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markinOhio 
Group: Members
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 3:30 pm |
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Where does it go?
http://www.usatoday.com/story....1837809
"Those are not firearms that anyone needs or should have, but we don't think it will have much impact on gun crime, while other things the president proposes will," said Matt Bennett, a senior vice president at the centrist Democratic group Third Way. "I worry that it's going to dominate the debate when it shouldn't. It's the tail wagging the dog.”
I completely agree. If they really want to have an impact on gun violence, they need to concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, and not the color of the guns.
Event though I personally only want one to become law, It would be refreshing to see three bills, each solely dedicated to each of the three aspects (assault weapons, magazine capacity, universal background checks).
I suspect that there will be an all-inclusive bill that will fail because it includes all three; or even worse, they will try to stick it into the Farm Bill or some other totally unrelated piece of legislation. When it fails, you will have to give each party equal blame because neither side has the capacity to compromise.
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george of the j
Group: Members
Posts: 463
Joined: Apr. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 4:49 pm |
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Good point about separating the three proposals. And no pork added to any of them, either.
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39588
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 4:53 pm |
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No pork? How about some nice Alaskan fish bait?
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| Post Number: 4
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 5:18 pm |
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Here is the beginning of the data that backs up what many here have been trying to communicate. There are going to be new, more restrictive gun controls enacted, either by this Congress, or the next one if the right wingers hang tough and cry no, no no.
Sensible controls that do not effect hunting and personal safety guns would be easy to achieve, right now. Stonewall long enough and the heavy hand of outraged citezenry, who mostly have no interest in guns for hunting or personal safety, will prevail, and that will be much worse, IMO.
It is the reverse slippery slope that sensible gun owners need to beware of at this point. Obviously the NRA will never back down, due to their deal with the arms manufacturers, and that may lead to disaster for NRA members.
The public heavily favors universal background checks for gun buyers, and a majority of Americans approve of a federal database to track gun sales as well as a ban on "assault style weapons," a new poll from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press shows.
In the survey, 85 percent of respondents said they favor background checks for private and gun show sales, while only 12 percent say they oppose such checks.
Sixty-seven percent of adults surveyed approve of a federal database to track gun sales, the poll indicated. A majority -- 55 percent -- back a ban on assault weapons, with 40 percent saying they don't approve of the ban, a measure for which President Barack Obama again voiced support during a press conference today. (The partisan breakdown, however, is stark, with seven in ten Democrats backing the ban compared to just 44 percent of Republicans.)
A major gender gap also remains on the gun issue; women favor an assault weapons ban by almost 20 percentage points over men. Women are also far less likely to support the idea of encouraging more gun ownership among teachers and other school officials.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news....ks?lite
Hopefully more Republicans will learn to count before we all lose out on our gun rights.
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BackpackHNTR
Group: Members
Posts: 459
Joined: Apr. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 5:23 pm |
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The beginning of a Republican clean sweep in both the Senate, and house, in two years, then a super majority in four.
All because we decided to address the pig smell by washing the cow.
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| Post Number: 6
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jcb
Group: Members
Posts: 3944
Joined: Dec. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 5:30 pm |
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(BackpackHNTR @ Jan. 16 2013, 5:23 pm)
QUOTE The beginning of a Republican clean sweep in both the Senate, and house, in two years, then a super majority in four.
All because we decided to address the pig smell by washing the cow.
Heard that after the ACA. How did that work out for you. A majority of Americans support some sort of restrictive change in our current gun laws. If normal "gun people" would put in some input rather than just letting the NRA speak for them, they might not be as bad as you fear, but if you refuse to sit at the table and have no part of the dialogue, other than "from my cold, dead hands", don't cry if something happens you dont like.
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We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4064
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 5:34 pm |
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LOL
With public opinion at 85% and 67% AGAINST your position, this will be the big sprinboard to election success??
I knew from November that the right wingers couldn't count, but that is ridiculous!!
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SW Mtn backpacker
Born to hike, forced to work ...
Group: Members
Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 10:57 pm |
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Enhanced background checks to make sure bad guys don't get guns make sense. The rest of it is going through Congress and I'm see a bunch of fireworks with little fire. To quote the Prez:
"But I tell you, the only way we can change is if the American people demand it," said Obama. "We are going to need voices in those areas and congressional districts where the tradition of gun ownership is strong."
"It can't just be the usual suspects," he continued. "This will not happen unless the American people demand it." - today "
Meaning it needs to go through the House, Senate, staff, etc ...
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Usually Southwest and then some.
In wildness is the preservation of the world. - Henry Thoreau
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markinOhio
Group: Members
Posts: 354
Joined: Feb. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 7:04 am |
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Middle America has been so marginalized on the national level that the Democrats were able to re-elect a standing President with 8% unemployment. There is no reason to believe that this trend will change anytime soon.
However, middle America can still have influence in Congress, and I see that as the only way to avoid further erosion of private gun ownership.
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TehipiteTom
Group: Members
Posts: 5279
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 11:58 am |
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(markinOhio @ Jan. 16 2013, 12:30 pm)
QUOTE Where does it go? http://www.usatoday.com/story....1837809"Those are not firearms that anyone needs or should have, but we don't think it will have much impact on gun crime, while other things the president proposes will," said Matt Bennett, a senior vice president at the centrist Democratic group Third Way. "I worry that it's going to dominate the debate when it shouldn't. It's the tail wagging the dog.” I completely agree. If they really want to have an impact on gun violence, they need to concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, and not the color of the guns. Event though I personally only want one to become law, It would be refreshing to see three bills, each solely dedicated to each of the three aspects (assault weapons, magazine capacity, universal background checks). I suspect that there will be an all-inclusive bill that will fail because it includes all three; or even worse, they will try to stick it into the Farm Bill or some other totally unrelated piece of legislation. When it fails, you will have to give each party equal blame because neither side has the capacity to compromise.
I don't think any bills have been written yet, but my understanding is that they'll probably be introducing them separately rather than combined in a single bill. That would make more sense, since universal background checks have a very good chance of passing. (I think the high-capacity magazine ban has a chance, but not a great one; the assault weapon ban, which is the least important of the three, is unlikely.)
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If tautologies are outlawed, only outlaws will use tautologies.
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39588
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 12:16 pm |
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But that somewhat diminishes the fact the Congress really likes their Christmas Tree Bills: taking the popular or mandatory to pass "tree" bill and quietly slipping lots and lots of presents or less tasty treats under it's wide, welcoming branches.
Like Coburn's guns in national parks amendment to a bill about credit cards. Or Alaskan and Floridian FISH federal "aid" in a bill dubbed a "Superstorm Sandy victim relief bill".
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