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Topic: China attacks NYTimes computers< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:14 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Link

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Misleading title, no?   ???

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wellllll:

"The timing of the attacks coincided with the reporting for a Times investigation, published online on Oct. 25, that found that the relatives of Wen Jiabao, China’s prime minister, had accumulated a fortune worth several billion dollars through business dealings.


After The Times learned of warnings from Chinese government officials that its investigation of the wealth of Mr. Wen’s relatives would “have consequences,” executives on Oct. 24 asked AT&T, which monitors The Times’s computer network, to watch for unusual activity.

On Oct. 25, the day the article was published online, AT&T informed The Times that it had noticed behavior that was consistent with other attacks believed to have been perpetrated by the Chinese military."

Warned about "consequences" by the Chinese government and lo and behold "consequences" commence.

Granted the attack wasn't aimed at the "computers" but rather the New York Times itself.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 30 2013, 8:16 pm)
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Misleading title, no?   ???

How so?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

NYT itself used the title "Hackers in China Attacked The Times ".  Your title made it out like a nation had launched an attack against the NYT.  If so, then this wouldn't just be reported on NYT's 'Technology' section, would it?

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 9:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you read the article it seems clear to me that NYTimes thinks China did it. I suppose the cautious title since they can't prove it beyond all doubt:

QUOTE
Security experts say that by routing attacks through servers in other countries and outsourcing attacks to skilled hackers, the Chinese military maintains plausible deniability.

“If you look at each attack in isolation, you can’t say, ‘This is the Chinese military,’ ” said Richard Bejtlich, Mandiant’s chief security officer.

But when the techniques and patterns of the hackers are similar, it is a sign that the hackers are the same or affiliated.

“When you see the same group steal data on Chinese dissidents and Tibetan activists, then attack an aerospace company, it starts to push you in the right direction,” he said.

Mandiant has been tracking about 20 groups that are spying on organizations inside the United States and around the globe. Its investigators said that based on the evidence — the malware used, the command and control centers compromised and the hackers’ techniques — The Times was attacked by a group of Chinese hackers that Mandiant refers to internally as “A.P.T. Number 12.”

A.P.T. stands for Advanced Persistent Threat, a term that computer security experts and government officials use to describe a targeted attack and that many say has become synonymous with attacks done by China. AT&T and the F.B.I. have been tracking the same group, which they have also traced to China, but they use their own internal designations.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 10:05 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(dayhiker9 @ Jan. 31 2013, 6:32 am)
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I suppose the cautious title since they can't prove it beyond all doubt

Yep.  Even CNN -- not known for holding back on loud headlines -- didn't go that far.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So let me get this straight, you think just a bunch of Chinese college students did this?

While the NYTimes did not say they could prove it, in fact they just quoted security experts, I don't see anywhere where they lay out that alternate scenario.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 11:11 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Are we going to hold ourselves to the same standard?

Rise In U.S. Hacker Attacks Against China:
http://www.forbes.com/sites....t-china

Will we be outraged if Iran hacks into our nuclear facilities?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 11:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

With respect to Iran, obviously not.  We don't want them to have nuclear weapon, fair or not, we are not playing bridge with them. In a way though it is too bad Obama choose this method, since it does sort of say cyber attacks are ok.  But he thought it was his best option, much better than say an air attack.  Too bad the virus escaped and got traced back to us.  It does show that cyber warfare (physical destruction) is possible.

As far as I know the US hasn't used cyber warfare elsewhere, except to test it out, maybe they have gotten some spy info as well.  We are supposed to be very good at it, but not so good on defense, or maybe that is what we want other nations to think.

As far as corporations go, I think all major companies have been hacked.  I forget where I heard this, and I think it was by China.  I wonder why we are hacking them, maybe to see how they are using our secrets?

This story did seem a bit different, attacking a news organization etc.

Of course NYTimes was used in the weapons of mass destruction thing, so I suppose there could be a bit of that going on here, though so far no one is talking about attacking China.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If the NY Times hadn't been about to publish a story on China's Billionaire President I sort of doubt they'd have been hacked.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 31 2013, 12:08 pm)
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If the NY Times hadn't been about to publish a story on China's Billionaire President I sort of doubt they'd have been hacked.

I would be extremely surprised that a paper with the stature of NYT hadn't ever been hacked -- until they foolishly did a report on the Chinese president just recently.   :;):


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There'd not be much economic incentive as there is for companies with a technological product or financial such as banks.

And in this instance the Chinese government did warn of "consequences".... and on the date of publication? #Don'tBeleiveInCoincidenses
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 31 2013, 12:33 pm)
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There'd not be much economic incentive as there is for companies with a technological product or financial such as banks.

Are you really this incredibly naive -- or just argumentative?  Media sites get hacked all the time!!!


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 31 2013, 12:34 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Jan. 31 2013, 12:33 pm)
QUOTE
There'd not be much economic incentive as there is for companies with a technological product or financial such as banks.

Are you really this incredibly naive -- or just argumentative?  Media sites get hacked all the time!!!

I only get two choices?

Hmmmm, I'll get back to you on that. :)

I prefer Door # 3:
"And in this instance the Chinese government did warn of "consequences".... and on the date of publication? #Don'tBeleiveInCoincidenses"
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nobody else hacks NYT.  No grievances.  No jostling for attention. Thanks for the laugh today, HSF.  Keep your idiot posts coming.  Or maybe not.  Over.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 3:39 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm still going to go with Willie Sutton's apocryphal opinion on this one.

ETA: Well that and the timing of this attack alongside the Chinese government warning.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 4:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here's the story that was the catalyst for the recent months long cyber attacks as the suspicion stands:
From the OP link:
"The timing of the attacks coincided with the reporting for a Times investigation, published online on Oct. 25, that found that the relatives of Wen Jiabao, China’s prime minister, had accumulated a fortune worth several billion dollars through business dealings."


Billions in Hidden Riches for Family of Chinese Leader
http://www.nytimes.com/2012....ll&_r=0

"Many relatives of Wen Jiabao, including his son, daughter, younger brother and brother-in-law, have become extraordinarily wealthy during his leadership, an investigation by The New York Times shows. A review of corporate and regulatory records indicates that the prime minister’s relatives — some of whom, including his wife, have a knack for aggressive deal making — have controlled assets worth at least $2.7 billion.

In many cases, the names of the relatives have been hidden behind layers of partnerships and investment vehicles involving friends, work colleagues and business partners. Untangling their financial holdings provides an unusually detailed look at how politically connected people have profited from being at the intersection of government and business as state influence and private wealth converge in China’s fast-growing economy."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 5:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 30 2013, 11:16 pm)
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Misleading title, no?   ???

Not in the least.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 8:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, same as Stuxnet being United States attacking Iran.  Something about the pot calling the kettle black.  Of course, when we do it, it's only to defend freedom and democracy...

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 31 2013, 8:18 pm)
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Well, same as Stuxnet being United States attacking Iran.  Something about the pot calling the kettle black.  Of course, when we do it, it's only to defend freedom and democracy...

I love it!

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:21 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

FWIW, Ben the AP headline reads "NY Times says Chinese hacked paper's computers"

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Walkinman @ Feb. 01 2013, 4:21 pm)
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FWIW, Ben the AP headline reads "NY Times says Chinese hacked paper's computers"

Right, which is different than saying China hacked the paper's computers.  The latter connotes an official or officially-sanctioned attack -- which none of the papers is alleging.

BTW, don't get me wrong, I too suspect as much -- meaning Chinese hackers.  And it looks like they were able to crack the passwords of dozens of NYT reporters!  Not to excuse hacking, but I wonder how many of those were "12345" type passwords?  ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Apparently Ben didn't read the article ... It most certainly does imply a official attack.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 8:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Jan. 31 2013, 8:18 pm)
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Well, same as Stuxnet being United States attacking Iran.  Something about the pot calling the kettle black.  Of course, when we do it, it's only to defend freedom and democracy...

Bit of your own interpretation there Ben. All these things warrant a story.

But how do you compare an attempt to slow Iranian nuclear weapons development and hacking a news organization because it published something unfavorable about a political figure?

I'm in no way surprised they are doing it. I would in no way be surprised to find out that the US is hacking computer networks all over the world. It doesn't mean we should just gloss all over the story or make nice to the purpetrators when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 8:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

New York times says targeted by China hackers .....

Reuters. The OP is in good company.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 8:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Walkinman @ Feb. 01 2013, 5:34 pm)
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New York times says targeted by China hackers .....

Reuters. The OP is in good company.

Nope.  China hackers is not China.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 8:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Feb. 01 2013, 5:22 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Jan. 31 2013, 8:18 pm)
QUOTE
Well, same as Stuxnet being United States attacking Iran.  Something about the pot calling the kettle black.  Of course, when we do it, it's only to defend freedom and democracy...

Bit of your own interpretation there Ben. All these things warrant a story.

But how do you compare an attempt to slow Iranian nuclear weapons development and hacking a news organization because it published something unfavorable about a political figure?

I'm in no way surprised they are doing it. I would in no way be surprised to find out that the US is hacking computer networks all over the world. It doesn't mean we should just gloss all over the story or make nice to the purpetrators when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Agree.  My contention all along is that none of the media is pointing to China the country as guilty of attack -- although the suspicion of everyone (including myself) is squarely on Chinese hackers.

And no, we shouldn't gloss over anything.  And without condoning the hacking activities in any way -- I want to repeat my question above:  dozens of NYT reporters' emails and passwords got hacked -- are people still using "12345" type mickey mouse passwords? ???


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 9:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 01 2013, 7:23 pm)
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Right, which is different than saying China hacked the paper's computers.  The latter connotes an official or officially-sanctioned attack -- which none of the papers is alleging.

And that's what happened so what's the problem?
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(HighGravity @ Feb. 01 2013, 6:00 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 01 2013, 7:23 pm)
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Right, which is different than saying China hacked the paper's computers.  The latter connotes an official or officially-sanctioned attack -- which none of the papers is alleging.

And that's what happened so what's the problem?

And you know that already?  I believe our own government is still looking.

But if the Chinese government is behind this -- I think there needs to be clear consequences.   Exactly what is hard for us to say -- so much of the technology is still so new and nebulous... but we need both good defenses as well as good deterrence.


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