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| Post Number: 1
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gunslinger 
Group: Members
Posts: 6041
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 1:09 pm |
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You liberals are going to hate this.......
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013....hotguns
This report proving the proposed ban is a knee jerk reaction based on emotion.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 2
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Dennis The Menace
Group: Members
Posts: 8482
Joined: Apr. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 1:21 pm |
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I see common sense and logic is a problem once again for Gunslinger. First the article says
specifically "rifles" and not firearms in general. Second people are going to obviously
have far more access to Hammers than Rifles. If the stat was broke down in terms of
% so that you would look at the ratio of # of rifles to # of deaths versus the ratio of
# of Hammers versus # of deaths we would obviously see a total different view.
Now slinger. Did you not see the thread I made and the assoicated graph on violent deaths?
http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....1162211
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if you first punch someone and then that someone punches back and then you complain to
someone else that you were punched, then you're a silly fool
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| Post Number: 3
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
Posts: 5321
Joined: Feb. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 1:28 pm |
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It's frightening to think how many more innocent people Adam Lanza would have killed if his weapon of choice had been hammers instead of firearms!
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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| Post Number: 4
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4126
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 2:06 pm |
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Apparently gunslinger has never heard one of the old jokes about bringing a knife to a gunfight!??
gunslinger, how would you feel about a duel at 20 paces where you bring your hammer, and the other guy/gal brings his/her single shot rifle?
Even if the opponent misses he/she will still have a better club than your hammer! 
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| Post Number: 5
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2380
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 5:08 pm |
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Slinger is 496 a higher or lower number than 679?
Is it a higher or lower number than 8000?
Do you ever think through this stuff at all before posting?
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| Post Number: 7
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GoBlueHiker
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Group: Members
Posts: 14223
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 5:37 pm |
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(HighGravity @ Jan. 04 2013, 3:08 pm)
QUOTE Slinger is 496 a higher or lower number than 679?
I caught that too. That math only works if you purposely separate rifles from shotguns (it doesn't even mention handguns) and compare each one to all hammers and clubs (which of course weren't separated).
From the article...
QUOTE In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.
That's ignoring the total # of hammers vs. rifles/shotguns issue brought up before.
It's not even a semi-intelligent manipulation of the numbers.
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Wealth needs more. Happiness needs less. Simplify.
www.RainForestTreks.com
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| Post Number: 8
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4888
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 5:41 pm |
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The point seems to be that banning/restricting "assault" rifles doesn't change the overall statistics.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 9
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 6:18 pm |
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This really didn't go so well did it slinger?
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| Post Number: 11
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4126
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 6:28 pm |
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Umm, about average for slinger, I would say. 
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| Post Number: 12
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Bass
Group: Members
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 8:33 pm |
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Good post and a great link!
Gunslinger's link focuses on the big picture - that ALL potential offensive weapons, NOT JUST GUNS, should be considered. I also maintain that killers will simply turn to OTHER offensive weapons once all the guns are confiscated. In a society as violent as America's, access to ALL potential offensive weapons is the problem.
I am not so concerned about clubs and hammers, but am very concerned about materials that can be used to make IED's - homemade bombs. A simple homemade bomb would probably have killed many more elementary students while allowing the madman to detonate the bomb from a distance using an easily available cellphone. This works in Afghanistan every day!
It is a lot of fun to poke fun at Gunslinger - but he does have a good point!
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| Post Number: 13
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| Post Number: 14
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gunslinger
Group: Members
Posts: 6041
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 9:52 pm |
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The sad thing is you liberals want to ban the most popular firearm sold in the US today when it's plays a very small role in over all firearm deaths.
Liberals are just plain idiots i guess. Chicken littles.....waiting for the sky to fall.
No ban, no how, no way.
I hope the NRA makes you spend it all.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 15
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39805
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 10:01 pm |
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First they'll come for your Bushmaster and then they'll come for my neighbor's lawnmower fuel but then, oh my then, they'll come for my ski boat fuel and wine bottles! And Tide! Leaving me sober and somewhat dusty.
The horror.
Um, spend what "all"?
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39805
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 04 2013, 10:51 pm |
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(gunslinger @ Jan. 04 2013, 7:17 pm)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 04 2013, 10:01 pm)
QUOTE Um, spend what "all"? The political capital. You see what happened after the last ban.....
Ah, that makes sense. Political systems do seem to have a fairly low bandwidth as well.
Which is in this instance is why I'd prefer more emphasis on school security.
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george of the j
Group: Members
Posts: 465
Joined: Apr. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 2:53 am |
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I believe that if all guns were magically disinigrated, murder rates in the U.S. would drop. But all the murders commited with guns would not be prevented; a certain percentage of those murders would still be commited by other means. A stalker ex-boyfriend might kill a woman with a knife instead of a pistol. A madman would "go postal" with a pickup truck on a sidewalk crowded with pedestrians.
By what percentage do you think the U.S. murder rate would drop with no guns at all? 10%? I don't know.
Now, find the statistics for murders commited with the weapons that many are clamoring to ban---assault weapons and high capacity magazines. Do those of you calling to ban these even know the statistics? I don't either, but I'm sure they are lower than most of you think, as Gunslinger is pointing out with this thread. So by what percentage would the U.S. murder rate realistically drop with this ban?
And remember, just because an assault weapon is used in a murder does not mean the full capability of that weapon was used. For example, the DC sniper used an AR-15, but could just as well used a bolt action rifle, since he was not spraying multiple rounds. And a stalker ex-boyfriend might use a 9mm pistol with a high capacity magazine, but if he only fires one shot to the head, then he could have just as easily used a revolver. So again, realistically by what percentage will the U.S. murder rate be reduced by this assault weapon ban so many are calling for?
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| Post Number: 22
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KenV
Group: Members
Posts: 5569
Joined: Mar. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 7:14 am |
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(Dennis The Menace @ Jan. 04 2013, 1:21 pm)
QUOTE I see common sense and logic is a problem once again for Gunslinger. First the article says specifically "rifles" and not firearms in general. Second people are going to obviously have far more access to Hammers than Rifles. If the stat was broke down in terms of % so that you would look at the ratio of # of rifles to # of deaths versus the ratio of # of Hammers versus # of deaths we would obviously see a total different view. Now slinger. Did you not see the thread I made and the assoicated graph on violent deaths? http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....1162211
Your approach MIGHT be valid IF the tool were the cause of the deaths, and that is false. The tool user is the cause of the deaths, not the tool. The point is a murderer is going to murder. Take away one tool and he will use another.
As for your graph, it's interesting, but meaningless. Did you bother to consider why there is a spike of violent deaths related to age? Is it because guns jump into the hands of young males and turn them into killers, or is it because the preponderence of murderers are young males. Yes, guns are a convenient way for them to accomplish that. But absent guns, would these young males magically stop killing? Or would they simply use a different tool? Maybe a hammer?
Second, homicide statistics include ALL killings, including suicide and bad guys getting shot by police and by civilians. Take away the guns and the bad guys will still kill, maybe using a hammer. But if you take away the guns the civilians will have no effective means of self defense. A hammer duel between an old man or woman and a young male is going to end only one way. Allow that old man or woman to have a gun, and the outcome will likely be VERY different.
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| Post Number: 23
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gunslinger
Group: Members
Posts: 6041
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 7:21 am |
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You guys just can't work fast enough to strip the rights of the american people.
You raise hell about asking a person who appears at the polls for a picture ID arguing it disenfranchises minorities and at the same time don't have a problem with ID's, background checks, all out bans, and confiscation of firearms.
Get ready for a fight on this one boys.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 24
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KenV
Group: Members
Posts: 5569
Joined: Mar. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 7:33 am |
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(HighGravity @ Jan. 04 2013, 5:57 pm)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 04 2013, 5:41 pm)
QUOTE The point seems to be that banning/restricting "assault" rifles doesn't change the overall statistics. Does it make killing lots of people in one spot easier or harder than using a hammer?
Yes, an "assault rifle" is an effective mass killing machine in a classroom.
So is a shotgun.
So is a machete.
As an example, in several weeks time half a MILLION people died in the Rwanda genocide. The vast majority by machete. Machete?!! Machete's don't even show up on Dennis' graph. How come people don't die by machete here? They're not as common here as they are in Rwanda, where EVERYone has one. But imagine for a moment if the victims of the genocide had something as simple as a light revolver to defend themselves with. Would the genocide ever have happened?
Again, it's not the tool that's the problem. It's the heart and mind of the person wielding the tool. If murder is in their heart, they will find the tool to do it.
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 8:55 am |
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You know not all lung cancer deaths involved smoking. So lets all keep lighting up!
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| Post Number: 27
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gunslinger
Group: Members
Posts: 6041
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:06 am |
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You going to try and steal a persons right to smoke next?
How long before big brother monitors everything?
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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GoBlueHiker
Obsessive Island Hopper...
Group: Members
Posts: 14223
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 05 2013, 9:32 am |
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FWIW, I personally don't believe that an "assault weapons ban" is going to solve anything at all, slinger. You seem so intent on lumping anything that looks mildly "liberal" to you into one homogeneous category... which is, to put it mildly, stupid.
I simply don't agree with the ridiculous premise in your OP that hammers are more dangerous than guns. And the finagled numbers in that article don't back that up.
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Wealth needs more. Happiness needs less. Simplify.
www.RainForestTreks.com
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