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Topic: Soon for California: Discriminate?, Lose your tax-exempt status< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 3:19 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Choice" is a good thing. BSA get's to choose.

http://www.johnmbecker.com/tag/sb-323/

and
Boy Scouts could lose tax break for gay ban

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news....ZD9UmCu
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Good.  We can start by revoking the tax-exempt status of the UC system, and a myriad of others -- for discriminating against well-qualified Asian American applicants!

Separately, I do agree that non-church (religious) organizations should lose their tax-exemption status if they choose to discriminate.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The entire world can't go to Berkeley! (and "qualified" get's you considered never in)

:D

ETA: Come on you're slacking: I had the under in how long it would take for you to whine about something "China" in that glacier retreat thread. You know you're killing my spread.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If racial barriers were all removed, I wouldn't be surprised if Berkeley becomes 40% Asian American.  I also think that if government agencies were to eliminate all racial barriers as well -- a lot of minority-owned businesses would be too small and too weak to compete.

I gave you my view re. the tax exempt status of BSA.  But I also believe, as in the case of Ricardo Lara -- there's an awful lot of cherry picking here.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:22 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

yes...punishment always helps bring folks around to your way of thinking

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:28 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(BillBab @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:22 pm)
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yes...punishment always helps bring folks around to your way of thinking

But is it punishment or fairness?

I believe in separation between church and state.  Bona fide churches should never be subject to taxation from secular government -- just as churches should never hold sway over secular government.

But Boy Scouts?   If they are truly non-profit, there should be little to no net income to be taxed on, correct?


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

This one could be a landmark. If it stands, it's not a stretch to wonder when churches could face the same issue if they wont perform same sex marriages in States where they're legal. Probably not much chance right now since as far as I know, no state currently requires any objecting church to perform such ceremonies but I bet that will be challenged too. This one will be interesting to watch.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:12 pm)
QUOTE
If racial barriers were all removed, I wouldn't be surprised if Berkeley becomes 40% Asian American.  I also think that if government agencies were to eliminate all racial barriers as well -- a lot of minority-owned businesses would be too small and too weak to compete.

I gave you my view re. the tax exempt status of BSA.  But I also believe, as in the case of Ricardo Lara -- there's an awful lot of cherry picking here.

"40%"?

So it would DROP?

That's interesting.

"Greg Dubrow, director of research and policy analysis in the Office of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of California at Berkeley – where Asian-American students make up 45 percent of the undergraduate population but only 14 percent of the state’s population

Read more: http://www.insidehighered.com/news....ZWf0E2i
Inside Higher Ed
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 21 2013, 4:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
QUOTE
This one could be a landmark. If it stands, it's not a stretch to wonder when churches could face the same issue if they wont perform same sex marriages in States where they're legal. Probably not much chance right now since as far as I know, no state currently requires any objecting church to perform such ceremonies but I bet that will be challenged too. This one will be interesting to watch.

Religion as it's treated in the Constitution gives churches a large amount of leeway, IMHO. But there may come a time. The huge child-rape Roman Catholic Church criminal record amongst other things has certainly eroded feelings of unquestioning support for churches in the public sphere....
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 3:43 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
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This one could be a landmark. If it stands, it's not a stretch to wonder when churches could face the same issue if they wont perform same sex marriages in States where they're legal. Probably not much chance right now since as far as I know, no state currently requires any objecting church to perform such ceremonies but I bet that will be challenged too. This one will be interesting to watch.
No church is required to do any marriage and I doubt if that will ever change in this country (USA). The church does not require a reason to refuse a marriage of any type. But that a male with blue eyes wants to marry a woman with brown eyes is more than enough reason for any church to deny their marriage. They can even legally deny because of race. Or no reason at all.

But the BSA is not a religion and is under a different set of rules.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 4:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
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"Greg Dubrow, director of research and policy analysis in the Office of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of California at Berkeley – where Asian-American students make up 45 percent of the undergraduate population but only 14 percent of the state’s population

IMAO, they should be totally color blind, either you qualify or you do not. If that means they end up with 100% Asians, so be it. The rest better try harder next time.

Just the fact that they know the percentages means they are doing something wrong, IMAO.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 5:50 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 3:43 am)
QUOTE

(JimInMD @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
QUOTE
This one could be a landmark. If it stands, it's not a stretch to wonder when churches could face the same issue if they wont perform same sex marriages in States where they're legal. Probably not much chance right now since as far as I know, no state currently requires any objecting church to perform such ceremonies but I bet that will be challenged too. This one will be interesting to watch.
No church is required to do any marriage and I doubt if that will ever change in this country (USA). The church does not require a reason to refuse a marriage of any type. But that a male with blue eyes wants to marry a woman with brown eyes is more than enough reason for any church to deny their marriage. They can even legally deny because of race. Or no reason at all.

But the BSA is not a religion and is under a different set of rules.

-Don-

I understand and agree that they probably can't be forced to perform the ceremony.  I wonder if they could be stripped of tax exempt status though.  

Maybe not, I'm just theorizing out loud.


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 5:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 4:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
QUOTE
"Greg Dubrow, director of research and policy analysis in the Office of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of California at Berkeley – where Asian-American students make up 45 percent of the undergraduate population but only 14 percent of the state’s population

IMAO, they should be totally color blind, either you qualify or you do not. If that means they end up with 100% Asians, so be it. The rest better try harder next time.

Just the fact that they know the percentages means they are doing something wrong, IMAO.

-Don-

Agreed.

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"Your number one philosophy for personal security should be a life long commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 7:22 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(JimInMD @ Feb. 22 2013, 2:50 am)
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I understand and agree that they probably can't be forced to perform the ceremony.  I wonder if they could be stripped of tax exempt status though.  

Maybe not, I'm just theorizing out loud.

I would say no, they cannot lose anything, by refusing marriages to anybody.

However, when they get involved in politics to stop same-sex marriage for those outside their own religion, then, IMAO, they should be considered a politcal organization and then lose it.

An example of a very-anti gay group who go totally by the rules would be the Jehovah Witlessness. They stay completely out of politics as much as possible. In fact, IIRC, they even refuse to vote.

I have no problem with the JW's because  they keep their nonsense to themselves, unlike the Catholics and Mormons who wish to push their superstitious nonsense on the rest of the world.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 10:03 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think the Mormons should have lost their status when they bankrolled that anti-gay marriage initiative. When you bring your politics out of the church you're no longer a church, you're a political action committee that should be taxed heavily IMO.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 11:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 1:09 am)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:37 pm)
QUOTE
"Greg Dubrow, director of research and policy analysis in the Office of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of California at Berkeley – where Asian-American students make up 45 percent of the undergraduate population but only 14 percent of the state’s population

IMAO, they should be totally color blind, either you qualify or you do not. If that means they end up with 100% Asians, so be it. The rest better try harder next time.

Just the fact that they know the percentages means they are doing something wrong, IMAO.

-Don-

The metrics to forming a student body are a lot more complex than simply lining up a test score and starting from the top (which is actually outlined in the link): and that means were they to NOT know their students , including their cultural backgrounds, then they'd be neglecting their responsibilities for managing the school.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 2:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Feb. 21 2013, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:22 pm)
QUOTE
yes...punishment always helps bring folks around to your way of thinking

But is it punishment or fairness?

I believe in separation between church and state.  Bona fide churches should never be subject to taxation from secular government -- just as churches should never hold sway over secular government.

But Boy Scouts?   If they are truly non-profit, there should be little to no net income to be taxed on, correct?

Don't be surprised about the income. Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield of PA is a nonprofit and has billions in cash.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 2:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Panhandler @ Feb. 22 2013, 11:29 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 21 2013, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:22 pm)
QUOTE
yes...punishment always helps bring folks around to your way of thinking

But is it punishment or fairness?

I believe in separation between church and state.  Bona fide churches should never be subject to taxation from secular government -- just as churches should never hold sway over secular government.

But Boy Scouts?   If they are truly non-profit, there should be little to no net income to be taxed on, correct?

Don't be surprised about the income. Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield of PA is a nonprofit and has billions in cash.

Indeed:
"Although it is officially a nonprofit unit of the University of Texas, MD Anderson has revenue that exceeds the cost of the world-class care it provides by so much that its operating profit for the fiscal year 2010, the most recent annual report it filed with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, was $531 million. That’s a profit margin of 26% on revenue of $2.05 billion, an astounding result for such a service-intensive enterprise.1"

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013....espoXzN
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 8:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 7:22 am)
QUOTE

(JimInMD @ Feb. 22 2013, 2:50 am)
QUOTE
I understand and agree that they probably can't be forced to perform the ceremony.  I wonder if they could be stripped of tax exempt status though.  

Maybe not, I'm just theorizing out loud.

I would say no, they cannot lose anything, by refusing marriages to anybody.

However, when they get involved in politics to stop same-sex marriage for those outside their own religion, then, IMAO, they should be considered a politcal organization and then lose it.

An example of a very-anti gay group who go totally by the rules would be the Jehovah Witlessness. They stay completely out of politics as much as possible. In fact, IIRC, they even refuse to vote.

I have no problem with the JW's because  they keep their nonsense to themselves, unlike the Catholics and Mormons who wish to push their superstitious nonsense on the rest of the world.

-Don-

So churches  shouldn't have the freedom to weigh in on moral issues affecting society at large?
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 11:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Three @ Feb. 22 2013, 5:46 pm)
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So churches  shouldn't have the freedom to weigh in on moral issues affecting society at large?
They should be able to give their opinions but not through politics and law. If you want government out of your church, you should want your church to stay out of government and not be trying to pass laws based on your religious nonsense.

BTW, how would you like the JW nonsense to be forced on you and your church by law?

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 22 2013, 11:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 22 2013, 8:32 am)
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The metrics to forming a student body are a lot more complex than simply lining up a test score and starting from the top

Nonsense, IMAO. Have the testing as practical as possible and give it to everybody, with no regard to race and such.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 23 2013, 10:46 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 11:25 pm)
QUOTE

(Three @ Feb. 22 2013, 5:46 pm)
QUOTE
So churches  shouldn't have the freedom to weigh in on moral issues affecting society at large?
They should be able to give their opinions but not through politics and law. If you want government out of your church, you should want your church to stay out of government and not be trying to pass laws based on your religious nonsense.

BTW, how would you like the JW nonsense to be forced on you and your church by law?

-Don-

Funny how accepting you are of private groups that support your agenda :laugh:

All the rest of them are (apparently) evil


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(BillBab @ Feb. 23 2013, 7:46 am)
QUOTE
Funny how accepting you are of private groups that support your agenda :laugh:

All the rest of them are (apparently) evil

Please give an example where I support anything other than equality.

-Don-


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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 24 2013, 10:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Bab to support his position since the Reverend Moon can't give him the answer.
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 22 2013, 2:37 pm)
QUOTE

(Panhandler @ Feb. 22 2013, 11:29 am)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Feb. 21 2013, 4:28 pm)
QUOTE

(BillBab @ Feb. 21 2013, 1:22 pm)
QUOTE
yes...punishment always helps bring folks around to your way of thinking

But is it punishment or fairness?

I believe in separation between church and state.  Bona fide churches should never be subject to taxation from secular government -- just as churches should never hold sway over secular government.

But Boy Scouts?   If they are truly non-profit, there should be little to no net income to be taxed on, correct?

Don't be surprised about the income. Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield of PA is a nonprofit and has billions in cash.

Indeed:
"Although it is officially a nonprofit unit of the University of Texas, MD Anderson has revenue that exceeds the cost of the world-class care it provides by so much that its operating profit for the fiscal year 2010, the most recent annual report it filed with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, was $531 million. That’s a profit margin of 26% on revenue of $2.05 billion, an astounding result for such a service-intensive enterprise.1"

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013....espoXzN

Time magazine has a good article this week about health care. Many non-profit hospitals make millions in profit.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 2:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 4:09 am)
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IMAO, they should be totally color blind, either you qualify or you do not. If that means they end up with 100% Asians, so be it.

Then it would be UCLA or UCI.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 25 2013, 1:31 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(DonTom @ Feb. 22 2013, 8:41 pm)
QUOTE

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 22 2013, 8:32 am)
QUOTE
The metrics to forming a student body are a lot more complex than simply lining up a test score and starting from the top

Nonsense, IMAO. Have the testing as practical as possible and give it to everybody, with no regard to race and such.

-Don-

What's nonsense is the fantasy that "testing" is ever "as practical as possible" across the board.

What "test" for what? A nuclear physics major, poetry student? Pre-med or pre-law?

One size does NOT fit all. And "qualify" is an empty term absent all the entrance standards that make up the complex issue that is university admissions.
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 25 2013, 10:31 am)
QUOTE
What's nonsense is the fantasy that "testing" is ever "as practical as possible" across the board.
If that's the case, whose fault would that be?

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 25 2013, 10:31 am)
QUOTE
What "test" for what? A nuclear physics major, poetry student? Pre-med or pre-law?
Makes no difference what they are testing for, there is only one race, the human race.

(High_Sierra_Fan @ Feb. 25 2013, 10:31 am)
QUOTE

One size does NOT fit all. And "qualify" is an empty term absent all the entrance standards that make up the complex issue that is university admissions.
Then fix the problem, but don't have quotas for different races and such. And why shouldn't  one test fit all? Or should we have a different test to be fair those those with low IQ's and let such be doctors and such? Where do you think we should draw the line?

-Don-  SSF, CA


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