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Topic: A Start to Make Guns Less Deadly, But a long way to go!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 19 2013, 6:38 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Colorado legislature is reperesenting me well.  Glad to see a beginning, but we have a long way to go.  When we have effective smart guns it will be much harder for mass killers to get an operating gun, and we will cut down the killing by a large amount.

DENVER (AP) — Limits on the size of ammunition magazines and universal background checks passed the Colorado House on Monday, during a second day of emotional debates that has drawn attention from the White House as lawmakers try to address recent mass shootings.

The bills were among four that the Democratic-controlled House passed amid strong resistance from Republicans, who were joined by a few Democrats to make some of the votes close.

The proposed ammunition restrictions limit magazines to 15 rounds for firearms, and eight for shotguns. Three Democrats joined all Republicans voting no on the bill, but the proposal passed 34-31.


http://news.yahoo.com/colo-ho....77.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 7:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What we really need are smart people.....the kind that can see that nothing got any safer....but congrats....if the magazine ban goes into effect magpul will be leaving the state and taking a bunch of jobs with them

The bipartisan opposition is heartening but there are still too many idiots concerned with how often people need to reload

This is what happens when too many liberal idiots are allowed to immigrate from Commiefornia....they ruin a perfectly good state

There go my plans to ever move back


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 7:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Congratulations on loosing a little bit more freedom, and irrational false sense of security!

I’m a little conflicted, but I will still be visiting beautiful Colorado as soon as public Coffee Shops open. I have to give credit where credit is due.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 8:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Apparently what the dems are really concerned with is silly armed women

http://www.politico.com/story....04.html

Sad that they have such a low opinion of the fairer sex

Lots to be proud of with this bozo www   :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 8:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Whew! Now I'll feel safer when visiting Colorado.

{Though I do agree that smart gun technology is a valid course of action.}


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 12:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow there goes my freedom out the door. Damn dirty libs taking my freedom away. No more backpacking, fishing, walking down the street, eating, wacking off. Dirty commie libs.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 12:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 4:01 am)
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There go my plans to ever move back

And I' sure their hearts are breaking over that!  :laugh:
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 12:36 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:23 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 4:01 am)
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There go my plans to ever move back

And I' sure their hearts are breaking over that!  :laugh:

We're devastated. Seriously, letting your life be run by states gun laws is sad.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 12:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The current high cap mags for my tools come in under this anyway.  If and when I get tools the can handle larger capacity I will just head north to purchase what I need.  Another feel good measure passed through on high emotions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ Feb. 20 2013, 9:36 am)
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We're devastated. Seriously, letting your life be run by states gun laws is sad.

+1
Can you say: obsession?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 1:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Marmotstew @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:36 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:23 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 4:01 am)
QUOTE
There go my plans to ever move back

And I' sure their hearts are breaking over that!  :laugh:

We're devastated. Seriously, letting your life be run by states gun laws is sad.

So yu think people should flock to states that do not value personal freedom?

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 1:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 1:03 pm)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:36 pm)
QUOTE

(hbfa @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:23 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 4:01 am)
QUOTE
There go my plans to ever move back

And I' sure their hearts are breaking over that!  :laugh:

We're devastated. Seriously, letting your life be run by states gun laws is sad.

So yu think people should flock to states that do not value personal freedom?

No. Absolutely not. All the gun rules in CO are gay. Not to mention the building codes, speed limits, murder laws, and others. You should probably move to the bottom of the ocean.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 2:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Officials in nearby town, The Colony, Texas, are considering approving  all city employees with weapon permit to tote on the job.

One goal, I suppose, is to make the city safer???

Of course, giving a negative Performance Review to a city employee might require a bit more finesse.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 2:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 10:03 am)
QUOTE

(Marmotstew @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:36 pm)
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(hbfa @ Feb. 20 2013, 12:23 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 20 2013, 4:01 am)
QUOTE
There go my plans to ever move back

And I' sure their hearts are breaking over that!  :laugh:

We're devastated. Seriously, letting your life be run by states gun laws is sad.

So yu think people should flock to states that do not value personal freedom?

If you see this as proof that the state of Colorado does not value personal freedom, and as a legitimate reason not to move there, then you most certainly have an unhealthy obsession with firearms.  And you wonder why people throw the term "gun nut" around?  Scheesh!
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 6:23 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This is what happens when too many liberal idiots are allowed to immigrate from Commiefornia....they ruin a perfectly good state


Hmm, actually, I am a third generation native of Colorado.  Even though you don't like it, a lot of clear thinking liberals have always been in Colorado.  One of the things that makes it such a great state.

I am willing to bet that we will gain more jobs than we lose, if we actually lose any.

And these are just baby steps, like the first seat belt laws in the 60's.  Need to keep adding incrementally until we have made guns more safe in the same way we have made cars much more safe over the decades.  One sensible step at a time.

None of these things will stop every one of the mass killings, nothing will do that, but cutting them down, making them much less frequent, and making them much less deadly when they do happen will be an important and intelligent improvement for life in Colorado and the rest of America.

It is time to apply our energy and our ingenuity to making guns less deadly in the hands of a mass killer.

Thank you for taking the first step, Colorado legislators.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 8:33 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't own guns that require batteries to operate, and I never will.  That goes for laser sights, etc.

I travel during the week for work and my wife is at home.  She's not into guns, but keeps a can of bear spray under the nightstand.  Hear me out though.   Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 10:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Feb. 20 2013, 8:33 pm)
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Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?

Be a lot smarter to buy her bear spray then huh?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 20 2013, 10:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Feb. 20 2013, 5:33 pm)
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I don't own guns that require batteries to operate, and I never will.  That goes for laser sights, etc.

I travel during the week for work and my wife is at home.  She's not into guns, but keeps a can of bear spray under the nightstand.  Hear me out though.   Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?

What if your wife wasn't killed by the intruder with your own weapon because it was smart gun?

We are capable of coming up with imaginary scenarios.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 6:01 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Feb. 20 2013, 8:33 pm)
QUOTE
I don't own guns that require batteries to operate, and I never will.  That goes for laser sights, etc.

I travel during the week for work and my wife is at home.  She's not into guns, but keeps a can of bear spray under the nightstand.  Hear me out though.   Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?

Which is why we don't have "smart" fire extinguishers :laugh:

Nice open letter to the Pres from a Columbine survivor here


"Mr. President,

As a student who was shot and wounded during the Columbine massacre, I have a few thoughts on the current gun debate. In regards to your gun control initiatives:

Universal Background Checks

First, a universal background check will have many devastating effects. It will arguably have the opposite impact of what you propose. If adopted, criminals will know that they can not pass a background check legally, so they will resort to other avenues. With the conditions being set by this initiative, it will create a large black market for weapons and will support more criminal activity and funnel additional money into the hands of thugs, criminals, and people who will do harm to American citizens.

Second, universal background checks will create a huge bureaucracy that will cost an enormous amount of tax payers dollars and will straddle us with more debt. We cannot afford it now, let alone create another function of government that will have a huge monthly bill attached to it.

Third, is a universal background check system possible without universal gun registration? If so, please define it for us. Universal registration can easily be used for universal confiscation. I am not at all implying that you, sir, would try such a measure, but we do need to think about our actions through the lens of time.

It is not impossible to think that a tyrant, to the likes of Mao, Castro, Che, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and others, could possibly rise to power in America. It could be five, ten, twenty, or one hundred years from now — but future generations have the natural right to protect themselves from tyrannical government just as much as we currently do. It is safe to assume that this liberty that our forefathers secured has been a thorn in the side of would-be tyrants ever since the Second Amendment was adopted.

Ban on Military-Style Assault Weapons

The evidence is very clear pertaining to the inadequacies of the assault weapons ban. It had little to no effect when it was in place from 1994 until 2004. It was during this time that I personally witnessed two fellow students murder twelve of my classmates and one teacher. The assault weapons ban did not deter these two murderers, nor did the other thirty-something laws that they broke.

Gun ownership is at an all time high. And although tragedies like Columbine and Newtown are exploited by ideologues and special-interest lobbying groups, crime is at an all time low. The people have spoken. Gun store shelves have been emptied. Gun shows are breaking attendance records. Gun manufacturers are sold out and back ordered. Shortages on ammo and firearms are countrywide. The American people have spoken and are telling you that our Second Amendment shall not be infringed.

10-Round Limit for Magazines

Virginia Tech was the site of the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history. Seung-Hui Cho used two of the smallest caliber hand guns manufactured and a handful of ten round magazines. There are no substantial facts that prove that limited magazines would make any difference at all.
Second, this is just another law that endangers law-abiding citizens. I’ve heard you ask, “why does someone need 30 bullets to kill a deer?”

Let me ask you this: Why would you prefer criminals to have the ability to out-gun law-abiding citizens? Under this policy, criminals will still have their 30-round magazines, but the average American will not. Whose side are you on?

Lastly, when did they government get into the business of regulating “needs?” This is yet another example of government overreaching and straying from its intended purpose.

Selling to Criminals

Mr. President, these are your words: “And finally, Congress needs to help, rather than hinder, law enforcement as it does its job. We should get tougher on people who buy guns with the express purpose of turning around and selling them to criminals. And we should severely punish anybody who helps them do this.”

Why don’t we start with Eric Holder and thoroughly investigate the Fast and Furious program?

Furthermore, the vast majority of these mass murderers bought their weapons legally and jumped through all the hoops —  because they were determined to murder. Adding more hoops and red tape will not stop these types of people. It doesn’t now — so what makes you think it will in the future? Criminals who cannot buy guns legally just resort to the black market.

Criminals and murderers will always find a way.

Critical Examination

Mr. President, in theory, your initiatives and proposals sound warm and fuzzy — but in reality they are far from what we need. Your initiatives seem to punish law-abiding American citizens and enable the murderers, thugs, and other lowlifes who wish to do harm to others.

Let me be clear: These ideas are the worst possible initiatives if you seriously care about saving lives and also upholding your oath of office. There is no dictate, law, or regulation that will stop bad things from happening — and you know that. Yet you continue to push the rhetoric. Why?

You said, “If we can save just one person it is worth it.” Well here are a few ideas that will save more that one individual:

First, forget all of your current initiatives and 23 purposed executive orders. They will do nothing more than impede law-abiding citizens and breach the intent of the Constitution. Each initiative steals freedom, grants more power to an already-overreaching government, and empowers and enables criminals to run amok.

Second, press Congress to repeal the “Gun Free Zone Act.” Don’t allow America’s teachers and students to be endangered one-day more. These parents and teachers have the natural right to defend themselves and not be looked at as criminals. There is no reason teachers must disarm themselves to perform their jobs. There is also no reason a parent or volunteer should be disarmed when they cross the school line.

This is your chance to correct history and restore liberty. This simple act of restoring freedom will deter would-be murderers and for those who try, they will be met with resistance.

Mr. President, do the right thing, restore freedom, and save lives. Show the American people that you stand with them and not with thugs and criminals.

Respectfully,

Severely Concerned Citizen, Evan M. Todd
"


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 8:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(justwalkin @ Feb. 20 2013, 8:33 pm)
QUOTE
Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?

Then YOU weren't too smart in the first place... knowing that your wife couldn't shoot your gun. Solution, buy her a gun. Wife safe. NRA and gun manufacturers happy.

BTW, where the hell do all you people live where you're in constant fear of your lives, dreaming up scenarios about how your wife is going to be murdered by an entire gang of armed thugs while you're away? I kinda like the fact that we don't even have to lock the doors in our town... but hey, that's me.

ETA: I don't think it would take a great leap in technology to allow mulitple users of one smart gun.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 8:42 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What other injustices are you willing accept for the mere potential of a safer society?

A means testing for guns? That is, if there is a correlation between poverty and gun violence, should individuals in poverty be barred from owning a firearm?

What about racial profiling? Would a correlation with race and gun violence justify a firearm disability?

Gender? Sexual preference? Religious beliefs?

Further, why only limit it to guns laws? There are plenty of other measures that have the potential to prevent violence.

Restrict gatherings of more than 10 individuals?
Ban Alcohol?
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(markinOhio @ Feb. 21 2013, 8:42 am)
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What other injustices are you willing accept for the mere potential of a safer society?

....

Who are you addressing?

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 8:57 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Anyone that supports more restrictive gun laws.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 9:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(WalksWithBlackflies @ Feb. 21 2013, 8:17 am)
QUOTE

(justwalkin @ Feb. 20 2013, 8:33 pm)
QUOTE
Suppose your wife was at home while you were away, but she was brutally murdered because she tried to pull the trigger on your S&W .38 special to defend herself against the murderer but it didn't fire.

You buried your wife because you bought a smart gun.  Not so smart in retrospect, is it?

Then YOU weren't too smart in the first place... knowing that your wife couldn't shoot your gun. Solution, buy her a gun. Wife safe. NRA and gun manufacturers happy.

BTW, where the hell do all you people live where you're in constant fear of your lives, dreaming up scenarios about how your wife is going to be murdered by an entire gang of armed thugs while you're away? I kinda like the fact that we don't even have to lock the doors in our town... but hey, that's me.

ETA: I don't think it would take a great leap in technology to allow mulitple users of one smart gun.

As I have styated before, I will consider snart guns a viable option when all law enforcement and secret service switch over to them.

But that will not happen, because a simple "glitch" turns a "smart" gun into a poorly designed impact weapon

Hundreds of years of work to make weapons dependable and reliable screwed up by some bleeding hearts :laugh:


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 9:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This sounds encouraging....possible common sense from Hickenlooper

http://coloradopeakpolitics.com/2013....ine-ban


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 10:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Read the fine print. 18-12-302 paragraph 2a

The bill only makes the transfer and sale of new high capacity magazines illegal.  It has no effect on existing weapons.

The only effect this will have is that people who were not even considering purchasing a weapon will now rush out and buy one before the law goes into effect (July 1, 2013)

I plan on selling my three 30 rnd SKS mags to my kids for $1.00.  That way, when I give them the rifle, it will not be considered a transfer.

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(markinOhio @ Feb. 21 2013, 5:57 am)
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Anyone that supports more restrictive gun laws.

YOU support restrictive arms laws.  We already established that before.

It seems a bit self-centered to think that you should be the one to decide if any further laws are reasonable or not.  And that anything not meeting your ideals is automatically an intolerable violation of our constitutional rights.
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(BillBab @ Feb. 21 2013, 6:31 am)
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As I have styated before, I will consider snart guns a viable option when all law enforcement and secret service switch over to them.

Would you also be willing to require gun owners to undergo the same level of background checks, psychological evaluations, and firearms training that all law enforcement and Secret Service receive?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 11:31 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(hbfa @ Feb. 21 2013, 10:59 am)
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(markinOhio @ Feb. 21 2013, 5:57 am)
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Anyone that supports more restrictive gun laws.

YOU support restrictive arms laws.  We already established that before.

It seems a bit self-centered to think that you should be the one to decide if any further laws are reasonable or not.  And that anything not meeting your ideals is automatically an intolerable violation of our constitutional rights.

If my statements suggested that I alone make judgments for everyone, then I apologize for my words. That certainly is not how I feel. But, I’m still curious as to how far people are willing to go for the mere possibility of a safer society, and if that is limited to only gun laws.
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hbfa Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 11:54 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(markinOhio @ Feb. 21 2013, 8:31 am)
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(hbfa @ Feb. 21 2013, 10:59 am)
QUOTE

(markinOhio @ Feb. 21 2013, 5:57 am)
QUOTE
Anyone that supports more restrictive gun laws.

YOU support restrictive arms laws.  We already established that before.

It seems a bit self-centered to think that you should be the one to decide if any further laws are reasonable or not.  And that anything not meeting your ideals is automatically an intolerable violation of our constitutional rights.

If my statements suggested that I alone make judgments for everyone, then I apologize for my words. That certainly is not how I feel. But, I’m still curious as to how far people are willing to go for the mere possibility of a safer society, and if that is limited to only gun laws.

I understand the points you are trying to make with your comparisons.  I just believe that each and every issue or risk has to be judged on its own merits.  There are no blanket solutions or answers to these questions.

We all have are own opinions of what makes sense and what is acceptable.  Personally, I think a blanket AWB is of questionable value.  There are many arms with the same destructive power that wouldn't be included.  (Though I am troubled by the fact that military look-alikes are so popular with many gun enthusiasts - it just smells of infatuation to me).  

I am in favor or background checks, firearm registration, basic training requirements and brief waiting periods for purchases.  I don't see these requirements as unreasonable infringements to my rights.  And I am open-minded to new technology that may lead to safer firearms.
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