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wwwest 
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 2:49 pm |
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This is good to see, some leadership that supports a national organization for reasonable controls on guns that will make them less deadly in the hands of a mass killer.
Both Gabby and her husband are very charismatic people, and they both know the media attention game. I will be joining and sending them some money to support the President's proposed changes when they come along.
I know that what Biden and Obama propose will fall far short of what I think is needed and would be effective, but it will be the start of a trend in the right direction.
Mark Kelly woke up in the middle of the night in his hotel room in China and looked at his BlackBerry: Twenty children in Connecticut, all shot to death. He immediately called his wife thousands of miles away, Gabrielle Giffords.
“I said to her, ‘Gabby, we can’t just put out a statement anymore,’ ” Kelly recounted in an interview Tuesday. “Twenty first-graders and their teachers, murdered in a classroom. If we just talk about it, things won’t change. We need to try and help.”
With that, a couple who survived their own episode of gun violence decided to make themselves the new faces of the push to toughen the country’s gun laws. The astronaut and his wife — who as a Democratic congresswoman representing Arizona was shot in the head in 2011 outside a Tucson supermarket — announced on Tuesday, the second anniversary of the shooting, that they were forming their own political group to take on the powerful National Rifle Association.
Kelly said he and Giffords, both gun owners and Westerners supportive of the Second Amendment, would push for ambitious legislative changes in American’s gun laws: an assault weapons ban, universal background checks to close the “gun show loophole,” and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines like the one used to kill six people and wound Giffords and 13 others in Tucson.
“These are common-sense solutions,” Kelly said. “If you can just prevent one of these incidents from happening, isn’t it worth it?”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politic....ics_pop
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| Post Number: 2
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Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 624
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 3:23 pm |
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Good for Giffords and Kelly.
Obama to deliver an executive order ref. gun violence?
Specifically, what kind of order could he deliver?
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-d....51.html
"....WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama is "determined to take action" against gun violence and is considering executive orders aimed preventing attacks like last month's massacre at a Connecticut elementary school, Vice President Joe Biden said on Wednesday......"
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 3
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 09 2013, 6:52 pm |
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Remember all those right wingers who defended Ws right to expanded executive powers, tooth and nail, night and day?
Guess what?? 
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| Post Number: 4
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george of the j
Group: Members
Posts: 463
Joined: Apr. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 1:37 am |
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Can this new organization be refered to as the "Anti-gun Lobby"? The mainstream news media, which are biased toward gun control, refer to the NRA as the "Gun Lobby" because the word "lobby" carries a bad connotaion. Sarah Brady's organization, Handgun Control Inc., was never refered to as a "lobby" by the mainstream media.
---George
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| Post Number: 5
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Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 624
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 9:01 am |
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I'm OK with "Anti Assault Rifle" lobby and "Pro Assault Rifle" lobby.
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 6
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KenV
Group: Members
Posts: 5544
Joined: Mar. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 10 2013, 2:21 pm |
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I sincerely wish them success in setting up this organization. How so?
The Brady Handgun Control Inc organization, while enjoying widespread media support, has failed in pushing their legislative agenda. This new anti-gun organization will further divide the anti-gun forces and I believe this will likely have the effect of weakening them rather than strengthening them. I'm in favor of that.
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| Post Number: 7
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| Post Number: 8
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 1:08 pm |
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How about the Less Deadly Guns Lobby?
Gabby and Mark Kelly will do some very savvy media manipulation, on a level with the NRA, IMO.
And now they have an Administration that is willing to support sensible controls.
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| Post Number: 9
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3-gun.
Group: Members
Posts: 264
Joined: Feb. 2003
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Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 3:23 pm |
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No, I don't think so.
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"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA"
"MASTER in IDPA..."
"is like C Class in IPSC!"
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| Post Number: 10
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| Post Number: 11
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 9:47 pm |
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I really admire that level of dogma. Seriously, it is impressive that you would decide to join and contribute money to support the President’s proposed changes……BEFORE any details are announced.
Still wrong.
I am committing to support Gabby and her husband in their efforts to lobby for sensible gun controls.
I know that their proposed policies will be far beyond anything that Obama is willing to enact. I have a pretty realistic view of what Obama can get behind given the political climate, but that does not keep anyone from deciding to support a counter point to NRA extremism. YMMV
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| Post Number: 12
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
Posts: 3846
Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 10:13 pm |
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Let's just call it common sense. Count me in.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 13
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markinOhio
Group: Members
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 11 2013, 11:16 pm |
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Yep, freethough is way too cumbersome, let’s just label it as “common sense”, then it must be an absolute truth…especially if it is endorsed by those currently in power.
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| Post Number: 14
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 12:28 pm |
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Here is a link to the new organization. It seems to be growing by leaps and bounds, and they have some big dollar contributors already.
Perhaps we will finally have a public voice to counter the lobbying of the NRA and their support for the arms manufacturers.
The audacity of hope.
http://americansforresponsiblesolutions.org/
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| Post Number: 15
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ScotH
Group: Members
Posts: 1693
Joined: Feb. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:06 pm |
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I am not an NRA member. I have been in years past. Their perspective on many issues have not been one's that I align with.
Their membership enrollment is dramatically escalating as could be anticipated. There are two incentive programs presently in place. Their annual membership has been reduced from $35 to $25 and if you join they provide you with a $25 Bass Pro shop gift certificate. So effectively a free membership. Secondly their life time membership fee has been reduced from a $1000 to $300. New membership enrollment is estimated at 8000 a day. They obviously are gearing up for a legislative battle.
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| Post Number: 16
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hbfa
Group: Members
Posts: 7077
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:09 pm |
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And laughing all the way to the bank while doing it.
ETA: At least they're helping the economy by buying consumer products at the Bass Pro Shops.
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| Post Number: 17
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2330
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:12 pm |
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Fear mongering has always been very profitable and gun nuts are a fearful bunch.
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| Post Number: 18
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:32 pm |
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Here is some analysis of how and why the arms industry bankrolls the NRA:
Throughout its 142-year history, the National Rifle Association has portrayed itself as an advocate for the individual gun owner’s Second Amendment rights. In turn, the NRA relied on those gun owners, especially its 4 million or so members, to pressure lawmakers into carrying out its anti-gun control agenda.
In the last two decades, however, the deep-pocketed NRA has increasingly relied on the support of another constituency: the $12-billion-a-year gun industry, made up of manufacturers and sellers of firearms, ammunition and related wares. That alliance was sealed in 2005, when Congress, after heavy NRA lobbying, approved a measure that gave gunmakers and gun distributors broad, and unprecedented, immunity from a wave of liability lawsuits related to gun violence in America’s cities.
It was a turning point for both the NRA and the industry, both of which recognized the mutual benefits of a partnership. That same year, the NRA also launched a lucrative new fundraising drive to secure “corporate partners” that’s raked in millions from the gun industry to boost its operations.
But that alliance, which has grown even closer in recent years -- and includes ties both financial and personal, a Huffington Post examination has found -- has led to mounting questions from gun control advocates about the NRA's priorities. Is the nation’s most potent gun lobby mainly looking out for its base constituency, the estimated 80 million Americans who own a firearm? Or is it acting on behalf of those that make and sell those guns?
According to a 2012 poll conducted by GOP pollster Frank Luntz for Mayors Against Illegal Guns, 74 percent of NRA members support mandatory background checks for all gun purchases, a position that the NRA has stridently opposed. “There’s a big difference between the NRA’s rank and file and the NRA’s Washington lobbyists, who live and breathe for a different purpose,” Mark Glaze, the executive director of the gun control group, said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013....42.html
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| Post Number: 19
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2330
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:35 pm |
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Changes, the are a coming. Has this been posted?
Cerberus Capital Management has issued a press release that they no longer want to invest in the gun industry. Cerberus acquired Bushmaster, maker of the rifle used by the gunman at Sandy Hook, and merged the company with Freedom Group in 2006. The Freedom Group reported net sales of $677.3 million for the first nine months of 2012, a 20 percent increase compared to the same period last year.
In a press release Cerberus said, “It is apparent that the Sandy Hook tragedy was a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level.” Cerberus concluded that while it is not their “role to take positions, or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate, there are “actions that we as a firm can take.” The equity firm has decided to “immediately engage in the formal process” of selling their investment in Freedom Group.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-re....61.html
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| Post Number: 20
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 1:45 pm |
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Very good news. I hope that it spreads as quickly as the gun nut paranoia to buy up all avaliable ammo!
the funny thing is that most of the buyers already had a lifetime supply of ammo and multiple guns before this latest knee jerk reaction.
What a country!
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| Post Number: 21
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| Post Number: 22
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2330
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 3:31 pm |
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There was a time when conservatives didn't want women to vote.
There was a time when conservatives didn't want blacks to vote.
There was a time when conservatives didn't believe in interracial marriage.
There was a time when conservatives didn't want the schools integrated.
There as a time when conservatives wouldn't vote for a Catholic as president.
There was a time when conservatives wouldn't support a female as president.
Liberals pushed all of these issues and now only the most backwoods inbred right winger would take those positions.
In ten years Slinger, everything you believe in will be considered positions held only by out of touch white men on their deathbeds.
You can kick and scream all you want, but we're going to keep working to make the world a better place, whether you like it or not.
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| Post Number: 23
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gunslinger
Group: Members
Posts: 6031
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 4:44 pm |
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spoken like a true socialist.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 24
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| Post Number: 27
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 8:12 pm |
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(hbfa @ Jan. 12 2013, 7:52 pm)
QUOTE
(gunslinger @ Jan. 12 2013, 1:44 pm)
QUOTE spoken like a true socialist. Please explain.
He seems to struggle with the term.
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| Post Number: 28
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2330
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 12 2013, 9:14 pm |
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It's one of his go to buzz words when he doesn't know what else to say.
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| Post Number: 29
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gunslinger
Group: Members
Posts: 6031
Joined: Mar. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 13 2013, 7:59 am |
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(hbfa @ Jan. 12 2013, 7:52 pm)
QUOTE
(gunslinger @ Jan. 12 2013, 1:44 pm)
QUOTE spoken like a true socialist. Please explain.
He knows what's best for us and wants to limit our ability to decide for ourselves.
Stripping inalienable individual rights for the collective good is socialist.
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For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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| Post Number: 30
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Montecresto
Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
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Posted on: Jan. 13 2013, 8:17 am |
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(wwwest @ Jan. 09 2013, 6:52 pm)
QUOTE Remember all those right wingers who defended Ws right to expanded executive powers, tooth and nail, night and day? Guess what??
No, no, no. See, we all should have fought W's expanding EO's. this tit for tat is silly. What sane American wants to expand further a presidents solitary power in these ways.
NO EO's. govern by consensus, the American way. DO NOT support a presidents privilege to use EO'S just because you might agree with this one, you may not like the next one so much.
Check the history of EO'S, they have been used since Washington, but with alarming increase in the past 50 years. Not a favorable trend.
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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
