SUBSCRIBE | NEWSLETTERS | MAPS | VIDEOS | BLOGS | MARKETPLACE | CONTESTS
TRY BACKPACKER FREE!
SUBSCRIBE NOW and get
2 Free Issues and 3 Free Gifts!
Full Name:
Address 1:
Address 2:
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Email: (required)
If I like it and decide to continue, I'll pay just $12.00, and receive a full one-year subscription (9 issues in all), a 73% savings off the newsstand price! If for any reason I decide not to continue, I'll write "cancel" on the invoice and owe nothing.
Your subscription includes 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Or click here to pay now and get 2 extra issues
Offer valid in US only.


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: It's just never too early, To startvrighingbelevtions< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43875
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 8:37 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

At least some of the Pennsylvania Republican legislature members and the Republican governor seem to think so: distribute electoral college votes, not proportionately which I would agree is fairer thn winner take all, but rather by Congressional District! So the gerrymandering would screw with the selection of the Preident of the United Sates.

Disgusted.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS....pn=0083

As reported in
http://thinkprogress.org/justice....bile=wt
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43875
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 16 2013, 8:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow did I mess with that subtitle not-proof reading!

Sigh.

"To start rigging elections"
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 3
Montanalonewolf Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mar. 2010
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 8:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why would there be a problem with electors voting for the candidate who received the most votes in their district? It would have the same end result as doing away with the EC and a direct election by the voters.

--------------
If you are free to be a Liberal- Thank a person with a gun.

Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 4
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 9:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Because the smaller you make the electorally awarded jurisdiction the larger disparity between popular vote and electoral vote. Gerrymandering on a national levels would have created a 5 percentage pt popular vote edge for Obama yet Romney would have won the electoral college by a margin similar to the House of Representatives ratio. You would see even more congressional districts set up as 3 with 55/45  R/D   and 1 with 80/20 R/D.

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
Land Rover Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6597
Joined: Sep. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 10:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 17 2013, 8:23 am)
QUOTE
Why would there be a problem with electors voting for the candidate who received the most votes in their district? It would have the same end result as doing away with the EC and a direct election by the voters.

Their blatant attempt to fix the last election having failed they're moving onto the next step.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 6
Montecresto Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(jcb @ Jan. 17 2013, 9:55 am)
QUOTE
Because the smaller you make the electorally awarded jurisdiction the larger disparity between popular vote and electoral vote. Gerrymandering on a national levels would have created a 5 percentage pt popular vote edge for Obama yet Romney would have won the electoral college by a margin similar to the House of Representatives ratio. You would see even more congressional districts set up as 3 with 55/45  R/D   and 1 with 80/20 R/D.

This is because the GOP  can't win elections anymore, they haven't at least since 2000'

--------------
Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
jcb Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 4115
Joined: Dec. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 11:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Meant to make the 1 district 80/20 D/R on above post.

--------------
We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 8
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43875
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 12:02 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 17 2013, 5:23 am)
QUOTE
Why would there be a problem with electors voting for the candidate who received the most votes in their district? It would have the same end result as doing away with the EC and a direct election by the voters.

No not at all like state wide popular allocation, as the article explains since the districts aren't uniformly equal in population, sending "winner take all" down a level just creates a different sort of distortion. One carefully crafted in the case of Pennsylvania to shift the electoral total to Republicans who, while not being the state's overall majority have a an advantage in certain districts due to the concentration of Democratic party member actual voters in particular districts. Somewhat due to careful gerrymandering and somewhat due to the diversity of the state, a lot of big rural area and some equally large population urban areas.

Proportional allocation at the state level negates the cute game playing on the district level the legislatures like to engage in.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 9
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6756
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just another way for the rednecks to try and sustain their grip on power, even though they are becoming a smaller and smaller minority.

It won't happen, so sleep tight.  Elections do count!


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 10
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43875
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Jan. 17 2013, 2:07 pm)
QUOTE
Just another way for the rednecks to try and sustain their grip on power, even though they are becoming a smaller and smaller minority.

It won't happen, so sleep tight.  Elections do count!

"rednecks" probably grow most of the food you eat.

Just a reminder.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 11
buzzards Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 2051
Joined: Apr. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Probably just coincidence that the two states that are not winner take all, (ME and NE) use the same formula that PA is considering. Are they rigging the vote? Or does this only apply in a state where the urban areas lean much more left, while the rural and suburban areas lean more right?
BTW, the statement about some districts being more populous than others is not correct. Every census congressional districts must be realigned to be as equal in population as possible. And courts have been pretty strict on the one-man-one-vote standard over the years.
Back in the 50's, most state legislature districts were based on counties, which kept a rural stanglehold over state houses-which was often used as a tool by rural democrats to keep those snotty, citified Republicans in their place. But the courts put the kibosh on that. Times have changed since the 50's I guess.
So a lot depends on perspective. One mans voter suppression is another mans routine redistricting. And gerrymandering has a long, proud, bipartisan history. Which is why voting at the state level matters.


--------------
Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10727
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Despite Obama winning the popular vote by almost 5 million votes, under this kind of
application of Gerrymandering to presidential elections in every state, Romney would have
won by  276-262.


The GOP’s redistricting successes enabled Republicans to maintain their House majority, even
though the Democrats got more votes. If every state awarded its electoral votes by these
gerrymandered congressional districts, Romney would have won by a 276-262 margin, despite
Obama’s popular vote margin, David Wasserman, the nonpartisan Cook Political Report’s House
expert, calculated.


http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion....tes.ece

The way to look at this is in the same way as all the voter suppression tactics which is that
Republicans know they don't have a popular message for most Americans so the next best thing
is to use the power of the government(remember now according to Republicans they are the
"small government" party) to configure our election system in their favor so they can win.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 13
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10727
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Jan. 17 2013, 5:15 pm)
QUOTE
Probably just coincidence that the two states that are not winner take all, (ME and NE) use the same formula that PA is considering. Are they rigging the vote? Or does this only apply in a state where the urban areas lean much more left, while the rural and suburban areas lean more right?
BTW, the statement about some districts being more populous than others is not correct. Every census congressional districts must be realigned to be as equal in population as possible. And courts have been pretty strict on the one-man-one-vote standard over the years.
Back in the 50's, most state legislature districts were based on counties, which kept a rural stanglehold over state houses-which was often used as a tool by rural democrats to keep those snotty, citified Republicans in their place. But the courts put the kibosh on that. Times have changed since the 50's I guess.
So a lot depends on perspective. One mans voter suppression is another mans routine redistricting. And gerrymandering has a long, proud, bipartisan history. Which is why voting at the state level matters.

The recent gerrymandering by Republicans isn't like your standard Gerrmandering of the past.
Also Republicans in the last two elections have had a HUGE gerrmandering advantage over
Democrats


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
High_Sierra_Fan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 43875
Joined: Aug. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 17 2013, 5:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(buzzards @ Jan. 17 2013, 2:15 pm)
QUOTE
Probably just coincidence that the two states that are not winner take all, (ME and NE) use the same formula that PA is considering. Are they rigging the vote? Or does this only apply in a state where the urban areas lean much more left, while the rural and suburban areas lean more right?
BTW, the statement about some districts being more populous than others is not correct. Every census congressional districts must be realigned to be as equal in population as possible. And courts have been pretty strict on the one-man-one-vote standard over the years.
Back in the 50's, most state legislature districts were based on counties, which kept a rural stanglehold over state houses-which was often used as a tool by rural democrats to keep those snotty, citified Republicans in their place. But the courts put the kibosh on that. Times have changed since the 50's I guess.
So a lot depends on perspective. One mans voter suppression is another mans routine redistricting. And gerrymandering has a long, proud, bipartisan history. Which is why voting at the state level matters.

Interesting, as of the 2000 census redistricting there's a variance of about 200,000 over the distribution of California congressional districts. An underlying force behind the recent redistricting reform legislation.

Given the dynamics of demographic changes over time anything less than the full state taken as a whole is, to my view, "rigging" the election away from reflecting the state's voters overall input at the least and given previous statements of intent to rig given by PA state Republican legislative leaders (in reference to the Voter Photo ID law of that state) it's reasonable to presume that hasn't changed.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 15
Dennis The Menace Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 10727
Joined: Apr. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 23 2013, 10:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So Virginia is where the power hungry Republicans have tried to implement the first step in trying to apply
Gerrymandering to the presidential election when Republicans took advantage Of Democrat Henry Marsh attending
the presidential inauguration thus giving Republicana a 20-19 majority to ram through a bill.

http://www.slate.com/blogs....ts.html

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013....ion.php

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local....ry.html


What is laughable is that one of the Virgina Republicans defended on the grounds that "create a sixth majority
black Senate  district in Southside Virginia"(that is what redistricting does. It bunches as much as possible
those of the opposing party in some district so there will be less of the opposing party in other districts so
that those districts flip in your party's direct. Suffice to say the result of this redistricing is to give
REpublicans more districts)

lOOK to many other states run by Republicans at the state level who have been voting for Democrats at the national
level to start doing this because Republicans generally can't win any other way than by using the power of government
to help them win.


--------------
politics is the art of taking advantage of mass stupidity and ignorance
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
wwwest Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 6756
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 10:33 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

But ... but ... but those Republicans hate dictatorial government, don't they??

Oh, I see, it is just like activist judges, they are very bad if the act against our crazy ideas, but very, very good if the act FOR our crazy ideas!!  Got it.


--------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

- John Kenneth Galbraith
Online
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
15 replies since Jan. 16 2013, 8:37 pm < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


 
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply It's just never too early
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code



Get 2 FREE Trial Issues and 3 FREE GIFTS
Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
The Best Trails in America
YES! Please send me my FREE trial issues of Backpacker
and my 3 FREE downloadable booklets.
Full Name:
City:
Address 1:
Zip Code:
State:
Address 2:
Email (required):
Free trial offer valid for US subscribers only. Canadian subscriptions | International subscriptions