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Ben2World 
Group: Members
Posts: 23917
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 3:52 pm |
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Arming campus police with guns is now inadequate! Some campuses are now stocking up on semiautomatic rifles!!
What's next? No campus left behind? Truly amazing the direction our society is heading. Sigh....
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 2
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm |
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Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?
"arm police with rifles"
A decision made BY the police.
"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:27 pm |
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Next we'll be reading they've installed smoke detectors and fire extinguishers.
What a world....
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| Post Number: 5
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hbfa
Group: Members
Posts: 7073
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:20 pm |
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If I was cop, and had all the responsibilities that go along with being a cop, I wouldn't want to face bad guys armed with rifles when I only had a pistol. And arming law enforcement with high powered rifles is quite common. I'll bet your local cops have them.
Remember the North Hollywood shootout? It's not fair to ask cops to go up against rifles with handguns.
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23917
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:55 pm |
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I am sure they are stored carefully, YG. The issue is not that cops are opting for more powerful, semiautomatic rifles. The issue is there is now a need for them!! This is what I meant above -- the direction our civil society is heading...
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 9
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wycanislatrans
Group: Members
Posts: 2268
Joined: Nov. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:08 pm |
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The shooting at Columbine may have ended with much less tradgedy if the SRO Officer had a rifle.
EVERY officer should have a rifle or at least a long gun.
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| Post Number: 10
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39564
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:14 pm |
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(yosemite girl @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:44 pm)
QUOTE Like I said in another thread somewhere...we had campus police that was an assigned officer from the city police department. He had a rifle, semi-auto, in his vehicle.
If these are cities and/or districts that do not supply their police officers with what I've always known to be the standard compliment of firearms, then these districts/cities should do so. Should they be "stored" on campus, just randomly? No, unless they are in an officer's full-time dedicated office for his use.
I gather in this instance they're stored offsite at a central police armory and withdrawn daily by the responsible officers. Who've also been required to undergo further training.
Makes sense in its way as routine maintenance could be centrally provided and a central location would be more secure during off hours. A transport bag can be very low profile so the officer moving the rifle to the secure on site location would be unremarkable.
Provision for potential risks, like earthquake retrofitting and construction standards: better than the alternative which in the case of disregarding earthquake risks cost of thousands of children's lives within the recent past.....
wycanislatrans : and if I might add, the proper training, practice and policies in place to effectively use such.
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Ben2World
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:51 pm |
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(wycanislatrans @ Jan. 24 2013, 5:41 pm)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:14 pm)
QUOTE wycanislatrans : and if I might add, the proper training, practice and policies in place to effectively use such. Agreed, but no officer anywhere should be in the field or wearing a badge without such.
Not directed at you, Wy, but making general statements...
Some shooters might be the impulsive type, but plenty of others scheme and plan meticulously. No one here is saying that we shouldn't provide appropriate resources to LE. But we all need to be mindful that future batches of shooters will plan and up their weapons accordingly too. Is this really how we want things to play out on our school campuses (or workplace, or malls, or church parking lots)? 
Right now, upgrading and storing weapons on site seem to be the quicker, easier and more effective route. But I think as a society, so long as we fail to address the root social causes -- more guns and more ammo will be like piling on band aids -- hoping to prevent more bleeding -- but doing nothing about healing whatever wound below that keeps festering.
But reading the posts so far, folks aren't much interested in discussing "why" we are in the state we are in -- and would rather just focus on getting more guns and more ammo to "address the need at hand".
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
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Joined: Feb. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 9:05 pm |
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(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:33 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:52 pm)
QUOTE Ah. I begin to understand your delusional paranoia. Rifles ARE guns.
This is my rifle. This is my gun.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39564
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 11:41 pm |
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?
"arm police with rifles"
A decision made BY the police.
"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said." I don't understand. Cars and drink driving are just as deadly. Shouldn't we be arming them with a bottle of Jim Beam and the keys to their crown Victoria. Maybe we could put a kiddies swimming pool in the trunk of the car? I've also been told that assault rifles are just the same as other types of guns? So why are the taxpayers picking up the tab for giving them something that's no more effective than their sidearm? Or perhaps, just perhaps, all the other stuff in this vein that we've been hearing is a steaming pile of BS.
Well just toddle along and message the cops who made the decision then?
Don't forget to moisturize first.
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| Post Number: 17
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BackpackHNTR
Group: Members
Posts: 459
Joined: Apr. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 1:35 am |
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 9:11 pm)
QUOTE QUOTE The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said." But people protect people, not guns. Saying that these types of weapons are more effective is the same as saying that people get fat because they had a bigger spoon. I mean that's what I've been told incessantly for the past few weeks.
You are thick!
Don't you think you can fill your mouth faster with less effort with a bigger spoon compared to a small one? So yes it still holds true!
People kill people! They can only protect people when bad guys carrying guns are met with good guys carrying guns!
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HighGravity
Group: Members
Posts: 2324
Joined: Oct. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 7:52 am |
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(BackpackHNTR @ Jan. 25 2013, 1:35 am)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 9:11 pm)
QUOTE QUOTE The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said." But people protect people, not guns. Saying that these types of weapons are more effective is the same as saying that people get fat because they had a bigger spoon. I mean that's what I've been told incessantly for the past few weeks. You are thick! Don't you think you can fill your mouth faster with less effort with a bigger spoon compared to a small one? So yes it still holds true! People kill people! They can only protect people when bad guys carrying guns are met with good guys carrying guns!
Can you tell me the name of this cartoon you speak of where good vs bad is so easily distinguishable? I've been too busy paying attention to reality to keep up with children's shows.
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| Post Number: 19
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 8:02 am |
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 11:41 pm)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE
(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?
"arm police with rifles"
A decision made BY the police.
"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said." I don't understand. Cars and drink driving are just as deadly. Shouldn't we be arming them with a bottle of Jim Beam and the keys to their crown Victoria. Maybe we could put a kiddies swimming pool in the trunk of the car? I've also been told that assault rifles are just the same as other types of guns? So why are the taxpayers picking up the tab for giving them something that's no more effective than their sidearm? Or perhaps, just perhaps, all the other stuff in this vein that we've been hearing is a steaming pile of BS. Well just toddle along and message the cops who made the decision then? Don't forget to moisturize first.
So the police are wrong about this are they? A kiddies pool for every officer it is then?
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 8:10 am |
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Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?
And I'm really struggling on the spoon thing. I mean I've heard this, possibly from you, "Guns Kill ... Just Like Spoons Made Rosie O'Donnell Fat!".
So now you are telling me the type of spoon she used was important and contributed to the total number of pounds she put on?
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4795
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:21 am |
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(Drift Woody @ Jan. 24 2013, 7:05 pm)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:33 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:52 pm)
QUOTE Ah. I begin to understand your delusional paranoia. Rifles ARE guns.
We never bought into that idiotic jingle in Gunnery School or while I was a Gunner's Mate, range officer and firearms instructor.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:43 am |
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(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 9:29 am)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
QUOTE Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema? You are. Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun. A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.
So they are more effective in the hands of a cop but no more effective in the hands of a deranged killer? How do they get this mystical powers of transformation?
I apologize for the fact the magical world of self-delusion that absolves gun owners of any degree of responsibility that comes with their freedoms is so confusing to me.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4795
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:47 am |
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 7:43 am)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 9:29 am)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
QUOTE Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema? You are. Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun. A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable. So they are more effective in the hands of a cop but no more effective in the hands of a deranged killer? How do they get this mystical powers of transformation?
Deranged killers tend to "spray and pray". Cops aim.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 25
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Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 624
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 10:22 am |
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The GOP's defeat in the 2012 election was due in large part to a self-inflicted wound.
They chose to not distance themselves from extreme elements within their party.
Gun-rights folks, despite the political clout they currently wield, seem destined to the same fate for the same reason. Maybe not during Obama's 2nd term, but sooner or later.
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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Pathfinder1
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 11:29 am |
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Hi...
Does anyone remember the Cold War...?? I do...I was there.
The reason why the USSR and the USA never 'pushed the buttons' and mutually demolished the earth was because we both had the most powerful weapons in the world...!!
Because of that, neither of us wanted to be 'first' to push the buttons. Viola...the world was saved...!!
Even the FBI learned the hard way...several decades ago in Florida...when several Agents were killed because the 'bad guys' outgunned them. They upgraded their weapons shortly thereafter.
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Drift Woody
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 12:01 pm |
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Pathfinder1, for your Cold War analogy to apply, once the FBI armed themselves equivalent to the bad guys, neither side would dare use the weapons.
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American proverb
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Land Rover
Group: Members
Posts: 6529
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 12:47 pm |
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So we're now all involved in an arms race in the hope of creating a "MAD" situation?
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39564
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 1:28 pm |
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(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:29 am)
QUOTE
(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
QUOTE Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema? You are. Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun. A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.
Yes, in a potentially crowded school setting effective control is a key goal.
As is dealing with the threat as efficiently and rapidly as possible given the otherwise continued threat to innocents so I'd judge a shoulder firearm would be preferred in even in response to a handgun armed intruder.
I tend to wonder if when people of that opposed mindset go shopping for a fire extinguisher they ask for "something ineffective"? Like those construction codes in Sichuan province for those schools: sure hope they never get tested but that's NO reason to have built unsafe school buildings and so leaving those children to die when the threat arose. Or as one might say: when diluted concrete and undersize rebar are not enough....
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
