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Topic: Neocon warmonger defends Obama< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:04 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) will offer a resolution next week commending President Barack Obama’s use of drones and the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki.

“Every member of Congress needs to get on board,” Graham said. “It’s not fair to the president to let him, leave him out there alone quite frankly. He’s getting hit from libertarians and the left.



http://www.politico.com/blogs....63.html


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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why isn't it fair?

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:09 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

At least he's consistent. He supported Bush when he was attacking sovereign nations and people who hadn't harmed us as well.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 07 2013, 8:09 pm)
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At least he's consistent. He supported Bush when he was attacking sovereign nations and people who hadn't harmed us as well.

Yeah, I suppose the GOP does exude consistency.  Jesse Helms.  Barry Goldwater.  Like them or hate them, you are never surprised by them.   :;):

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 07 2013, 11:08 pm)
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Why isn't it fair?

Well it wouldn't be fair given the support Bush enjoyed under similar circumstances.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 07 2013, 8:11 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Feb. 07 2013, 11:08 pm)
QUOTE
Why isn't it fair?

Well it wouldn't be fair given the support Bush enjoyed under similar circumstances.

My fondest wish is to see Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld hauled off to the World Court for crimes against humanity.

As for Obama -- I have been rather disappointed in his foreign policies.  Somewhere between a D- and an F.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2013, 11:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree with both points.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 7:35 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Graham is neither a neocon nor a warmonger. He's one of the more reasonable republicans and a genuinely nice guy.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 8:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a major proponent of the idea of a US perpetual war, now wants conflict with Pakistan. He told Fox News Sunday.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 8:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 07 2013, 11:08 pm)
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Why isn't it fair?

It's not fair to criticize the war/assassination efforts of Nobel Peace Prize recipients.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 10:36 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 08 2013, 8:45 am)
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Sen. Lindsey Graham, a major proponent of the idea of a US perpetual war, now wants conflict with Pakistan. He told Fox News Sunday.

An excerpt of what Graham said is below.  

I don't think it's a fair statement to say he wants a conflict with Pakistan.  

I agree with the idea of protecting our troops.

Graham did not call for military action but said "all options" should be considered. He said assistance to Pakistan should be reconfigured and that the U.S. should no longer designate an amount of aid for Pakistan but have a more "transactional relationship" with the country.

"They're killing American soldiers," he said. "If they continue to embrace terrorism as a part of their national strategy, we're going to have to put all options on the table, including defending our troops."
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 10:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:36 am)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Feb. 08 2013, 8:45 am)
QUOTE
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a major proponent of the idea of a US perpetual war, now wants conflict with Pakistan. He told Fox News Sunday.

An excerpt of what Graham said is below.  

I don't think it's a fair statement to say he wants a conflict with Pakistan.  

I agree with the idea of protecting our troops.

Graham did not call for military action but said "all options" should be considered. He said assistance to Pakistan should be reconfigured and that the U.S. should no longer designate an amount of aid for Pakistan but have a more "transactional relationship" with the country.

"They're killing American soldiers," he said. "If they continue to embrace terrorism as a part of their national strategy, we're going to have to put all options on the table, including defending our troops."

Well you didn't think ol' Monte was going to be forthright about the subject, did you?   :;):   It's much easier to paraphrase Fox News Sunday...


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 10:39 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not everyone agrees that Pakistan is engaged in terrorism against the US, killing US soldiers. Many in Pakistan consider US drones killing innocent civilians, inside Pakistanis sovereign state, to be terrorism.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 10:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(EastieTrekker @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:39 am)
QUOTE

(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:36 am)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Feb. 08 2013, 8:45 am)
QUOTE
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a major proponent of the idea of a US perpetual war, now wants conflict with Pakistan. He told Fox News Sunday.

An excerpt of what Graham said is below.  

I don't think it's a fair statement to say he wants a conflict with Pakistan.  

I agree with the idea of protecting our troops.

Graham did not call for military action but said "all options" should be considered. He said assistance to Pakistan should be reconfigured and that the U.S. should no longer designate an amount of aid for Pakistan but have a more "transactional relationship" with the country.

"They're killing American soldiers," he said. "If they continue to embrace terrorism as a part of their national strategy, we're going to have to put all options on the table, including defending our troops."

Well you didn't think ol' Monte was going to be forthright about the subject, did you?   :;):   It's much easier to paraphrase Fox News Sunday...

It was a direct quote. But ok then. Here's the three most hawkish senators from a liberal media.


Mr. Graham, Mr. McCain and Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, a Democrat turned independent who is retiring, were a trio whose hawkish views could be counted on in the Senate. Those views secured them a place at the center of every major foreign policy debate.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top....ex.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 10:56 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What does naming hawkish senators have to do with the fact that you just stated that Sen. Graham, "wants conflict with Pakistan", and Smokehiker presented Graham's actual words, which clearly conflict your assertion that he "wants" conflict with Pakistan?  Nothing like inflammatory rhetoric on a Friday morning, jeesh...

I'm not too fond of the Republican Party, but there's no sense in hype up every sound bite you hear...

PS. People usually indicate direct quotes, with...you know...quotes ""


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 11:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:39 am)
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Not everyone agrees that Pakistan is engaged in terrorism against the US, killing US soldiers. Many in Pakistan consider US drones killing innocent civilians, inside Pakistanis sovereign state, to be terrorism.

Hope this doesn't come as a big surprise to you but I could give a rat's ass about what many in Pakistan think.  

There......go gnash your teeth on that.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 1:34 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you try to engage Monte in a serious discussion, just keep in mind that only your half of it will be serious.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Feb. 08 2013, 5:54 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 07 2013, 11:08 pm)
QUOTE
Why isn't it fair?

It's not fair to criticize the war/assassination efforts of Nobel Peace Prize recipients.

Ooooooh, good one!    :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 1:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 8:01 am)
QUOTE

(Montecresto @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:39 am)
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Not everyone agrees that Pakistan is engaged in terrorism against the US, killing US soldiers. Many in Pakistan consider US drones killing innocent civilians, inside Pakistanis sovereign state, to be terrorism.

Hope this doesn't come as a big surprise to you but I could give a rat's ass about what many in Pakistan think.  

There......go gnash your teeth on that.


I travel abroad every year.  I often get into cultural/economic/political discussions with locals.  It's amazing how much foreigners know about us (but not vice versa). There's a lot about us, our society, our culture that people genuinely admire.  But when talked about -- the arrogant, inhumane American sentiment above is the one I am most ashamed of.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 2:55 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not arrogant or inhumane....quite the opposite really.  
Lots of folks travel abroad on an annual basis.  Some do speak in-depth with the locals.  This doesn't impress me.....it's what people do.

As far as my statement goes, I'm not in favor of shaping our foreign policy and compromising the safety of our troops based on what 'many in Pakistan' may think.  If the Pakistani govt (our ally) is unwilling to go into the mountains and relieve any/all terrorists of their life, I support any/all efforts we (The U.S.) takes.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 3:16 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 11:55 am)
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As far as my statement goes, I'm not in favor of shaping our foreign policy and compromising the safety of our troops based on what 'many in Pakistan' may think.  If the Pakistani govt (our ally) is unwilling to go into the mountains and relieve any/all terrorists of their life, I support any/all efforts we (The U.S.) takes.

Me neither.  But are the Pakistanis killing us here?  No.  It begs the question why our troops were there!

I don't think there is a single American among us who didn't support the hunt for bin Laden.  There are many ways to do that.  But occupying an entire country to better shape it to our own liking -- and then for people like you to say we don't care what the Afghans or the Pakistanis think -- is arrogant.

And there is also the continued ignorance that every time our troops and our drones kill by mistake -- apologies will not stop the creation of more enemies --seething with anger!

Turn the table around if you can't empathize with a near-conquered people.  Say China is our ally and China sends in drones to "help us" clear their enemies -- and their drones hit our schools and our malls and kill our people -- repeatedly.  You think apologies from Beijing will suffice?

We started this idiotic war and guerrillas, like all good guerrillas, keep forcing us to aim into civilian populations.  Is is they who are shaping this war, and our troops and our CIA are stupidly reacting.  Hopefully, we will be gone in two years (2014, right?).  But my view is that once we leave, Afghanistan will be the same as it ever was -- except that we are short 5,000+ young American men and women -- plus a couple of trillions of dollars.  Can you see the smirk coming from Moscow?

Our arrogance and our ignorance.  A lethal combination for us.  And a menace to the world.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 4:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 08 2013, 3:16 pm)
QUOTE

(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 11:55 am)
QUOTE
As far as my statement goes, I'm not in favor of shaping our foreign policy and compromising the safety of our troops based on what 'many in Pakistan' may think.  If the Pakistani govt (our ally) is unwilling to go into the mountains and relieve any/all terrorists of their life, I support any/all efforts we (The U.S.) takes.

Me neither.  But are the Pakistanis killing us here?  No.  It begs the question why our troops were there!

I don't think there is a single American among us who didn't support the hunt for bin Laden.  There are many ways to do that.  But occupying an entire country to better shape it to our own liking -- and then for people like you to say we don't care what the Afghans or the Pakistanis think -- is arrogant.

And there is also the continued ignorance that every time our troops and our drones kill by mistake -- apologies will not stop the creation of more enemies --seething with anger!

Turn the table around if you can't empathize with a near-conquered people.  Say China is our ally and China sends in drones to "help us" clear their enemies -- and their drones hit our schools and our malls and kill our people -- repeatedly.  You think apologies from Beijing will suffice?

We started this idiotic war and guerrillas, like all good guerrillas, keep forcing us to aim into civilian populations.  Is is they who are shaping this war, and our troops and our CIA are stupidly reacting.  Hopefully, we will be gone in two years (2014, right?).  But my view is that once we leave, Afghanistan will be the same as it ever was -- except that we are short 5,000+ young American men and women -- plus a couple of trillions of dollars.  Can you see the smirk coming from Moscow?

Our arrogance and our ignorance.  A lethal combination for us.  And a menace to the world.

People like me???  Please.....you don't know me.  You seem like a smart person and I think you know why our troops go into Pakistan.  It has nothing to do with Pakistanis killing us here.  It has everything to do with why we went into A-stan in the first place.  
I sympathize with any civilian caught in a war.  But again, civilian deaths in a war is the reality of things and I can't change that.
And I won't get into anything hypothetical regarding China.

Idiotic war??  I'm sorry but have you heard of an event commonly referred to as 9/11?

I agree with you somewhat though......it's lasted way too long and has cost us much in young lives and $$.  And yes when we leave it will be the same archaic **** hole it was when we arrived.  And yes......I sure the smirks in Moscow have been around for a few years now.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 4:47 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 1:38 pm)
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I sympathize with any civilian caught in a war.  But again, civilian deaths in a war is the reality of things and I can't change that.
And I won't get into anything hypothetical regarding China.

Yeah, lucky that we have never been a conquered nation.  But success itself contains the seeds of failure.  Our success breeds our arrogance -- and that will eventually be our downfall.

I know you are not actively hoping for the deaths of civilians -- but your nonchalance is chilling.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 08 2013, 5:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Am I missing something here?

I haven't really kept up with what's going on in Pakistan since the "Raymond Davis" affair, but doesn't Pakistan STILL not allow U.S. troops in that country at all?(The incursion to kill bin Laden was an unapproved, clandestine operation, as everybody knows, I'm sure - at least by now, surely.) Not to say that we don't have a strong contingent of CIA (and probably other agents, like those of the DEA - David Headley comes to mind for some reason..."Mumbai attack coordinated and planned by an American DEA double agent" sort of thing)

When I was reading up on the abysmally immoral "Raymond Davis affair" (last year, in January? Or was that 2011? Jeez...), I found story after story about the drone attacks on "al Queda" (not really, however: there are hundreds, maybe even thousands of almost tribal terrorist organizations, who also fight among themselves constantly, in Pakistan), and how we were, at least back then, paying anyone who would take our money ($100-$120 a pop, and including small children) to take the penny-sized "electronic targeting devices" and "throw them in the places where the 'bad guy terrorists' are".

So, of course, you get some kids who just take the money and throw the "pennies" outside the houses of those they don't particularly like, and on and on and on. (I'm sure the CIA employs agents - like Ray Davis - to check out the "targetting" to some extent, but I don't really like the "perpetual drone war" idea at all, and I do think the darker recesses of our government lead us into these stupid corners, as well as enrage otherwise absolutely honest citizens of other countries to hate us passionately - and not that they don't have enough domestic pressure in that direction already, led by political factions (like the mythical al Qaeda).
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 09 2013, 5:27 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 08 2013, 4:47 pm)
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(smokehiker @ Feb. 08 2013, 1:38 pm)
QUOTE
I sympathize with any civilian caught in a war.  But again, civilian deaths in a war is the reality of things and I can't change that.
And I won't get into anything hypothetical regarding China.

Yeah, lucky that we have never been a conquered nation.  But success itself contains the seeds of failure.  Our success breeds our arrogance -- and that will eventually be our downfall.

I know you are not actively hoping for the deaths of civilians -- but your nonchalance is chilling.

My nonchalance is chilling.  Wow.

What's 'chilling' to me is 17.5 Trillion of debt, lack of jobs, a government that spies on its citizens, an economy that is swirling down the drain, and way too many people in this country that can't even find Pakistan on a friggin map.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 12 2013, 10:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(EastieTrekker @ Feb. 08 2013, 10:56 am)
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What does naming hawkish senators have to do with the fact that you just stated that Sen. Graham, "wants conflict with Pakistan", and Smokehiker presented Graham's actual words, which clearly conflict your assertion that he "wants" conflict with Pakistan?  Nothing like inflammatory rhetoric on a Friday morning, jeesh...

I'm not too fond of the Republican Party, but there's no sense in hype up every sound bite you hear...

PS. People usually indicate direct quotes, with...you know...quotes ""

FOX news put this story up, about one of their own. Where's the conflict, except that which Sen. Graham wants in Pakistan? All options, are all options, including military.

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