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Topic: More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 05 2013, 11:56 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

As Barack Obama begins his second term in office, trust in the federal government remains mired near a historic low, while frustration with government remains high. And for the first time, a majority of the public says that the federal government threatens their personal rights and freedoms.


http://www.people-press.org/2013....-rights


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yeah, not al Qaida or guns, not North Korea or aids. The US government is the biggest threat.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:21 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

George Bush assured everybody that pre-emotive strikes on sovereign nations was ok, and now we have a president that is conducting pre-emotive strikes on sovereign citizens. Watch the pass that this gets as well. So much for the republic that BF wondered out loud if we could keep.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They should just quit reading their own B. S.

"The growing view that the federal government threatens personal rights and freedoms has been led by conservative Republicans. Currently 76% of conservative Republicans say that the federal government threatens their personal rights and freedoms and 54% describe the government as a “major” threat. Three years ago, 62% of conservative Republicans said the government was a threat to their freedom; 47% said it was a major threat."
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:47 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Yes. That answers it all. Only conservatives have this concern.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

From Jonathan Turleys website.


10 Reasons The U.S. Is No Longer The Land Of The Free
Published 1, January 15, 2012 Academics , Columns , Congress , Constitutional Law , Free Speech , International , Media , Politics , Society , Supreme Court 562 Comments



http://jonathanturley.org/2012....he-free


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 7:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater,  than it was at the time of the Revolt and at least as much as just before and during the Civil War.

I don't know that we'll have another internal war but I have no doubt the US as we know it will cease to exist within 10-15 years.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 8:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 06 2013, 7:32 am)
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The division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater,  than it was at the time of the Revolt and at least as much as just before and during the Civil War.

I don't know that we'll have another internal war but I have no doubt the US as we know it will cease to exist within 10-15 years.

More paranoid nonsense.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 8:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am)
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Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".

Actually Ben, no ones scared. This is drummed up because the MIC is too big to fail.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 8:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 06 2013, 7:32 am)
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The division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater,  than it was at the time of the Revolt and at least as much as just before and during the Civil War.

I don't know that we'll have another internal war but I have no doubt the US as we know it will cease to exist within 10-15 years.

Can't speak to that time frame, but yeah!

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

>> "More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat"

They polled about a 1,000 people... when does 500 people constitute "half of US"?

Also, it's not "THE threat", it's "threat to personal rights and freedoms" in whatever form the responder interprets that to be, including "my children aren't allowed to pray in school."  I doubt that most people would consider AIDS to be a threat to their personal rights.

Note that the numbers for Democrats haven't changed, just the conservative Republicans.  If you want to point a finger at someone for the widening division, it shouldn't be toward President Obama but at the conservative leaders that are insisting on driving that wedge.

I, for one, don't understand the logic of those that spew such hate and disrespect and then blame the President for their own attitude.  Talk about adults acting like whiny spoiled brats.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montanalonewolf @ Feb. 06 2013, 6:32 am)
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The division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater,  than it was at the time of the Revolt and at least as much as just before and during the Civil War.

I don't know that we'll have another internal war but I have no doubt the US as we know it will cease to exist within 10-15 years.

There is no doubt that the division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater than it has been. But I see that division being addressed by a number of public policies. Two of the most important changes that are happening come to mind:

The growing financial inequity, the corruption, and loss of economic competitiveness that caused this depression has alarmed US leaders. Sarbanes-Oxley, Dodd-Frank, and a proposed more progressive tax structure will help to reverse the hollowing out of the middle class and return the trust that stock and financial markets are not rigged against the small investor. Tax and regulatory changes to help keep jobs in the US are soon to be addressed too.

Though many hate Obamacare, it reins in the major abuses by health insurance companies and excessive stock option packages to insurance company executives at the expense of stockholders and the insured. Obamacare also addresses the "haves" and the uninsured and underinsured "have-nots" and helps assure quality medical care for ALL insured. In the long run, Obamacare will put pressure on costs and help to bring medical costs in the US closer to the costs in the rest of the industrialized countries.

So I agree that the US of 10-15 years in the future will be radically different. The internet and a better informed population will continue to address unfairness and corruption and this will decrease the present division. The present tax and financial and health care reforms will have a great impact on life in 10 or 15 years.

But that is only a start. The transparency that the internet has introduced will continue to highlight other social, financial, educational, etc problems and bring more informed debate. The time when big money interests could spin issues and lie in order to confuse and get their way is over. The internet dwarfs their efforts and puts pressure on lawmakers to be more responsive to everyone - not just the wealthy few.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 9:34 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am)
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>> "More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat"

They polled about a 1,000 people... when does 500 people constitute "half of US"?

Also, it's not "THE threat", it's "threat to personal rights and freedoms" in whatever form the responder interprets that to be, including "my children aren't allowed to pray in school."  I doubt that most people would consider AIDS to be a threat to their personal rights.

Note that the numbers for Democrats haven't changed, just the conservative Republicans.  If you want to point a finger at someone for the widening division, it shouldn't be toward President Obama but at the conservative leaders that are insisting on driving that wedge.

I, for one, don't understand the logic of those that spew such hate and disrespect and then blame the President for their own attitude.  Talk about adults acting like whiny spoiled brats.

Unfamiliar with the way a survey works?


When respondents to be interviewed are selected at random, every adult has an equal probability of falling into the sample. The typical sample size for a Gallup poll, either a traditional stand-alone poll or one night's interviewing from Gallup's Daily tracking, is 1,000 national adults with a margin of error of ±4 percentage points. Gallup's Daily tracking process now allows Gallup analysts to aggregate larger groups of interviews for more detailed subgroup analysis. But the accuracy of the estimates derived only marginally improves with larger sample sizes.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/101872/how-does-gallup-polling-work.aspx


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 9:40 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am)
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>> "More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat"

They polled about a 1,000 people... when does 500 people constitute "half of US"?

Also, it's not "THE threat", it's "threat to personal rights and freedoms" in whatever form the responder interprets that to be, including "my children aren't allowed to pray in school."  I doubt that most people would consider AIDS to be a threat to their personal rights.

Note that the numbers for Democrats haven't changed, just the conservative Republicans.  If you want to point a finger at someone for the widening division, it shouldn't be toward President Obama but at the conservative leaders that are insisting on driving that wedge.

I, for one, don't understand the logic of those that spew such hate and disrespect and then blame the President for their own attitude.  Talk about adults acting like whiny spoiled brats.

I'm not pointing a finger at Obama. This is a general and growing concern of the federal government. Such poll numbers were a bit higher amongst liberals during the Bush years and together they have combined to produce a record amount of Americans growing increasingly uneasy with the reach of their government. And................that number will rise.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 10:18 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:34 am)
QUOTE

(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE
>> "More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat"

They polled about a 1,000 people... when does 500 people constitute "half of US"?

Also, it's not "THE threat", it's "threat to personal rights and freedoms" in whatever form the responder interprets that to be, including "my children aren't allowed to pray in school."  I doubt that most people would consider AIDS to be a threat to their personal rights.

Note that the numbers for Democrats haven't changed, just the conservative Republicans.  If you want to point a finger at someone for the widening division, it shouldn't be toward President Obama but at the conservative leaders that are insisting on driving that wedge.

I, for one, don't understand the logic of those that spew such hate and disrespect and then blame the President for their own attitude.  Talk about adults acting like whiny spoiled brats.

Unfamiliar with the way a survey works?


When respondents to be interviewed are selected at random, every adult has an equal probability of falling into the sample. The typical sample size for a Gallup poll, either a traditional stand-alone poll or one night's interviewing from Gallup's Daily tracking, is 1,000 national adults with a margin of error of ±4 percentage points. Gallup's Daily tracking process now allows Gallup analysts to aggregate larger groups of interviews for more detailed subgroup analysis. But the accuracy of the estimates derived only marginally improves with larger sample sizes.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/101872/how-does-gallup-polling-work.aspx

LOL... I love it when a survey or a poll is described as "random".  It's never truly random because those surveyed are asked to participate.  I get asked all the time and sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't and, yes, I'm influenced in that decision by who I'm being asked by and what the subject is.  And, if I do participate, my answers are greatly influenced by how the questions are asked and the choices for answers I'm given.

Surveys and polls are good tools but they're still tools and the results are simply that, survey results, and not synonymous with the actual fact that they imply or support.  More than half of a sample of 1,000 surveyed may feel that the US government poses a threat to their personal rights and freedoms but that doesn't make it a fact.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 10:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:40 am)
QUOTE
I'm not pointing a finger at Obama. This is a general and growing concern of the federal government. Such poll numbers were a bit higher amongst liberals during the Bush years and together they have combined to produce a record amount of Americans growing increasingly uneasy with the reach of their government. And................that number will rise.

No, it's not "general" at all.  It's the fanatical conservatives and, frankly, they're just fanning their own fire.  If the number rises, it will simply be within their own ranks.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 11:29 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
There is no doubt that the division in the US now is wider, and distrust of the government is greater than it has been. But I see that division being addressed by a number of public policies.


I should have said:
I don't know that we'll have another internal war but I have no doubt the US as we know it will cease to exist within 10-15 years unless drastic changes occur in attitude between the Gang of 2.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 11:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 5:50 am)
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am)
QUOTE
Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".

Actually Ben, no ones scared. This is drummed up because the MIC is too big to fail.

Do you think all gun owners who profess the need to protect themselves and their loved ones -- stocking up on ammo and stuff -- are all lying?

As well, when 70% of Americans supported W's call to attack Iraq -- to 'fight the war there before we have to fight the war here' -- there was no fear -- meaning we were just in it for adventure?

I am no expert, but my perception is that there is insecurity among us -- though I am not necessarily saying that fear is justified..


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The 2 "M-guys" (as well as a lot of others) need to take a few steps back and listen to themselves for a bit, in the context of what most other people are saying.

1) Try using complete English sentences instead of all the catch phrases and acronyms that are currently common parlance in whatever groups you belong to, or whatever blogs you read.

That the both of you keep throwing out stuff like "MIC" and "gang of 2" is a clear indication of the influence of the "hypemeisters" of the right wing "echo chamber". Hell, I don't even know what "gang of 2" means.

2) As HSF said succinctly way back there: "quit reading [your] own B. S." and get out and around more people who aren't like you - Yeah, that's a scary proposition in a lot of ways, but you might find out that the voices in your head are coming from yourself.

This country has changed a lot, and it will continue to change (duh - of course), but I doubt we'll have a "civil war", though I have no doubt that those paranoids like you two "M-guys" will "act out" now and again.

3) Try taking deep breaths. Start a new avocation(other than frantic gun collection), like yoga or exercise. Read some books that make you think - but about something other than the coming apocalypse.

You have a disease, but the good news is that there is a cure.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:18 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also as someone who was there in the late sixties and early seventies?

Now?

Piffle.
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'Course given Republicans enthusiastic probing into the nations bedrooms and marriage ceremonies and uteruses I can see the point.

"threatens personal rights and freedoms"

Indeed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 12:42 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:18 am)
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Also as someone who was there in the late sixties and early seventies?

Now?

Piffle.

That reminds me of a few things:

When I was overseas for a couple of years back in the Vietnam era, the only news we got on a regular basis was "Armed Forces Radio", "The Stars and Stripes" and the occasional letter from home. It wasn't like the massive communication we have now. This was the period of time of the Watts riots, the riots in Detroit, the Whitman shootings here in Austin and the beginning of the anti-Vietnam war riots. From the perspective of a group of guys on the other side of the world from all of this, we thought holy hell was erupting back home.

I remember we used to sit around smoking or drinking in the day room, eating Spam sandwiches with Velveeta (there was no meat other than canned, and we were invariably playing cards) and speculate about what was really going on "back there". Cooler heads usually prevailed in such conversations - "ah, it's still just like it was - it's the newspapers: they gotta sell print."

The "Stars and Stripes", for instance, only published a list of the top 20 songs back in the States - we didn't have access to the actual recordings - no Internet, no mp3 downloads, and the jukeboxes in the bars in town were mired in a period 3 to 4 years earlier. So, believe it or not, we'd speculate about what "The Sounds of Silence" might actually sound like - was it simply a recording of 3 minutes of silence? What was "Wild Thing" about? What was "19th Nervous Breakdown" about?

Eventually, the songs would come over via some kind group of stewardesses bringing us recordings (and sometimes even actual steaks!) or a local band in a bar "in town" would do a rendition of something "more current" and we'd feel like fools, lost in our own silly little world.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:50 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 10:18 am)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:34 am)
QUOTE

(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:09 am)
QUOTE
>> "More than half of US view gvrnmnt the threat"

They polled about a 1,000 people... when does 500 people constitute "half of US"?

Also, it's not "THE threat", it's "threat to personal rights and freedoms" in whatever form the responder interprets that to be, including "my children aren't allowed to pray in school."  I doubt that most people would consider AIDS to be a threat to their personal rights.

Note that the numbers for Democrats haven't changed, just the conservative Republicans.  If you want to point a finger at someone for the widening division, it shouldn't be toward President Obama but at the conservative leaders that are insisting on driving that wedge.

I, for one, don't understand the logic of those that spew such hate and disrespect and then blame the President for their own attitude.  Talk about adults acting like whiny spoiled brats.

Unfamiliar with the way a survey works?


When respondents to be interviewed are selected at random, every adult has an equal probability of falling into the sample. The typical sample size for a Gallup poll, either a traditional stand-alone poll or one night's interviewing from Gallup's Daily tracking, is 1,000 national adults with a margin of error of ±4 percentage points. Gallup's Daily tracking process now allows Gallup analysts to aggregate larger groups of interviews for more detailed subgroup analysis. But the accuracy of the estimates derived only marginally improves with larger sample sizes.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/101872/how-does-gallup-polling-work.aspx

LOL... I love it when a survey or a poll is described as "random".  It's never truly random because those surveyed are asked to participate.  I get asked all the time and sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't and, yes, I'm influenced in that decision by who I'm being asked by and what the subject is.  And, if I do participate, my answers are greatly influenced by how the questions are asked and the choices for answers I'm given.

Surveys and polls are good tools but they're still tools and the results are simply that, survey results, and not synonymous with the actual fact that they imply or support.  More than half of a sample of 1,000 surveyed may feel that the US government poses a threat to their personal rights and freedoms but that doesn't make it a fact.

Fair enough, don't ever quote a poll to prove your point.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 1:52 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(TigerFan @ Feb. 06 2013, 10:24 am)
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(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 9:40 am)
QUOTE
I'm not pointing a finger at Obama. This is a general and growing concern of the federal government. Such poll numbers were a bit higher amongst liberals during the Bush years and together they have combined to produce a record amount of Americans growing increasingly uneasy with the reach of their government. And................that number will rise.

No, it's not "general" at all.  It's the fanatical conservatives and, frankly, they're just fanning their own fire.  If the number rises, it will simply be within their own ranks.

Sure TF.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:56 am)
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(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 5:50 am)
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am)
QUOTE
Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".

Actually Ben, no ones scared. This is drummed up because the MIC is too big to fail.

Do you think all gun owners who profess the need to protect themselves and their loved ones -- stocking up on ammo and stuff -- are all lying?

As well, when 70% of Americans supported W's call to attack Iraq -- to 'fight the war there before we have to fight the war here' -- there was no fear -- meaning we were just in it for adventure?

I am no expert, but my perception is that there is insecurity among us -- though I am not necessarily saying that fear is justified..

No, not at all. People have genuine concerns, but they're all within. Not the external concerns (Muslims, Iran, N. Korea, terrorists, etc.) that the government plays up.

No, 70% approval to attack a sovereign country which had done nothing to us and posed no such threat was born of ignorance, not fear.

But I agree with the basis of your post in post 7.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Try using complete English sentences instead of all the catch phrases and acronyms that are currently common parlance in whatever groups you belong to, or whatever blogs you read.

..is a clear indication of the influence of the "hypemeisters" of the right wing "echo chamber". Hell, I don't even know what "gang of 2" means.

I don't hang out on, listen to or participate in anything on-line or elsewhere involving "right wing".

It's rather pathetic if you can't make the connection "Gang of 2" with another "Gang...".


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:00 am)
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:56 am)
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(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 5:50 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am)
QUOTE
Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".

Actually Ben, no ones scared. This is drummed up because the MIC is too big to fail.

Do you think all gun owners who profess the need to protect themselves and their loved ones -- stocking up on ammo and stuff -- are all lying?

As well, when 70% of Americans supported W's call to attack Iraq -- to 'fight the war there before we have to fight the war here' -- there was no fear -- meaning we were just in it for adventure?

I am no expert, but my perception is that there is insecurity among us -- though I am not necessarily saying that fear is justified..

No, not at all. People have genuine concerns, but they're all within. Not the external concerns (Muslims, Iran, N. Korea, terrorists, etc.) that the government plays up.

No, 70% approval to attack a sovereign country which had done nothing to us and posed no such threat was born of ignorance, not fear.

But I agree with the basis of your post in post 7.

Thanks.  And not to quibble too much, but fears driven by causes both real and ignorant produce much the same reactions in people.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Gabby @ Feb. 06 2013, 12:16 pm)
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The 2 "M-guys" (as well as a lot of others) need to take a few steps back and listen to themselves for a bit, in the context of what most other people are saying.

1) Try using complete English sentences instead of all the catch phrases and acronyms that are currently common parlance in whatever groups you belong to, or whatever blogs you read.

That the both of you keep throwing out stuff like "MIC" and "gang of 2" is a clear indication of the influence of the "hypemeisters" of the right wing "echo chamber". Hell, I don't even know what "gang of 2" means.

2) As HSF said succinctly way back there: "quit reading [your] own B. S." and get out and around more people who aren't like you - Yeah, that's a scary proposition in a lot of ways, but you might find out that the voices in your head are coming from yourself.

This country has changed a lot, and it will continue to change (duh - of course), but I doubt we'll have a "civil war", though I have no doubt that those paranoids like you two "M-guys" will "act out" now and again.

3) Try taking deep breaths. Start a new avocation(other than frantic gun collection), like yoga or exercise. Read some books that make you think - but about something other than the coming apocalypse.

You have a disease, but the good news is that there is a cure.

A psychiatrist I presume.


Unfamiliar with the MIC as well. Coined by president Eisenhower as he warned of its dangers on the way out in 61', check it out someday, see if he didn't make accurate predictions.


Succinctly! Lol.


Who's talking about civil war?


Polls are worthless when you disagree with their results and regularly quoted when they do.

Ok, your funny. Funny post too.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2013, 2:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 2:09 pm)
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(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:00 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 11:56 am)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Feb. 06 2013, 5:50 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 06 2013, 1:19 am)
QUOTE
Not that those times were perfect, but I think I would trade the present for the times of either Clinton or Reagan.  I know, I know, we should be forward looking rather than backward... but seriously, I find our society heading the wrong way -- fired by a dangerous mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Domestically, we seem more fearful and distrustful of each other.  And abroad, we are still freely espousing the doctrine of preemptive strike -- both real and virtual.  Who are our enemies, really?  We don't know... we just call them 'rogue states'.  Iran a serious threat to us, really?  Mostly, we're just scared.  Of what, exactly?  I think it's the fear often felt by one who is at its peak -- and just plain fearful of going down whichever direction.  And this fear that we can't put our finger on is driving us to spend ridiculously and aimlessly -- on defense and on domestic security / surveillance.  There just seems to be no end to this.

Might it help to listen to FDR's speech again?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself...".

Actually Ben, no ones scared. This is drummed up because the MIC is too big to fail.

Do you think all gun owners who profess the need to protect themselves and their loved ones -- stocking up on ammo and stuff -- are all lying?

As well, when 70% of Americans supported W's call to attack Iraq -- to 'fight the war there before we have to fight the war here' -- there was no fear -- meaning we were just in it for adventure?

I am no expert, but my perception is that there is insecurity among us -- though I am not necessarily saying that fear is justified..

No, not at all. People have genuine concerns, but they're all within. Not the external concerns (Muslims, Iran, N. Korea, terrorists, etc.) that the government plays up.

No, 70% approval to attack a sovereign country which had done nothing to us and posed no such threat was born of ignorance, not fear.

But I agree with the basis of your post in post 7.

Thanks.  And not to quibble too much, but fears driven by causes both real and ignorant produce much the same reactions in people.

That I agree with.

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