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Buggyboo 
Group: Members
Posts: 1024
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 1:21 pm |
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Would be sincerely be interested in knowing what folks would do while waiting;
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e2_1362648345
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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| Post Number: 2
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nogods
Group: Members
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 1:30 pm |
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Stupid questions get stupid answers.
I'll bet the person who made that video doesn't have a defibrillator in their house.
I'll bet they don't always have a person trained in CPR in their house with them.
What do they do while waiting for the emt's to show up?
If gunuts want to be taken seriously they have to stop promoting adolescent BS.
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hbfa
Group: Members
Posts: 7068
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 3:59 pm |
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(Buggyboo @ Mar. 07 2013, 10:37 am)
QUOTE
(nogods @ Mar. 07 2013, 1:30 pm)
QUOTE Stupid questions get stupid answers.
I'll bet the person who made that video doesn't have a defibrillator in their house.
I'll bet they don't always have a person trained in CPR in their house with them.
What do they do while waiting for the emt's to show up?
If gunuts want to be taken seriously they have to stop promoting adolescent BS. Interesting answer! However, I was looking for a real answer to the question, not the film makers impression to you with all due respect!
I own firearms for home protection. I would collect my family members in as safe a place as possible under the circumstances and prepare to defend, if necessary. I'm not going on the offense to protect a bunch of "stuff" though. Protecting my family is another story.
But Nogods makes a valid comparison.
If you or a family member were having a heart attack, what would you do while you wait for the paramedics show up?
After all, you are far more likely to have keel over from a heart attack in your own home than you are to be shot by an intruder.
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39513
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 4:18 pm |
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Do you at least have fire extinguishers? In looking at the odds fire is WAY higher on the list of security issues than invasion. And when that happens you lose far more than the expensive stuff: you lose ALL the precious stuff of a lifetime. "Up in smoke" as it were.
Speaking of home security.
It's like (IMHO) people who wander out into the wild all strapped for bear defense and yet they do not have a clue as to their allergic status with regard to Bee stings. The FAR and away larger wildlife killer of humans.
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BillBab
Group: Members
Posts: 4486
Joined: Sep. 2008
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 5:59 pm |
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I know CPR and I have fire extinguishers
And yet I do not know anyone that has either had a heart attack or had their house burn down
But I do know people that have been robbed at gunpoint
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"Asking liberals where wages and prices come from is like asking six-year-olds where babies come from."
Thomas Sowell
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| Post Number: 10
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nogods
Group: Members
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Mar. 07 2013, 6:06 pm |
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(pass-thru @ Mar. 07 2013, 4:23 pm)
QUOTE
(nogods @ Mar. 07 2013, 1:30 pm)
QUOTE I'll bet the person who made that video doesn't have a defibrillator in their house.
I'll bet they don't always have a person trained in CPR in their house with them.
What do they do while waiting for the emt's to show up? I hope you don't use an inept analogy like that for your paying clients: if they want to get a defibrillator, they can. The point of the question is, what do they do when they are prohibited from take the precaution of having a firearm, if they choose.
The failed reasoning is the jump from "the police can't get there in time" to "that means I should be allowed to have a gun and have it now."
That reasoning would compel that we allow every 14 to 21 year old the ability to "have a gun and have it now". Even convicted felons should be allowed to "have a gun and have it now" to protect themselves.
A person who doesn't worry about protecting themselves from more common hazards shouldn't expect anyone to take their inane reasoning seriously about other perceived hazards.
He can apply for a permit. Assuming he isn't as stupid as the video depicts, he might actually get one.
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Raznation
Why surf when you can make waves!
Group: Members
Posts: 23529
Joined: Sep. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 7:04 am |
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This thread is full of FAIL and nearly all of them are from the gunsluts.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 7:20 am |
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We are encouraged and even sometimes required to get fire extinguishers, smoke detectors and various fire systems all the way up to sprinklers to protect our house until the pros arrive. "Just in case".
We are encouraged to learn first aid and CPR for med emergencies until the pros arrive. "Just in case".
Many work places now have defib units until the pros arrive. "Just in case".
We are required to have insurance for many things. "Just in case".
We are required by law to wear seatbelts in motor vehicles. "Just in case".
But then we are told that we should not, and quite often mandated by law in some places cannot, have a firearm for self defense until the pros arrive. "Just in case".
Hypocrisy.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 11:16 am |
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(TigerFan @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:33 am)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:20 am)
QUOTE Hypocrisy. Well, I guess it's pointless to talk about "common sense" laws when gun proponents insist on playing dumb just to be argumentative. If you're not capable of understanding the difference in the risk potential of a gun vs a seatbelt, then you have no business owning one. JMO.
Since you cannot comprehend the hypocrisy, you have no legitimate voice in a discussion on gun ownership.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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| Post Number: 17
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TigerFan
Group: Members
Posts: 1992
Joined: May 2010
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 11:41 am |
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(Montanalonewolf @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:16 am)
QUOTE
(TigerFan @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:33 am)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:20 am)
QUOTE Hypocrisy. Well, I guess it's pointless to talk about "common sense" laws when gun proponents insist on playing dumb just to be argumentative. If you're not capable of understanding the difference in the risk potential of a gun vs a seatbelt, then you have no business owning one. JMO. Since you cannot comprehend the hypocrisy, you have no legitimate voice in a discussion on gun ownership.
Are you assuming that 'comprehend' = 'agree'?
Note that I said nothing about me not understanding your assertion that it's a hypocrisy. I just don't agree with your assertion.
So, basically, you think my opinion is invalid if I don't agree with your logic. Not surprising.
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Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 1:52 pm |
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(TehipiteTom @ Mar. 08 2013, 10:47 am)
QUOTE
(nogods @ Mar. 07 2013, 10:30 am)
QUOTE Stupid questions get stupid answers.
I'll bet the person who made that video doesn't have a defibrillator in their house.
I'll bet they don't always have a person trained in CPR in their house with them.
What do they do while waiting for the emt's to show up? Terrible analogy. Defibrillators & CPR training actually serve to prevent heart attack deaths. They're legitimate safety measures. Owning a gun, however, actually makes one much more likely to die from gun violence. It's the opposite of safety. So you see, they're not the same at all.
I think nogods is simply saying that there will always be times when we are left alone -- to wait -- be it for the police or fire fighters or EMS.
To expect government service not just 24/7 -- but instantly available at the precise moment of need -- is completely unrealistic. And probably a sense of entitlement gone berserk.
Separately, and making general statements here, having to be on our own for x minutes -- can a gun ever be useful? Of course! But that doesn't mean we all need to own guns. Not at all. Statistically, it has been shown that cooperating with intruders maximizes our chances of safety. As well, intruders have turned victims' guns against the victims themselves -- resulting in needless deaths! There has been way too much scaremongering from gun advocates.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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Ben2World
Group: Members
Posts: 23906
Joined: Jun. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 2:58 pm |
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(TehipiteTom @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:45 am)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Mar. 08 2013, 10:52 am)
QUOTE I think nogods is simply saying that there will always be times when we are left alone -- to wait -- be it for the police or fire fighters or EMS. I actually don't disagree with nogods' point there (you may have missed the snarky tone of my comment). I was really just pointing out that the idea of guns as a safety measure at all isn't really based in statistical reality.
I see. Then we are all in agreement here.
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The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page. -- St. Augustine
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| Post Number: 22
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Gabby
Group: Members
Posts: 5492
Joined: Jun. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:23 pm |
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(TehipiteTom @ Mar. 08 2013, 1:45 pm)
QUOTE I was really just pointing out that the idea of guns as a safety measure at all isn't really based in statistical reality.
+1
The contention that guns are like fire extinguishers is apparently the very core of the differences on this issue.
One side believes that guns are like fire extinguishers when you have a fire, and the other believes that they are like gasoline.
Will guns actually reduce violence?
As fire extinguishers (and most of those other items mentioned) are designed to put out a fire, are guns' primary function to reduce violence?
Is it even rational to think that that could work?
Is that contention supported by evidence?
Really? [You know, outside of the "studies" done by John (The-Dog-Ate-My-Homework) Lott?]
ETA: Mind you, I would personally contend that you should be free to try it. I don't have anything against guns per se. But, if you do so, you should be responsible for the results, just as you are responsible for the safe use of your automobile. That's why I favor requiring insurance for ownership of guns. Solves a hell of a lot of problems without demanding restrictions - outside of the serious problems of any dead persons who may be the direct result of your decision should you turn out not to be all that responsible.
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"I wouldn't even know how to begin to find the 'peyote lady', even if I thought it was possible in this incarnation...I'm completely tripped out on everyday life."
"By the way: where am I?"
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| Post Number: 23
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Old Frank
Group: Members
Posts: 621
Joined: Sep. 2007
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 4:38 pm |
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(TehipiteTom @ Mar. 08 2013, 2:45 pm)
QUOTE
(Ben2World @ Mar. 08 2013, 10:52 am)
QUOTE I think nogods is simply saying that there will always be times when we are left alone -- to wait -- be it for the police or fire fighters or EMS. I actually don't disagree with nogods' point there (you may have missed the snarky tone of my comment). I was really just pointing out that the idea of guns as a safety measure at all isn't really based in statistical reality.
Haven't been able to find the stats, but it would be interesting to know:
If a child lives in a home that has guns...what are the odds the kid gets shot by one of those guns by himself or household member....versus being shot outside home by a non-family member?
i.e., is Mom/Dad's gun the biggest gun threat to a kid?.
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My favorite compliment: "GrandPa, I've seen other old men, and their faces are a whole lot cruddier than yours is".
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| Post Number: 24
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Buggyboo
Group: Members
Posts: 1024
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 5:59 pm |
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Just noted a significant drift from the original question of what would you do during the wait.
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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| Post Number: 25
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Gabby
Group: Members
Posts: 5492
Joined: Jun. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 6:29 pm |
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(Buggyboo @ Mar. 08 2013, 4:59 pm)
QUOTE Just noted a significant drift from the original question of what would you do during the wait.
As was stated in post #2 (an appropriately early response), the question itself is kinda stupid.
The implication is, of course, that the only appropriate thing to do "while waiting for police" is to barricade yourself somewhere with your gun. This further implies that, because of the expected egregious time delay, every person should take the "safety precaution" of buying a firearm. The assumption that this would ever be reasonable as a solution is your first hint that your argument might be a tad...what's the phrase? ...uh, "over the top wacko". Kinda like when someone states the reason for having a firearm is to "protect myself from the government."
Yeah, that's gonna work...
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"I wouldn't even know how to begin to find the 'peyote lady', even if I thought it was possible in this incarnation...I'm completely tripped out on everyday life."
"By the way: where am I?"
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no_granola
minor deity
Group: Members
Posts: 12549
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 7:21 pm |
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(Buggyboo @ Mar. 07 2013, 1:37 pm)
QUOTE
(nogods @ Mar. 07 2013, 1:30 pm)
QUOTE Stupid questions get stupid answers.
I'll bet the person who made that video doesn't have a defibrillator in their house.
I'll bet they don't always have a person trained in CPR in their house with them.
What do they do while waiting for the emt's to show up?
If gunuts want to be taken seriously they have to stop promoting adolescent BS. Interesting answer! However, I was looking for a real answer to the question, not the film makers impression to you with all due respect!
I try to keep my dogs from eating the burglar(s).
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The difference between people who think for themselves and those that follow the herd is that thinking people aren't afraid of reality.
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| Post Number: 28
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wwwest
Group: Members
Posts: 4056
Joined: Dec. 2002
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 7:23 pm |
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I would let mine chow down! Except for a rabbit or ground squirrel now and then they don't get fresh meat.
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| Post Number: 29
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Buggyboo
Group: Members
Posts: 1024
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 8:14 pm |
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(Gabby @ Mar. 08 2013, 6:29 pm)
QUOTE
(Buggyboo @ Mar. 08 2013, 4:59 pm)
QUOTE Just noted a significant drift from the original question of what would you do during the wait. As was stated in post #2 (an appropriately early response), the question itself is kinda stupid. The implication is, of course, that the only appropriate thing to do "while waiting for police" is to barricade yourself somewhere with your gun. This further implies that, because of the expected egregious time delay, every person should take the "safety precaution" of buying a firearm. The assumption that this would ever be reasonable as a solution is your first hint that your argument might be a tad...what's the phrase? ...uh, "over the top wacko". Kinda like when someone states the reason for having a firearm is to "protect myself from the government." Yeah, that's gonna work...
Well Gabby, I guess I am asking you to believe me at face value that I am only interested in a pragmatic, individualistic thought or plan of action a responder to my question has in case of the hypothetical situation where one has a 2 to 3 minute window before law enforcement arrives.
No other pretense or implication is involved in my asking this question. I am genuinely curious and I was surprised at some of the answers a few have given.
I'm very interested in what you would do in spite of the tone of your retort.
Oh, BTW, George Washington thought it was a good enough reason to own a gun to "protect myself from the government", I don't know of anyone thinking he was "over the top wacko".
In fact it does work, at one time the British were the government here until everyday gun owners protected themselves from them and dismantled their rule.
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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| Post Number: 30
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Montanalonewolf
Group: Members
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Mar. 08 2013, 9:25 pm |
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(TigerFan @ Mar. 08 2013, 9:41 am)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Mar. 08 2013, 11:16 am)
QUOTE
(TigerFan @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:33 am)
QUOTE
(Montanalonewolf @ Mar. 08 2013, 7:20 am)
QUOTE Hypocrisy. Well, I guess it's pointless to talk about "common sense" laws when gun proponents insist on playing dumb just to be argumentative. If you're not capable of understanding the difference in the risk potential of a gun vs a seatbelt, then you have no business owning one. JMO. Since you cannot comprehend the hypocrisy, you have no legitimate voice in a discussion on gun ownership. Are you assuming that 'comprehend' = 'agree'? Note that I said nothing about me not understanding your assertion that it's a hypocrisy. I just don't agree with your assertion. So, basically, you think my opinion is invalid if I don't agree with your logic. Not surprising.
Your missing the point = incomprehension. Got nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing.
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Ignorance is curable with education. Stupidity is refusing to be educated.
Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't.
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
