch this year and didn't want too large a tax bill.   Which means... the market will probably tank next week.   Sigh...

--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
Old Frank Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sep. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 7:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Surely no congressional folk would be buying/selling any stocks, based on any inside info about the negotiations?

--------------
My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12362
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 8:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Dec. 31 2012, 4:48 pm)
QUOTE
Surely no congressional folk would be buying/selling any stocks, based on any inside info about the negotiations?

Interesting point.  Makes me wonder if all of Congress doesn't have to put their holdings in a blind trust, so they are not subject to SEC investigations?  

--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42724
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2012, 10:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

"President Obama and Senate Republicans reached a sweeping deal late Monday that would let income taxes rise significantly for the first time in more than two decades, fulfilling Obama’s promise to raise taxes on the rich and averting the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff.”

Vice President Biden arrived at the Capitol just after 9 p.m. to explain the details of the pact he negotiated with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). A Senate vote on the package could be held by 10:30 p.m., beating a midnight deadline, Democratic aides said. The Republican-controlled House will begin considering the bill on Tuesday, with a final vote expected in the next day or two...."
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
KenV Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6866
Joined: Mar. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 31 2012, 10:01 pm)
QUOTE
Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

"President Obama and Senate Republicans reached a sweeping deal late Monday that would let income taxes rise significantly for the first time in more than two decades, fulfilling Obama’s promise to raise taxes on the rich and averting the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff.”

Vice President Biden arrived at the Capitol just after 9 p.m. to explain the details of the pact he negotiated with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). A Senate vote on the package could be held by 10:30 p.m., beating a midnight deadline, Democratic aides said. The Republican-controlled House will begin considering the bill on Tuesday, with a final vote expected in the next day or two...."

Do you really think that the House will not make changes, requiring the Senate to reconcile the differences in the bills which will in turn require another Senate vote?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42724
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 11:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(KenV @ Jan. 02 2013, 7:46 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Dec. 31 2012, 10:01 pm)
QUOTE
Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

"President Obama and Senate Republicans reached a sweeping deal late Monday that would let income taxes rise significantly for the first time in more than two decades, fulfilling Obama’s promise to raise taxes on the rich and averting the worst effects of the “fiscal cliff.”

Vice President Biden arrived at the Capitol just after 9 p.m. to explain the details of the pact he negotiated with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). A Senate vote on the package could be held by 10:30 p.m., beating a midnight deadline, Democratic aides said. The Republican-controlled House will begin considering the bill on Tuesday, with a final vote expected in the next day or two...."

Do you really think that the House will not make changes, requiring the Senate to reconcile the differences in the bills which will in turn require another Senate vote?

So the rule to let the bill proceed to a vote with no amendments and an hour of debate went with only 10 nays: Slam. Dunk.

Then Boehner gave the ones who needed it leeway to cast a CYA vote since the bill had the votes to pass from the Democratic side of the aisle.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12362
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 12:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I find it enlightening that KenV could post that comment 10 hours after 2 separate posters left the tally from the House vote in 2 different topics.  Seems he didn't do ANY research before posting his "Do you really..." question.

Yes, it ended up being an up or down vote, and more than 1/3 of the R's voted Yes.

Also, a vote to amend the Senate bill had to have 218 R votes, since they knew they could not count on any D votes.  The R leadership failed to come up with that many, so it was an Up or Down on the Senate bill.  Ds lost 16 of their own, presumably because the Senate bill was too much of a compromise for their tastes, so they needed 35 Rs for the Senate version to pass.  That they got 50 more than needed gives me some hope for a more cooperative legislature session.  ("Some"  does not necessarily mean "much". ) 


--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42724
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 12:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(ol-zeke @ Jan. 02 2013, 9:24 am)
QUOTE
I find it enlightening that KenV could post that comment 10 hours after 2 separate posters left the tally from the House vote in 2 different topics.  Seems he didn't do ANY research before posting his "Do you really..." question.

Yes, it ended up being an up or down vote, and more than 1/3 of the R's voted Yes.  

Hah!, Hadn't caught the time.

The thing that intrigues me is that on the "real" vote, the vote on the rule, the nays numbered only 10! The vote on the bill was a defensive vote for those Republicans needing cover as I see it, the one where true feelings could be seen was on the rule.  Or finally some political reality seeping into the the equation? A step back from a casual acceptance of crashing the government and hence the country in name of black and white "principle" would be welcome.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6286
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 12:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Turned out pretty much the way several posters here had opined all along.

Interesting to see the whining on the fringes, both left and right.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6286
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 2:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sounds like this was a genuine compromise, whining is coming from all sides!

This may be the definition of compromise -- each side makes enough real concessions to feel truly dissatisfied with the final result, but both sides' ownership of the measure means it can't be used as a political wedge. Nonetheless, the legislation left a bad taste in just about everyone's mouth. Here's why:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politic....0


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
ol-zeke Search for posts by this member.
Clear Creek
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 12362
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

For me, I am dissatisfied because the thresholds for tax rates to be raised is so high, above $250K.  The SS and Medicare ceilings were not addressed, and dividend / cap gain income was not taxed as ordinary income.  I would have also liked to see the Estate taxes applied to anything over $1 Million.

As for cuts, I could live with a 40% cut in Defense spending, maybe more.  That would still leave us with spending more than about the next 10 nations combined.  

75% of our national budget is spent in 5 predominant areas: SS; Dept of Defense; Unemployment, Welfare , and other assistence; Medicare; and Medicaid.  Add in another 5% for interest payments, and we have about 80% of the US budget.

Cutting the Dept of Defense budget by half would go a long way towards reducing our debt load, and it would also reduce our capacity to act as World Policeman, which would be a good thing, IMO.  I cannot see us reducing the budget of either Medicare or Medicaid, so cuts may be necessary to SS to keep them from UEI and Welfare.  A 15% cut there, to all but those who live below the poverty line, would cause pain but not so much that we could not tighten our belts and live with it.  I have advocated means testing for SS in the past, but it has been pointed out to me that means testing would be more costly than no means testing.  IMO, those of us who earn more than $40K a year in retirement should not even receive SS, and that includes me.  Not sure how to establish that without means testing.  


--------------
Everything I know, I learned by doing it wrong at least twice.

"I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth."  Steve McQueen
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
mocamper1 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1948
Joined: Aug. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In honor of the momentous occasion here is a poem that I find strangely appropriate:  

Fire and Ice

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

Robert Frost


--------------
"It's time to be immortal 'cause heroes never die!"
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42724
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Except Social Security is within it's own channel, the SS payroll tax goes in and then out as SS payments. The one recent development is that with tax receipts down due to the recession they've started using some of the trust fund monies that were paid in previously as an excess over the then- current payouts: and that cashing in of Treasury Bonds (mandated by law as the only place to park the trust fund money) has some effect on current fiscal issues.

Unless we went back to the bad old system of SS payroll taxes "balancing" other parts of the federal budget any reduction in SS benefits would most logically mean a reduction in payroll taxes: so it'd be a wash as far as the deficit goes...
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
Ben2World Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 25450
Joined: Jun. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 02 2013, 3:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Whew.  So the market is rallying today.  Just sold some stocks to help dampen the 'euphoria'.  :D

--------------
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.  -- St. Augustine
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 17
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 42724
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 03 2013, 12:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

President Obama signed the bill.

Well, he authorized an auto pen signing...

Now it seems the president must sign the actual enrolled copy signed by House Speaker and Senate Pres Pro Tempore so no faxes, but why not simply FedEx that to the president's location? Anybody?

Did it have to be signed before the new Congress went into session?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
16 replies since Dec. 31 2012, 6:24 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Fiscal Cliff for Sure Now!
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions