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Topic: When Guns are Not Enough...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 3:52 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Arming campus police with guns is now inadequate!  Some campuses are now stocking up on semiautomatic rifles!!

What's next?  No campus left behind?  Truly amazing the direction our society is heading.  Sigh....


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?

"arm police with rifles"

A decision made BY the police.

"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.

The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:00 pm)
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Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?

"arm police with rifles"

A decision made BY the police.

"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.

The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."

The rifles are merely symptomatic of a deeper malaise.  The question is, always, what's driving this need?  More than which entity made the decision, is why this perceived need?  That's what I mean by stating that our society is heading down a bad direction.  The police didn't make the decision because they want newer, meaner toys.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Next we'll be reading they've installed smoke detectors and fire extinguishers.

What a world....
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If I was cop, and had all the responsibilities that go along with being a cop, I wouldn't want to face bad guys armed with rifles when I only had a pistol.  And arming law enforcement with high powered rifles is quite common.  I'll bet your local cops have them.

Remember the North Hollywood shootout?  It's not fair to ask cops to go up against rifles with handguns.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:52 pm)
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Arming campus police with guns is now inadequate!  Some campuses are now stocking up on semiautomatic rifles!!

Ah. I begin to understand your delusional paranoia.

Rifles ARE guns.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Like I said in another thread somewhere...we had campus police that was an assigned officer from the city police department. He had a rifle, semi-auto, in his vehicle.

If these are cities and/or districts that do not supply their police officers with what I've always known to be the standard compliment of firearms, then these districts/cities should do so. Should they be "stored" on campus, just randomly? No, unless they are in an officer's full-time dedicated office for his use.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am sure they are stored carefully, YG.  The issue is not that cops are opting for more powerful, semiautomatic rifles.  The issue is there is now a need for them!!  This is what I meant above -- the direction our civil society is heading...

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The shooting at Columbine may have ended with much less tradgedy if the SRO Officer had a rifle.

EVERY officer should have a rifle or at least a long gun.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(yosemite girl @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:44 pm)
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Like I said in another thread somewhere...we had campus police that was an assigned officer from the city police department. He had a rifle, semi-auto, in his vehicle.

If these are cities and/or districts that do not supply their police officers with what I've always known to be the standard compliment of firearms, then these districts/cities should do so. Should they be "stored" on campus, just randomly? No, unless they are in an officer's full-time dedicated office for his use.

I gather in this instance they're stored offsite at a central police armory and withdrawn daily by the responsible officers. Who've also been required to undergo further training.

Makes sense in its way as routine maintenance could be centrally provided and a central location would be more secure during off hours. A transport bag can be very low profile so the officer moving the rifle to the secure on site location would be unremarkable.

Provision for potential risks, like earthquake retrofitting and construction standards: better than the alternative which in the case of disregarding earthquake risks cost of thousands of children's lives within the recent past.....

wycanislatrans : and if I might add, the proper training, practice and policies in place to effectively use such.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:14 pm)
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wycanislatrans : and if I might add, the proper training, practice and policies in place to effectively use such.

Agreed, but no officer anywhere should be in the field or wearing a badge without such.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wycanislatrans @ Jan. 24 2013, 5:41 pm)
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:14 pm)
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wycanislatrans : and if I might add, the proper training, practice and policies in place to effectively use such.

Agreed, but no officer anywhere should be in the field or wearing a badge without such.

Not directed at you, Wy, but making general statements...

Some shooters might be the impulsive type, but plenty of others scheme and plan meticulously.  No one here is saying that we shouldn't provide appropriate resources to LE.  But we all need to be mindful that future batches of shooters will plan and up their weapons accordingly too.  Is this really how we want things to play out on our school campuses (or workplace, or malls, or church parking lots)?  ???

Right now, upgrading and storing weapons on site seem to be the quicker, easier and more effective route.  But I think as a society, so long as we fail to address the root social causes -- more guns and more ammo will be like piling on band aids -- hoping to prevent more bleeding -- but doing nothing about healing whatever wound below that keeps festering.

But reading the posts so far, folks aren't much interested in discussing "why" we are in  the state we are in -- and would rather just focus on getting more guns and more ammo to "address the need at hand".


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 9:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:33 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:52 pm)
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Arming campus police with guns is now inadequate!  Some campuses are now stocking up on semiautomatic rifles!!

Ah. I begin to understand your delusional paranoia.

Rifles ARE guns.

This is my rifle. This is my gun.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 11:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm)
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Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?

"arm police with rifles"

A decision made BY the police.

"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.

The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."

I don't understand. Cars and drink driving are just as deadly. Shouldn't we be arming them with a bottle of Jim Beam and the keys to their crown Victoria. Maybe we could put a kiddies swimming pool in the trunk of the car?

I've also been told that assault rifles are just the same as other types of guns? So why are the taxpayers picking up the tab for giving them something that's no more effective than their sidearm?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, all the other stuff in this vein that we've been hearing is a steaming pile of BS.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 11:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."


But people protect people, not guns. Saying that these types of weapons are more effective is the same as saying that people get fat because they had a bigger spoon. I mean that's what I've been told incessantly for the past few weeks.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 11:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE
Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?

"arm police with rifles"

A decision made BY the police.

"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.

The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."

I don't understand. Cars and drink driving are just as deadly. Shouldn't we be arming them with a bottle of Jim Beam and the keys to their crown Victoria. Maybe we could put a kiddies swimming pool in the trunk of the car?

I've also been told that assault rifles are just the same as other types of guns? So why are the taxpayers picking up the tab for giving them something that's no more effective than their sidearm?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, all the other stuff in this vein that we've been hearing is a steaming pile of BS.

Well just toddle along and message the cops who made the decision then?

Don't forget to moisturize first.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 1:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 9:11 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."


But people protect people, not guns. Saying that these types of weapons are more effective is the same as saying that people get fat because they had a bigger spoon. I mean that's what I've been told incessantly for the past few weeks.

You are thick!

Don't you think you can fill your mouth faster with less effort with a bigger spoon compared to a small one? So yes it still holds true!

People kill people! They can only protect people when bad guys carrying guns are met with good guys carrying guns!
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 7:52 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BackpackHNTR @ Jan. 25 2013, 1:35 am)
QUOTE

(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 9:11 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."


But people protect people, not guns. Saying that these types of weapons are more effective is the same as saying that people get fat because they had a bigger spoon. I mean that's what I've been told incessantly for the past few weeks.

You are thick!

Don't you think you can fill your mouth faster with less effort with a bigger spoon compared to a small one? So yes it still holds true!

People kill people! They can only protect people when bad guys carrying guns are met with good guys carrying guns!

Can you tell me the name of this cartoon you speak of where good vs bad is so easily distinguishable? I've been too busy paying attention to reality to keep up with children's shows.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 8:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 11:41 pm)
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 24 2013, 8:07 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 4:00 pm)
QUOTE
Was there some portion of the word "POLICE" that you found especially confusing?

"arm police with rifles"

A decision made BY the police.

"Fontana Unified School District police Chief Billy Green said the decision to purchase the weapons was not spurred by a specific event.

The rifles are designed to increase shooting accuracy and provide the 14 school officers with more effective power against assailants, particularly those wearing wearing body armor, Green said."

I don't understand. Cars and drink driving are just as deadly. Shouldn't we be arming them with a bottle of Jim Beam and the keys to their crown Victoria. Maybe we could put a kiddies swimming pool in the trunk of the car?

I've also been told that assault rifles are just the same as other types of guns? So why are the taxpayers picking up the tab for giving them something that's no more effective than their sidearm?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, all the other stuff in this vein that we've been hearing is a steaming pile of BS.

Well just toddle along and message the cops who made the decision then?

Don't forget to moisturize first.

So the police are wrong about this are they? A kiddies pool for every officer it is then?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 8:10 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?

And I'm really struggling on the spoon thing. I mean I've heard this, possibly from you, "Guns Kill ... Just Like Spoons Made Rosie O'Donnell Fat!".

So now you are telling me the type of spoon she used was important and contributed to the total number of pounds she put on?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Drift Woody @ Jan. 24 2013, 7:05 pm)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 24 2013, 6:33 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Jan. 24 2013, 1:52 pm)
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Arming campus police with guns is now inadequate!  Some campuses are now stocking up on semiautomatic rifles!!

Ah. I begin to understand your delusional paranoia.

Rifles ARE guns.

This is my rifle. This is my gun.

We never bought into that idiotic jingle in Gunnery School or while I was a Gunner's Mate, range officer and firearms instructor.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
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Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?

You are.

Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun.

A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 9:29 am)
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
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Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?

You are.

Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun.

A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.

So they are more effective in the hands of a cop but no more effective in the hands of a deranged killer? How do they get this mystical powers of transformation?

I apologize for the fact the magical world of self-delusion that absolves gun owners of any degree of responsibility that comes with their freedoms is so confusing to me.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 7:43 am)
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(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 9:29 am)
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
QUOTE
Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?

You are.

Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun.

A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.

So they are more effective in the hands of a cop but no more effective in the hands of a deranged killer? How do they get this mystical powers of transformation?

Deranged killers tend to "spray and pray". Cops aim.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 10:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The GOP's defeat in the 2012 election was due in large part  to a self-inflicted wound.

They chose to not distance themselves from extreme elements within their party.

Gun-rights folks, despite the political clout they currently wield, seem destined to the same fate for the same reason.  Maybe not during Obama's 2nd term, but sooner or later.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 11:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi...


Does anyone remember the Cold War...?? I do...I was there.

The reason why the USSR and the USA never 'pushed the buttons' and mutually demolished the earth was because we both had the most powerful weapons in the world...!!

Because of that, neither of us wanted to be 'first' to push the buttons. Viola...the world was saved...!!

Even the FBI learned the hard way...several decades ago in Florida...when several Agents were killed because the 'bad guys' outgunned them. They upgraded their weapons shortly thereafter.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Pathfinder1, for your Cold War analogy to apply, once the FBI armed themselves equivalent to the bad guys, neither side would dare use the weapons.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 12:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So we're now all involved in an arms race in the hope of creating a "MAD" situation?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 12:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Pathfinder1 @ Jan. 25 2013, 11:29 am)
QUOTE
The reason why the USSR and the USA never 'pushed the buttons' and mutually demolished the earth was because we both had the most powerful weapons in the world...!!

Is this what you have in mind?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/426519
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 1:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:29 am)
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(Land Rover @ Jan. 25 2013, 6:10 am)
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Well I must be thick. I frankly just don't comprehend how assault rifles are more effective in the hands of police and not in any way more effective in the hands of a deranged killer roaming through an elementary school or cinema?

You are.

Assault weapons are more effective against other assault weapons than is a handgun.

A 12ga would be even more effective against the shooter(s) but the collateral damage would be unacceptable.

Yes, in a potentially crowded school setting effective control is a key goal.

As is dealing with the threat as efficiently and rapidly as possible given the otherwise continued threat to innocents so I'd judge a shoulder firearm would be preferred in even in response to a handgun armed intruder.

I tend to wonder if when people of that opposed mindset go shopping for a fire extinguisher they ask for "something ineffective"? Like those construction codes in Sichuan province for those schools: sure hope they never get tested but that's NO reason to have built unsafe school buildings and so leaving those children to die when the threat arose. Or as one might say: when diluted concrete and undersize rebar are not enough....
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