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Topic: NRA Wrong Again, Shocking isn't it?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 4:30 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The gun nuts and their big national lobbying group seem to be very mentally challenged when it comes to historical facts.  They make up hundreds of false quotes attributed to historical figures, especially the founding fathers, and then it turns out the claims about Nazi Germany banning guns is a complete falsehood!!  

Unfortunately for LaPierre et al., the notion that Hitler confiscated everyone’s guns is mostly bogus. And the ancillary claim that Jews could have stopped the Holocaust with more guns doesn’t make any sense at all if you think about it for more than a minute.

University of Chicago law professor Bernard Harcourt explored this myth in depth in a 2004 article published in the Fordham Law Review. As it turns out, the Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime. After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.

The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.


http://www.salon.com/2013....sletter


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 4:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


Bartov added that this misreading of history is not only intellectually dishonest, but also dangerous.  “I happen to have been a combat soldier and officer in the Israeli Defense Forces and I know what these assault rifles can do,” he said in an email.

He continued: “Their assertion that they need these guns to protect themselves from the government — as supposedly the Jews would have done against the Hitler regime — means not only that they are innocent of any knowledge and understanding of the past, but also that they are consciously or not imbued with the type of fascist or Bolshevik thinking that they can turn against a democratically elected government, indeed turn their guns on it, just because they don’t like its policies, its ideology, or the color, race and origin of its leaders.”



http://www.salon.com/2013....sletter


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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 4:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin....1162393

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 4:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

means not only that they are innocent of any knowledge and understanding of the past, but also that they are consciously or not imbued with the type of fascist or Bolshevik thinking that they can turn against a democratically elected government

I think the staggering ignorance of history that's perhaps the most telling in this entire debate. They are so easily led by an out of context quote on the internet as there appears to be almost no knowledge of history to be able to judge the merit of the things they are reading, and cutting and pasting links to.

You add to that an almost willful ignorance of the outside world and you have a dangerous mix where they will believe almost anything they are told that supports their desire to own an assault rifle.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 5:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You can see the ignorance of even more contemporary US history when you hear/see some of
these same right-wingers character positions of today's democrats and in particular Obama
as "far leftist" or "socialist" or "marxist" when it comes to tax policy(thinking that
taxes under Obama are absurdly high when they have been absurdly low since 1950), health
care(characterizing ObamaRomneyHeritageFoundationCare as "government run" and "socialist"
when it was based on past Republican ideas on health care) and countless other examples.

In large part I think it comes down to living in this right-wing entertainment complex.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 15 2013, 5:04 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If Reagan returned today and made the exact same policy decisions he made in the 80's, he'd be called a socialist by the tea party/Ron Paul types.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You left part of that article out

The important part

"The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns"

Which is kind of the point.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not the point that you gun nuts have been making though, and not a point that was relevant to the historical experience.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hmm, look at this, turns out the NRA supported pretty much the same policy as the Nazi government in the 1930's:

While today’s NRA takes hardline positions against even the most modest gun control measures, this was not always the case.  Throughout its history, the NRA supported gun control, including restrictions on gun ownership, and was not focused on the Second Amendment.

But the organization had a change of heart in the 1970s when the Black Panthers advocated for an individual right to bear arms. Ironically, the Panthers were the founders of the modern-day gun rights movement, which became the purview of predominantly white, rural conservatives.

The ambiguous reading of the Second Amendment notwithstanding, gun control is as old as the Republic, and the amendment was not interpreted as an absolute in the early days of the United States.  There was a balance between individual rights and public safety.


http://thegrio.com/2013....anthers


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Jan. 17 2013, 5:26 pm)
QUOTE
You left part of that article out

The important part

"The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns"

Which is kind of the point.

No billBab, as I pointed out when you took that view in the thread I started on this, the talking
points on the right go way beyond just The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted
classes from owning guns


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's a funny old world, neh??

With the Black Panther Party and other left wing gun control foes out of the picture, the new hardline NRA feared the government would similarly take away their guns.  Further, these predominantly white and conservative gun rights advocates in the NRA shared the Panthers’ distrust of the police.

Ironically, Ronald Reagan—who had signed the Mulford Act to disarm the Black Panther Party—changed his stance and advocated for guns as a defense against state power.

“So isn’t it better for the people to own arms than to risk enslavement by power-hungry men or nations? The founding fathers thought so,” Reagan said in a radio commentary in 1975.

In 1980, the NRA endorsed Reagan for president, the first such endorsement by the group.  On March 30, 1981, President Reagan and three others were shot and injured by John Hinckley, Jr., 25, outside the Washington Hilton Hotel.


http://thegrio.com/2013....2


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10 replies since Jan. 15 2013, 4:30 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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