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Topic: Have at it......Every house to have Guns< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 08 2013, 10:33 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hitting the news here....

http://www.ksl.com/index.p....ff-says
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 08 2013, 11:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Gun Ownership - It's The Law In Kennesaw

KENNESAW, Ga - Several Kennesaw officials attribute a drop in crime in the city over the past two decades to a law that requires residents to have a gun in the house.

In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

The ordinance states the gun law is needed to "protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants."

Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone "went crazy."

"People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."

In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.

Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.


http://rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Around here, I assume a gun IS in most every house.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 11:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bbobb169 @ Jan. 08 2013, 8:33 pm)
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Hitting the news here....

http://www.ksl.com/index.p....ff-says

Gotta read the article. It does not require each household to have guns, it just says the city council recommends them. Big difference.
BTW, I'm pretty conservative, and have no problems with guns, but don't own one myself. Part of that is due to my wife being uncomfortable with them-she lost her dad to a hunting accident-and part of that is that guns and ammo are expensive. If I have three hundred extra bucks, it's time for a new down bag.  :)


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 1:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Perfect example of how demographics will take care of gun control in the long run, I just want to speed up the process, maybe save a few school kids in the meantime.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 1:48 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We should all have guns from cradle to grave, even if it hastens the transition from the former to the latter.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 2:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A quick look at the crime stats for that area indicate it's probably among the safest communities in all of America.
But hey, The Boogie Man does exist - even if it's only in your mind.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 5:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Jan. 09 2013, 2:38 pm)
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A quick look at the crime stats for that area indicate it's probably among the safest communities in all of America.

So was Newtown, CT...

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I told my neighbors one night we had just come back from the range. They both admitted that guns scared them and oooh how scary. Then the husband said...actually, I feel like if we were comfortable around them it wouldn't be scary, maybe I'll go with you one night?

It got me to thinking. My FIL was on a rifle team in high school. It used to be much more common that people had a working knowledge of firearm parts, at least I think that's the case. Maybe more education is better, and would make this whole issue less "scary?" I know I'm in CA so I have probably a skewed experience, but most people I've spoken to on this have both never handled a firearm and are terrified of them. Those same people are for an outright ban.

Those that have a little working knowledge are for reasonable regulations.

Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Kenshaw Ga council are idiots.

the only people who should possess a firearm are those who want to possess a firearm.

A firearm requires that one exercise a high degree of responsibility.  

When you own a firearm for personal protection, you have to be as committed to not using it inappropriately just as much as you are willing to use it appropriately.

You can't legislate that type of commitment.

The issue has never been the firearm.  Rather, the problem is the gun owner.

We need to focus on keeping guns out of the hands of people who sholuldn't own guns.

Encouraging people who don't want to own firearms to acquire firearms is just plain stupid.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:09 pm)
QUOTE
Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought.

This goes back to your alcohol argument in another thread, where you discuss how much more deadly alcohol is than guns.

I would wager the average lesson to a teen from his parents goes like this, "This is alcohol, this is what it does, and don't ever drink and drive, you might kill".  Yet, we still have an unacceptable amount of deaths each and every year from alcohol, as you pointed out.

So really, maybe the whole "gun talk" to your children thing wouldn't be quite as effective as actual regulations.  We've seen how effective talks revolving around sex, drugs, and alcohol are for teens/young adults...not very.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:17 pm)
QUOTE
The Kenshaw Ga council are idiots.

the only people who should possess a firearm are those who want to possess a firearm.

A firearm requires that one exercise a high degree of responsibility.  

When you own a firearm for personal protection, you have to be as committed to not using it inappropriately just as much as you are willing to use it appropriately.

You can't legislate that type of commitment.

The issue has never been the firearm.  Rather, the problem is the gun owner.

We need to focus on keeping guns out of the hands of people who sholuldn't own guns.

Encouraging people who don't want to own firearms to acquire firearms is just plain stupid.

NG - fortunately there's no real requirement to own a gun.  Just media hype.  Everyone from "paupers" to the mentally unstable to those who are against gun ownership due to various beliefs are exempt from this "law".  

And I agree whole-heartedly that gun ownership bears a high level of responsibility, as it should.  Responsible gun owners should be able to enjoy the rights afforded to them.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(EastieTrekker @ Jan. 09 2013, 3:18 pm)
QUOTE

(yosemite girl @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:09 pm)
QUOTE
Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought.

This goes back to your alcohol argument in another thread, where you discuss how much more deadly alcohol is than guns.

I would wager the average lesson to a teen from his parents goes like this, "This is alcohol, this is what it does, and don't ever drink and drive, you might kill".  Yet, we still have an unacceptable amount of deaths each and every year from alcohol, as you pointed out.

So really, maybe the whole "gun talk" to your children thing wouldn't be quite as effective as actual regulations.  We've seen how effective talks revolving around sex, drugs, and alcohol are for teens/young adults...not very.

That's the talk I got as a kid re: firearms. We had 3 rifles in the closet, never locked, as well as at least 1 pistol...I was shown how to use them, taught respect for them, and there were no accidents.

There is a big difference between "talking" and "explaining." When I taught 10th / 11th grade English I had a few days where we did "life stuff," like alcohol, drugs, guns, all of that. These were inner city, Los Angeles students. Several said they had only been told "don't do x, y, z..." but they had never been told why. I actually did my lesson with images about decision making speed and substance effect on brain waves. Explained why and how, and didn't just say "don't."  

"Talks" are not effective. Education - well thought out, tailored education for specific groups - is.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 7:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

YG girl is right. I have a gun cabinet full of weapons. My kids could access them at any time in their lives here.
They didn't. I knew they wouldn't because of generations of youth growing up here Montana rarely did. Weapons are dangerous tools, and are respected for what they could do to you.

I took them out when very young, set water melons out for targets. I put little hats on the melons and drew faces. Told the kids that the Mellon's represented a kids head. I let them shoot the weapons at fairly close range. The looks on their faces when watermelon blew back on them was priceless.  Of course the melons blew mostly in pieces. Similar to what a head would. Used a pistol 41. magnum, and a 12 gauge shotgun, then a hi powered hunting rifle. None very nice to shoot. That way they experienced the unfriendly noise and effects completely.

They all went through hunters education and hunted. None are "gun nuts" and none spend lots of time admiring weapons. We don't own any "assault type" weaponry, but feel that it should stay legal.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 7:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought

I completley agree that firearm education should be a part of new comprehensive approach to making guns less deadly in the hands of a mass killer.  Kids should know the general design and mechanism of a gun, and should have training in target practice, probably with pellet guns, to understand the dangers and the need for safety.

Ranch kids pretty much get that at home, but town kids hardly ever do. ( Pretty much the same deal with working.)

Here in Eastern Colorado it was quite normal for a high school kid to have a rifle in the rack in his pickup, parked at school.  Until Columbine happened.

Guess we are going to get more "urban" even as population thins to the vanishing point out here.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 7:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BackpackHNTR @ Jan. 09 2013, 4:11 pm)
QUOTE
YG girl is right. I have a gun cabinet full of weapons. My kids could access them at any time in their lives here.
They didn't. I knew they wouldn't because of generations of youth growing up here Montana rarely did. Weapons are dangerous tools, and are respected for what they could do to you.

I took them out when very young, set water melons out for targets. I put little hats on the melons and drew faces. Told the kids that the Mellon's represented a kids head. I let them shoot the weapons at fairly close range. The looks on their faces when watermelon blew back on them was priceless.  Of course the melons blew mostly in pieces. Similar to what a head would. Used a pistol 41. magnum, and a 12 gauge shotgun, then a hi powered hunting rifle. None very nice to shoot. That way they experienced the unfriendly noise and effects completely.

They all went through hunters education and hunted. None are "gun nuts" and none spend lots of time admiring weapons. We don't own any "assault type" weaponry, but feel that it should stay legal.

That "melon" lesson is the most fantastic thing I've heard. When I have kids, we are doing that.

I've also said that we were more afraid of what our parents would do to us if we messed with the firearms in an inappropriate way than the firearms themselves. That's missing today, too.

(I wasn't beaten or anything as a kid, but we had enough respect for our parents to mind them and knew they weren't our buddies. They are now, but not until we turned 18!)


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Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(nogods @ Jan. 09 2013, 4:17 pm)
QUOTE
The Kenshaw Ga council are idiots.

the only people who should possess a firearm are those who want to possess a firearm.

A firearm requires that one exercise a high degree of responsibility.  

When you own a firearm for personal protection, you have to be as committed to not using it inappropriately just as much as you are willing to use it appropriately.

You can't legislate that type of commitment.

The issue has never been the firearm.  Rather, the problem is the gun owner.

We need to focus on keeping guns out of the hands of people who sholuldn't own guns.

Encouraging people who don't want to own firearms to acquire firearms is just plain stupid.

It's politics. There are so many exceptions that no one who doesn't want one has to get one.

You obviously also missed the fact that their crime rate dropped 89% after the ordinance passed.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 8:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jan. 09 2013, 1:44 pm)
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Perfect example of how demographics will take care of gun control in the long run, I just want to speed up the process, maybe save a few school kids in the meantime.

Please explain.  How do demographics come into play here?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 10:38 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:46 pm)
QUOTE

(EastieTrekker @ Jan. 09 2013, 3:18 pm)
QUOTE

(yosemite girl @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:09 pm)
QUOTE
Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought.

This goes back to your alcohol argument in another thread, where you discuss how much more deadly alcohol is than guns.

I would wager the average lesson to a teen from his parents goes like this, "This is alcohol, this is what it does, and don't ever drink and drive, you might kill".  Yet, we still have an unacceptable amount of deaths each and every year from alcohol, as you pointed out.

So really, maybe the whole "gun talk" to your children thing wouldn't be quite as effective as actual regulations.  We've seen how effective talks revolving around sex, drugs, and alcohol are for teens/young adults...not very.

That's the talk I got as a kid re: firearms. We had 3 rifles in the closet, never locked, as well as at least 1 pistol...I was shown how to use them, taught respect for them, and there were no accidents.

There is a big difference between "talking" and "explaining." When I taught 10th / 11th grade English I had a few days where we did "life stuff," like alcohol, drugs, guns, all of that. These were inner city, Los Angeles students. Several said they had only been told "don't do x, y, z..." but they had never been told why. I actually did my lesson with images about decision making speed and substance effect on brain waves. Explained why and how, and didn't just say "don't."  

"Talks" are not effective. Education - well thought out, tailored education for specific groups - is.

So your argument against my post is that "talks" are not effective, but education is?  C'mon that's a bit disingenuous, don't you think.

You're really just parsing my words.  I put "gun talk" in quotes as a way of characterizing your previous post where you say we shouldn't teach our kids that guns are bad, but rather "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill."

Well, I modeled my sentence about alcohol, exactly on your sample sentence about guns.  So I was delivering the same point you were making.

Yes, parents should educate their children on the dangers of guns, sex, drugs, and alcohol, but if you haven't noticed there are still TONS of kids who drink underage, use illegal drugs, have sex, and yes perhaps access their parents guns who don't keep them locked up because they thought they "taught" their kids some responsibility.

Yes, maybe you learned to treat guns with respect, but I don't want to happen upon the kid whose parents don't lock their guns and he/she didn't really care to "learn" anything from their parents lesson.

ETA: The point of regulations is to remove the risk of danger.  Education helps, but a requirement for locked gun safes and other sensible regulations provide a more direct hedging of risk.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 10:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 09 2013, 8:01 pm)
QUOTE

(nogods @ Jan. 09 2013, 4:17 pm)
QUOTE
The Kenshaw Ga council are idiots.

the only people who should possess a firearm are those who want to possess a firearm.

A firearm requires that one exercise a high degree of responsibility.  

When you own a firearm for personal protection, you have to be as committed to not using it inappropriately just as much as you are willing to use it appropriately.

You can't legislate that type of commitment.

The issue has never been the firearm.  Rather, the problem is the gun owner.

We need to focus on keeping guns out of the hands of people who sholuldn't own guns.

Encouraging people who don't want to own firearms to acquire firearms is just plain stupid.

It's politics. There are so many exceptions that no one who doesn't want one has to get one.

You obviously also missed the fact that their crime rate dropped 89% after the ordinance passed.

Oooooh. In a 325 household "city" the crime rate dropped 89%? Maybe the year before the gun recommendation someone put an M-80 in someone's mailbox. Or shoplifted some combos.
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(EastieTrekker @ Jan. 10 2013, 7:38 am)
QUOTE
So your argument against my post is that "talks" are not effective, but education is?  C'mon that's a bit disingenuous, don't you think.

You're really just parsing my words.  I put "gun talk" in quotes as a way of characterizing your previous post where you say we shouldn't teach our kids that guns are bad, but rather "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill."

Well, I modeled my sentence about alcohol, exactly on your sample sentence about guns.  So I was delivering the same point you were making.

Yes, parents should educate their children on the dangers of guns, sex, drugs, and alcohol, but if you haven't noticed there are still TONS of kids who drink underage, use illegal drugs, have sex, and yes perhaps access their parents guns who don't keep them locked up because they thought they "taught" their kids some responsibility.

Yes, maybe you learned to treat guns with respect, but I don't want to happen upon the kid whose parents don't lock their guns and he/she didn't really care to "learn" anything from their parents lesson.

ETA: The point of regulations is to remove the risk of danger.  Education helps, but a requirement for locked gun safes and other sensible regulations provide a more direct hedging of risk.

Yes, it is, and no, it isn't disingenuous. You can't just "tell" someone something, you have to teach it. This is the underlying flaw in ALL education today - teachers stand up in the front of the room and, essentially, quack, instead of making their lesson plans keep up with the needs of the actual bodies in their classrooms. Yes, I'm an educator, and my lesson plans were radically different than my peers' plans. All of my inner city 10th graders passed the high school exit exam (CAHSEE in CA) too.

You did model your sentence on mine - about firearms. Alcohol/substances are not firearms, they function differently, so...different lesson plans, right? That's exactly my point.

I think there are tons of kids who drink underage / have sex / and maybe access their parents guns because there are tons of parents and educators not doing their jobs. It's not that the kid didn't "care to learn," it's that no one cared to teach them.

As far as the regulation for locked gun safes and "other sensible regulations" - well, in CA that IS required - they have to be either in a safe or have a trigger lock.

It's education and parenting, is what it comes down to. No amount of regulation is going to keep these firearms out of the hands of people who really want to use them to do damage - is it? I've heard a lot about banning / regulating / tracking / etc., but no real plans for keeping those "banned" firearms out of the hands of "criminals." I'm honestly curious, because I have not heard one mention of such a plan.


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Something around the eyes...I don't know...reminds me of...me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 1:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, here is a take on it from a source I would have never expected....
Pravda sez-don't give up your guns!
Until I read the whole article, I thought it was TIC or mocking the USA, but the writer was serious, with a serious reason.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 1:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

YG - you're not getting my point.  I don't understand why, but that is okay.  You are being a little disingenuous, however.  I specifically tried to explain that my "sample sentence" isn't how I'd actually deliver my "lesson".   That's a little obvious don't you think?  I've made clear, well-laid out arguments here, so how likely is it that my lesson on guns/alcohol would be limited to a single, simplified sentence?  I was simply trying to relay the fact that no matter how thorough the lesson, there will still be teens that rebel, don't grasp the real risks involved, etc. (i.e. using the same technique you did, yet you're criticizing my simplicity??) So the fact that you're trying to simplify my point, and whittle it down to "that statement didn't have enough substance to prevent teens from doing XXX" is what I mean by disingenuous.

The real problem is your reliance on parents and teachers to ensure lessons get taught.  Problem with that is, you cannot control the millions of teachers and parents in this country (and how they teach their kids life lessons).  Good for you if you try to take a different approach then most, but the REALITY of this country is that despite "lessons" or "talks" on guns, drugs, alcohol, and sex of various levels of comprehension, kids still get into trouble.  There's no denying this fact.

So, therefor the argument that a lack of education is the real problem with our "gun issue" is also disingenuous if offered as a solution.  Yes, parents need to step up in their child's life - we all, as a society, would benefit from that.  but even YOU yourself (and HNTR) admitted that while you grew up in a "gun responsible" household that your parents guns were left UNLOCKED!!!!  That's not responsible and just further proves my point, that you can educate all you want, but there needs to be comprehensive regulations to hedge risk.

Maybe you're happy with your state's regulations, but as a country we need work on this topic.  As an example, I too, live in a heavily liberal state (MA).  Of course we, like CA, already have strict regulations (relative to the rest of the country), so there's less work to be done in our states...


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 1:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok I see what you're saying, but I think our difference of opinion really just lies on education as a "gun control" method in itself, without more - more regulations / restrictions / etc. Right?

I basically think that the firearm regulations are just fine the way they are, and the gap needs to be filled by parents, educators, mental health professionals, and firearm owners that take responsibility for their property (not leaving them accessible to just anyone).

You're for tighter regulations. That's fine. We're allowed to disagree!

Have you said what those regulations might be? If so, point me over to it, I may have missed it because there are a lot of posts on this. I'm actually interested because I'm one that is really more interested in understanding all sides of an argument than trying to convince anyone (even though discussions about alcohol sometimes make my head spin around due to personal experience - I fully admit that!).


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 1:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 10 2013, 1:23 pm)
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Ok I see what you're saying, but I think our difference of opinion really just lies on education as a "gun control" method in itself, without more - more regulations / restrictions / etc. Right?

I basically think that the firearm regulations are just fine the way they are, and the gap needs to be filled by parents, educators, mental health professionals, and firearm owners that take responsibility for their property (not leaving them accessible to just anyone).

You're for tighter regulations. That's fine. We're allowed to disagree!

Have you said what those regulations might be? If so, point me over to it, I may have missed it because there are a lot of posts on this. I'm actually interested because I'm one that is really more interested in understanding all sides of an argument than trying to convince anyone (even though discussions about alcohol sometimes make my head spin around due to personal experience - I fully admit that!).

YG - Yes, I think that's right.  I do not mean to imply that I think education has no place in this conversation.  I think proper education (versus guns are bad) is very important, as a comprehensive approach.  And you're right, where we ultimately differ is that I'd like to see a little more done (and disagreement is perfectly fine  :D ).

I haven't really commented at all on what those regulations might be.  Initially I was on the ban AR bandwagon (and I admit that I don't FULLY understand all the differences between AR/Hunting rifles).  It wasn't the only solution in my mind, and I've at least been somewhat convinced that perhaps they aren't THAT much worse than a regular hunting rifle.  But the jury is still out on that one, as I try to further educate myself.  

Truth is I really don't know the solution, and I'm waiting to see what the more knowledgeable folks, who share my opinion, come up with, and at that point I'll decide whether I think that is a purposeful regulation (I won't blindly support just anything).  I guess my thoughts there would be along the lines of: limiting # bullets in a magazine, some kind of regulation on the amount of guns/ammo that can be amassed, say within a 30 day period, etc.  Is smart gun technology viable?  I have no idea, but that also sounds like a good goal to work towards.

On this topic, I'm really not all that far to the left, but I do think we need some kind of change from today (nationally, state-by-state will obviously have it's variations).

Good discussion - glad we were able to see eye-to-eye!!


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 8:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:09 pm)
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I told my neighbors one night we had just come back from the range. They both admitted that guns scared them and oooh how scary. Then the husband said...actually, I feel like if we were comfortable around them it wouldn't be scary, maybe I'll go with you one night?

It got me to thinking. My FIL was on a rifle team in high school. It used to be much more common that people had a working knowledge of firearm parts, at least I think that's the case. Maybe more education is better, and would make this whole issue less "scary?" I know I'm in CA so I have probably a skewed experience, but most people I've spoken to on this have both never handled a firearm and are terrified of them. Those same people are for an outright ban.

Those that have a little working knowledge are for reasonable regulations.

Maybe instead of teaching our kids "guns are bad guns are bad," we should teach "this is a firearm, this is what it does, and don't ever point it at anything you don't intend to kill." Just a thought.

I agree. There seems to be a connection between fear and ignorance and banning guns.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 10:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(EastieTrekker @ Jan. 09 2013, 2:23 pm)
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(hbfa @ Jan. 09 2013, 2:38 pm)
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A quick look at the crime stats for that area indicate it's probably among the safest communities in all of America.

So was Newtown, CT...

True.  Evil can potentially raise its ugly head anywhere.
But so can african bee swarms, Haley's Comet and any other number of freak accidents.  So in my mind, statistics play a part in my personal preparations.

That aside, had every home in Newtown had a gun, would the community have been safer overall?  Would the tragedy at the school been prevented?  I'd say no to both.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 11:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 10 2013, 1:23 pm)
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I basically think that the firearm regulations are just fine the way they are, and the gap needs to be filled by parents, educators, mental health professionals, and firearm owners that take responsibility for their property (not leaving them accessible to just anyone).

I agree in principle but I also realize that those of us who feel this way are usually the parents who are involved with our kids, who pay attention to their friends, activities, etc.  I also think that our approach works most of the time.

What does alarm me, though, is that the profile of the kids (and I use the term loosely to include 20-something year-olds who are essentially still under the care of their parents) involved in these unimagineable mass shootings seem to come from families who would consider themselves "responsible gun owners" and/or have parents who, like me, felt that they knew their kids, were involved in their daily lives, etc.  If any red flags are raised, it seems to only be happening afterwards and only after a lot of digging by some ambitious journalist.

You point out the difficulty in identifying what new regulations would be constructive -- and I agree -- but, in the same token, it's also easy to say that "the gap needs to be filled by parents, educators, etc." without identifying who and how that should be done.  To me, it's just a variation of the "not my problem, so leave my guns alone" attitude that many gun-proponents seem to have.

I've heard/read testimony after testimony by the "responsible parent/gun-owner" who describe how they educate their kids to be good gun handlers and how they've had no issues or problems.  Fine.  But positive validation is easy.  When something is used the way it's supposed to be used, it works fine.  But we all know that's not reality.  Parents don't always pay attention, teachers don't always care, mental health professionals miss signs.  Even the most consciencious firearm owners can make mistakes, make bad judgement calls.  It happens, and I think that in designing the system, to not take these failures into account is not only naive, but also irresponsible.

I work in the auto industry, defining design processes for safety systems.  95% of the effort is in mitigating risks from driver misuse and unintended failures.  Imo, we can't have a gun safety system that relies on gun owners being perfect gun-owners all the time.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 1:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

+1

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