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hiroshimajaro082 
Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: Feb. 2012
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 4:47 pm |
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OSD announced the lifting of the ban on females in ground combat element positions within the military. I've been following this in the Marine Corps Times and know all the the test cases @ Infantry Officers Course have either recycled or DOR'd. My personal opinion is firmly against the lifting of the ban and there are probably a lot of platoon sergeants out there shaking their heads about now. Curios to hear what you all think, especially all the other veterans. Cheers!
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"Some people feel the rain, while others just get wet."
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| Post Number: 2
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 5:06 pm |
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Long overdue, finally getting over the biases that make our armed forces less efficient, IMO.
The same criticisms and worries were voiced about black soldiers, oriental soldiers, homosexual soldiers, and now female soldiers.
A lot of women are better at verbal communication than some men, and combat needs the best communication, the clearest planning and the most well organized coordination of just about any difficult task undertaken by humans.
Many women are very good at remaining calm and efficient under stress, i.e. trauma docs and emergency services dispachers. It is good that we will be finding and using skillful women in appropriate combat slots, IMO.
Need to work hard on sexual harrassment habits, though. Still having problems with that at the military academys. Will help to get some field grade women officers on the battlefield.
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| Post Number: 3
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 5:10 pm |
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Any adult who is fit for combat should be able to fight -- if he or she volunteers to.
My problem is still with our penchant for starting wars -- formally and informally. My problem is still with our the way we outspend the next 17 highest spending nations of the world combined! My problem is how "might is right" is consuming us -- and our nation.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 4
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JimInMD
Group: Members
Posts: 3112
Joined: Feb. 2011
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 5:38 pm |
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If the physical fitness standards are not changed, then there will be fewer complaints. If they are changed, then there will be problems.
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Checking out for a while, find me on FB.
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| Post Number: 5
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| Post Number: 6
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 5:58 pm |
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I do have one question though... in future wars, when our women combat soldiers are captured by our enemies -- or more likely, by people just defending themselves against our invasions -- will our government, our media and perhaps we ourselves make moral hay by denouncing their captors as somehow more barbarous than if they had "merely" captured our men?
I seem to recall back in the days of Desert Storm, that we showed particular concern when some of our women troops were captured...
In asking this, I am not questioning women's combat readiness, fortitude or toughness. I am questioning our society's double standards. Have we finally moved on?
I'd expect we show equal concern -- and not revert back to sexist concerns? But I suspect our government and our media will -- to exploit our emotions -- to better demonize those whom we invade.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 7
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buzzards
Group: Members
Posts: 1740
Joined: Apr. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 7:55 pm |
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The military already has a big problem-Adultery and fraternization are against the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That may be obsolete, but several high ranking officers have had their careers come to an end on that petard recently. And it's not just the high profile cases.
Sexual offenses among leading reasons for Court-Martials
That article deals with problems among officers,
Sometimes, you just can't fight biology-and young folks hormones:
(Old article, but the problem still exists)
Pregnant sailors on Aircraft Carrier causing problems
And now, females are being allowed on submarines, which typically stay submerged during their entire deployment. What is the cost, both monetary and in readiness to sail back to a port to put off a pregnant submariner, or arrange a mid-ocean pickup of same.
I have no doubts that some women can perform combat duties as well as men. I have significant doubts about the wisdom of placing young men and women together under combat conditions and expecting that there will not be massive issues relating to an activity that men and women have been engaging in even before we started going to war.
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Now shall I walk or shall I ride?
Ride, said pleasure,
Walk, Joy replied,
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| Post Number: 8
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wycanislatrans
Group: Members
Posts: 2257
Joined: Nov. 2005
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 8:14 pm |
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 24 2013, 3:41 pm)
QUOTE
(JimInMD @ Jan. 24 2013, 2:38 pm)
QUOTE If the physical fitness standards are not changed, then there will be fewer complaints. If they are changed, then there will be problems. Definitely agree. That's an area to tread carefully through.
I agree Jim, I have no problem with females serving as police, firefighters or military, but the fitness standards should be the same.
Girl pushups my @ss.
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| Post Number: 9
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buddero
Group: Members
Posts: 776
Joined: Jan. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 9:56 pm |
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(JimInMD @ Jan. 24 2013, 5:38 pm)
QUOTE If the physical fitness standards are not changed, then there will be fewer complaints. If they are changed, then there will be problems.
There you go.
Capture raises sexual abuse concerns. But I don't see a change in the trend of few troops captured in recent fighting. It'll have to be (BP-Censored)-to-the-wall fighting.
I think there'll be some bad-as women coming into the Corps and qualifying as Army Rangers and so on.
There are a lot of physically and mentally tough women around these days. It's really cool.
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Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty
If your cup is full, may it be again
Journal and links to refugees, backpacking, travel in Asia, photos, honky-tonk angels, other beautiful things...
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| Post Number: 10
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buddero
Group: Members
Posts: 776
Joined: Jan. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 10:17 pm |
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Re sexual tension and issues within the ranks and among ranks - the military is going to have to change its culture. It can remain a warrior culture, just not one that tolerates sexist (any more than it tolerates racist) behavior.
The times they are a-changin'.
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Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty
If your cup is full, may it be again
Journal and links to refugees, backpacking, travel in Asia, photos, honky-tonk angels, other beautiful things...
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| Post Number: 11
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bill g
Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 24 2013, 10:27 pm |
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I don't have any issue with women serving in combat. my question is why would anyone want to be in combat? Maybe in WWII or some or the early volunteers after 9-11, I can understand the concept
In the early to mid 70's when I could have been drafted, I didn't sign up for the draft until Steve Ford signed up. If I was drafted you would have found me in Canada.
I appreciate those who voluntarily serve and support the troops. Do women consider this progress?
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you don't know what you got till it's gone
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| Post Number: 12
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Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 621
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:06 am |
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I do not remember the source, but I read/heard this somewhere:
"The most ferocious, determined fighter in the animal kingdom is a mammalian mother protecting her young".
Might not be true, and "young" is not same as "comrades", but I've thought about this observation when women-in-combat was being discussed.
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 13
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 9:53 am |
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Do women consider this progress?
Of course women consider this progress, and more importantly, they consider it equality of opportunity to succeed at their chosen profession.
The sad truth is that the senior leadership in Army and Marines is very much dependent on combat experience, and it helps a lot in the Navy and Air Force. Women who go to the academys have chosen armed service as their profession, but they have been artificially limited in their oppotunity to achieve top leadership by this discriminatory rule, and now they will have a chance to compete on a level playing field.
And I predict that they will do very well.
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| Post Number: 14
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buddero
Group: Members
Posts: 776
Joined: Jan. 2009
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Posted on: Jan. 25 2013, 1:19 pm |
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^ I don't think that's a sad truth at all. Too many REMFs in leadership positions already. I think I understand what you're saying though - sad with respect to women. I have no doubt they will do well.
I saw something to the effect that not all women will qualify for combat... That should be revised to say that not everyone (women or men) will qualify for combat.
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Reach out your hand, if your cup be empty
If your cup is full, may it be again
Journal and links to refugees, backpacking, travel in Asia, photos, honky-tonk angels, other beautiful things...
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| Post Number: 16
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Pathfinder1
Group: Members
Posts: 658
Joined: Apr. 2011
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Posted on: Jan. 26 2013, 11:29 am |
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Hi...
Women ARE already in the US Military...and on the front lines. They just don't (yet) seem to get full credit for it.
Yes, we do have women submariners. It's just recently started, but no SNAFUs so far.
There are presently in the US, women Generals and Admirals...who have served their country with distinction. Some women are Captains of our Navy's finest fightng ships.
Canada and Isreal...for examples...have had women in their Military for decades. It's certainly nothing new to them.
sent from my iHop
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| Post Number: 17
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| Post Number: 18
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Liling
Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Feb. 26 2013, 8:29 am |
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Just had to say that of all the arguments, the one that female soldiers should not be allowed in because they destroy the careers of men I find the most amusing. As far as I can see, the bigger the mix the better. At best army should be about learning to cope with each other, not just to enforce believes or attitudes.
I'm not in favor of any war but I'm sure the army can be a great eye opening travel experience. Having a rich variety of people working there will in my opinion enforce that benefit.
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Travel Addict
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