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Topic: More state blowback on gun control EO's< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 9:08 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

North Dakota lawmakers are looking to get tough on potential direct actions taken by President Barack Obama, proposing a bill to grant the Legislature the right to review, approve or reject any executive order issued by the president.
House Bill 1428 is designed to give legislators the power to suspend orders implemented unless the orders have been upheld by a vote of Congress.


http://www.willistonherald.com/news....7a.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 9:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think its cute when State Legislatures think that they can ignore the Constitution.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 10:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There's nothing clear in the Constitution that grants the power of an EO to the POTUS.

I think it's cute when a president singehandedly issues an order that has the same power of law as anything passed by all of Congress. Isn't more or less how dictators rule?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 10:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 30 2013, 7:10 pm)
QUOTE
There's nothing clear in the Constitution that grants the power of an EO to the POTUS.

I think it's cute when a president singehandedly issues an order that has the same power of law as anything passed by all of Congress. Isn't more or less how dictators rule?

Name which of these 23 numbered items that would be?

http://www.slate.com/blogs....on.html

Note only three are actually even presidential memoranda...

"President Obama, in fact, didn't actually sign any executive orders today. He did issue three "presidential memoranda," which, respectively:
direct federal law enforcement to trace all guns taken in federal custody in the course of a criminal investigation
direct the Department of Justice to ensure that all applicable information from federal agencies is made available for background checks
and direct the Department of Health to "conduct or sponsor research into the causes of gun violence and the ways to prevent it.""

http://nymag.com/daily....ol.html

So I'll restate my question: which of those 3 would fit your "dictators" concern?
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 10:24 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What's the fixation with 23?

The question is...
Do or don't dictators singlehandedly issue proclamations that have the power of law?


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 10:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 30 2013, 7:24 pm)
QUOTE
What's the fixation with 23?

The question is...
Do or don't dictators singlehandedly issue proclamations that have the power of law?

It is the topic of the thread after all.

Otherwise we're left with what? Empty, fact free platitudes?

Do you, or do you NOT prefer your apple pie a la mode?

Well?


Crickets.....

ETA on the topic of "cute" I found this particular admission especially adorable: "He said there were no direct issues that led to the proposition of the bill."

Awe, cuter than a wriggling kitten that is.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh and "singlehandedly" no, the presidential executive orders and memoranda are not.

Executive Orders: Issuance and Revocation

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS20846.pdf

"The Constitution does not define these presidential instruments and does not explicitly vest the President with the authority to issue them. Nonetheless, such orders are accepted as an inherent aspect of presidential power, and, if based on appropriate authority, they have the force and effect of law."

Actions of "dictators" being based on nothing other than the dictator.

Whereas here we have:
"The Constitution does not contain any provisions that define executive orders or proclamations. The most widely accepted description appears to be that of the House Government Operations Committee in 1957:
Executive orders and proclamations are directives or actions by the President. When they are founded on the authority of the President derived from the Constitution or statute, they may have the force and effect of law.... In the narrower sense Executive orders and proclamations are written documents denominated as such.... Executive orders are generally directed to, and govern actions by, Government officials and agencies. They usually affect private individuals only indirectly. Proclamations in most instances affect primarily the activities of private individuals. Since the President has no power or authority over individual citizens and their rights except where he is granted such power and authority by a provision in the Constitution or by statute, the President’s proclamations are not legally binding and are at best hortatory unless based on such grants of authority. The difference between Executive orders and proclamations is more one of form than of substance.1"

Note the difference: "When they are founded on the authority of the President derived from the Constitution or statute, they may have the force and effect of law....

Founded on the authority.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 30 2013, 11:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Jan. 30 2013, 7:24 pm)
QUOTE
What's the fixation with 23?

The question is...
Do or don't dictators singlehandedly issue proclamations that have the power of law?

Illogical, Montana:

Dictators issue proclamations with power of law.
Obama issues a proclamation (actually, executive order) with the power of law.
Ergo, Obama is a dictator.

Kinda like saying:

Chinese eat rice.
Montana eats rice.
Ergo, Montana is Chinese.


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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 7:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AndyPandy @ Jan. 30 2013, 9:54 pm)
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I think its cute when State Legislatures think that they can ignore the Constitution.

It's never cute when anyone ignores the constitution, especially a president, as has been done from time to time throughout the various presidencies.

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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 31 2013, 7:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(AndyPandy @ Jan. 30 2013, 9:54 pm)
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I think its cute when State Legislatures think that they can ignore the Constitution.

Cuter than when the fed govt does it? :)

As far as the EO's, in a nutshell, he mostly  told the feds to start doing their jobs...including the President himself

that being said, I have no issue with the states drawing lines in the sand with regards to personal freedoms


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 9:06 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
Founded on the authority.

Dictators' proclamations are also "founded on their authority".
My gripe about EOs isn't just Obama but also all who have gone before him. Issuing any order with the force of law that more or less skips Congress (the one difference is Congress can reject EOs within a specific time period) is just wrong. We elect multiple, not just one, representatives to pass laws.

QUOTE
Kinda like saying:

Chinese eat rice.
Montana eats rice.
Ergo, Montana is Chinese.


How do you know I'm not? Asian food is my favorite after all. :p

Not remotely the same in this case. Unless saying:
A fern is alive.
Ben2world is alive.
Therefore B2W is a fern.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 4:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 01 2013, 6:06 am)
QUOTE
QUOTE
Founded on the authority.

Dictators' proclamations are also "founded on their authority".
.....

Derived from the Constitution or statute and not standalone as in a dictatorship.

Which is the point. External to the office authority: The Constitution or statute. Very different.

"The most widely accepted description appears to be that of the House Government Operations Committee in 1957:
Executive orders and proclamations are directives or actions by the President. When they are founded on the authority of the President derived from the Constitution or statute, they may have the force and effect of law.... " and are also, unlike your fears, appealable to the courts which are the final authority.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Owning a medical billing company and working for doctors, I can assure you they have a major problem with EO 16.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 01 2013, 4:15 pm)
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Owning a medical billing company and working for doctors, I can assure you they have a major problem with EO 16.

"16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

Because as the mindless robots they are, NOT being "prohibited" means they will march, Zombie-like, right over the edge?

They really must put something in the bleach used to keep those shiny white coats so, well, shiny.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You’re visiting a doctor because you have flu symptoms. After checking your heart, pulse and other vital signs, the doctor says, “By the way, the federal government has authorized me to ask you: What type and how many guns do you have in your home?"



While revealing a summarized version of President Obama’s executive order Wednesday, the White House has yet to publish the full details and scope of the orders, including the one relating to doctors and guns.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/headlin....hIP3RsI
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 7:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If Bass was a doctor he'd be all over that wouldn't he. Doctors I know don't like the insinuation and see it as an encouragement to ask. Thankfully I know doctors who see it as none of their business.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 01 2013, 11:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If/when the government orders medical professionals to ask about guns in the home and some or all refuse, will they be held up as paragons of doctor/patient confidentiality or will they be vilified as are the sheriffs?

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 02 2013, 8:41 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, some of them will be held in high esteem, and some will be vilified. Just like around this forum.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 02 2013, 9:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 01 2013, 6:38 pm)
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If Bass was a doctor he'd be all over that wouldn't he. Doctors I know don't like the insinuation and see it as an encouragement to ask. Thankfully I know doctors who see it as none of their business.

I'm not a physician. But I can't see a reason to get riled up over it anyway.

I wonder if it is a crime to lie to your doctor?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 02 2013, 9:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh I know your not, I said if. You might be in favour of that too I suppose. People already lie to their doctors all the time.

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