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Buggyboo 
Group: Guests
Posts: 1153
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 14 2013, 10:15 am |
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Can't wait to hear the dribble and spin the religious nuts give to this;
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130314/DA50T1382.html
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8830
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 14 2013, 10:24 am |
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It exists because they looked for it.
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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| Post Number: 3
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Squaretop
Group: Members
Posts: 1202
Joined: Feb. 2002
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Posted on: Mar. 14 2013, 2:51 pm |
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Over the next few years it will be interesting to see what this tells us. Primary science at its best. Religion will have no input.
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You can't buy time or memories.
"How'd I get involved".
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KenV
Group: Members
Posts: 5569
Joined: Mar. 2002
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 9:04 pm |
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(Buggyboo @ Mar. 16 2013, 8:26 pm)
QUOTE
(KenV @ Mar. 16 2013, 8:14 pm)
QUOTE
(Buggyboo @ Mar. 14 2013, 10:15 am)
QUOTE I'm pretty religious, believe in the Big Bang theory and see no religious problem with the identification of the Higgs boson. Why do you think religious people would automatically have a problem with this? Not you as an individual Ken. However, a lot of religious dogma has that ever expanding explanation when science overcomes religious superstition such as, " Well it shows god is more cleaver than we thought" answer like when fossils where discovered or the germ theory was found or how natural selection works through evolution.
OK.
So which "religious superstition" do you think this discovery"overcomes"?
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| Post Number: 9
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39801
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 9:11 pm |
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(GoBlueHiker @ Mar. 14 2013, 11:56 am)
QUOTE QUOTE "The preliminary results with the full 2012 data set are magnificent and to me it is clear that we are dealing with a Higgs boson, though we still have a long way to go to know what kind of Higgs boson it is," said Joe Incandela, a physicist who heads one of the two main teams at CERN, each involving several thousand scientists. "what kind of Higgs boson it is,"Oh man, does this mean there's multiple gods? 
Isaac Asimov was right!
His first story title?
The Nine Billion Names of God. A story that has the best final sentence ever written, IMHO.
ETA: Phoo, that was written by Arthur C. Clarke.
Asimov's first story was Nightfall in any case. Still a terrific last sentence.
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| Post Number: 10
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Buggyboo
Group: Guests
Posts: 1153
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 9:12 pm |
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(KenV @ Mar. 16 2013, 9:04 pm)
QUOTE
(Buggyboo @ Mar. 16 2013, 8:26 pm)
QUOTE
(KenV @ Mar. 16 2013, 8:14 pm)
QUOTE
(Buggyboo @ Mar. 14 2013, 10:15 am)
QUOTE I'm pretty religious, believe in the Big Bang theory and see no religious problem with the identification of the Higgs boson. Why do you think religious people would automatically have a problem with this? Not you as an individual Ken. However, a lot of religious dogma has that ever expanding explanation when science overcomes religious superstition such as, " Well it shows god is more cleaver than we thought" answer like when fossils where discovered or the germ theory was found or how natural selection works through evolution. OK. So which "religious superstition" do you think this discovery"overcomes"?
Gosh Ken,
I'm not sure I can even begin to answer that.
But I hope for all of humanity, all of them!
Then again, good science takes a long time so more than likely I will be dead before I see any superstitions refuted.
However, the way technology is growing exponentially, maybe I can live to find out?
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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Buggyboo
Group: Guests
Posts: 1153
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 9:17 pm |
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(High_Sierra_Fan @ Mar. 16 2013, 9:11 pm)
QUOTE
(GoBlueHiker @ Mar. 14 2013, 11:56 am)
QUOTE QUOTE "The preliminary results with the full 2012 data set are magnificent and to me it is clear that we are dealing with a Higgs boson, though we still have a long way to go to know what kind of Higgs boson it is," said Joe Incandela, a physicist who heads one of the two main teams at CERN, each involving several thousand scientists. "what kind of Higgs boson it is,"Oh man, does this mean there's multiple gods? Isaac Asimov was right! His first story title? The Nine Billion Names of God. A story that has the best final sentence ever written, IMHO.
This is something I never heard of!
Thanks for the enlightenment!
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/i/isaac_asimov.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v9aQT9XDaY
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39801
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 11:03 pm |
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Hey Ken?
#WelcomeToThePigeonHole
Did you bring chips?
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39801
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2013, 11:58 pm |
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You'd gotten "pigeonholed" to a "side" from assumption.
That's been occurring enough (assumptions of where posters belong as to "sides") that I guessed there's almost enough people for a party and so chips came to mind.
Not all that significant.
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| Post Number: 17
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KaiWinters
Group: Members
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2013, 12:03 am |
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Ah...interesting subject and drift subjects.
I wonder if god calls it a "me" object.
Does he/she/it object that such a small object be named after it?
Wonder if god will sue for taking his name...after all it is already in use...sort of like "threepete"
Religion is man's means to control the masses before governments became powerful enough to take over.
Imagine a cardinal in full regalia sitting at a lonely telescope on some cold mountain top staring at the universe and god's face appears and says "hey quit staring"...
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Waking up is a great way to start your day...
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| Post Number: 18
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High_Sierra_Fan
Group: Members
Posts: 39801
Joined: Aug. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2013, 12:08 am |
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"Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
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Buggyboo
Group: Guests
Posts: 1153
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2013, 10:15 am |
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(KenV @ Mar. 16 2013, 10:29 pm)
QUOTE
(Buggyboo @ Mar. 16 2013, 9:45 pm)
QUOTE My side!!?? You appear to hold to the notion that science and religion cannot coexist. I deny that notion. I see science and religion using different methods to describe different truths. Religion has its limits, as does science. Science is best used to describe/explain the truths of our physical universe. Religion is best used to describe/explain the truths of human interaction, emotion, and spiritual life. I see zero contradiction between the two. As for science "overcoming superstition" that will NEVER happen. Humans are sadly naturally superstitious. LOTS of folks today substitute (pseudo)scientific superstition for religious superstition. It remains superstition. And on the subject of "food for thought", do you get the meaning of Clarke's The Nine Billion Names of God?
What I meant by posting that Ken, was to present a christian viewpoint since you made it point to say you are one, that was my thinking when I said "your side" when I paired it with the "other side", I meant no slight by it.
Science and religion are totally incomparable from my viewpoint. Science is based on encouraging and rewarding their peers to disprove all status quo theories and explanations no matter how long or how old it has been dogma.
Religion is the complete opposite. They say they know all there is to know via one book to explain everything. Throughout history the penalty for challenge for that has been torture, brutal death, land confiscation and other lessor attacks until very recently.
As far as "Religion is best used to describe/explain the truths of human interaction, emotion, and spiritual life." I find that is far from true. Look at how much death and destruction religion has bestowed upon mankind when they imposed dogma on how to get along. They believe in frighting little children into obeying a fictitious celestial dictator in the sky by fear of eternal fire and torture. Women are to be subservient to man. They welcome death in a cult like way since the real reward is in "heaven" and can't wait for the world to end so they can experience it.
Regarding this; "As for science "overcoming superstition" that will NEVER happen.", science has been doing that for quite some time as in; the earth revolves around the sun instead of the other way around, discovery of the germ theory instead of attributing it to "god's vengeance" nonsense, discovery that volcano eruptions, tsunamis, earthquakes and other natural disasters are from reactions of a cooling plant instead an an angry god.
As time goes by and man is attempting to rise to his full height, these superstitions and tendencies to think that way are evolving away thankfully.
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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Ron.
don't surround yourself with your self
Group: Members
Posts: 11960
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2013, 10:40 am |
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That is an impressive amount of faith in science and human reasoning!
It is good that your faith gives you hope for the future of mankind.
Everybody needs something to believe "in"
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And be kind toward one another
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| Post Number: 21
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
Posts: 3986
Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2013, 6:04 pm |
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It is doing no service to physics to use the misnomer "god particle." Even Higgs regrets having used the phrase. Understanding it, may help to understand the behavior of matter, but will have little or no impact on the sort of truth that religion and philosophy are suited to explore.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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Ron.
don't surround yourself with your self
Group: Members
Posts: 11960
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 12:13 am |
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Something of a misnomer for sure; scientists actually dislike the term because it introduces a metaphysical concept into their theoretical physics.
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And be kind toward one another
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Ron.
don't surround yourself with your self
Group: Members
Posts: 11960
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 9:29 am |
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Actually the book of Job is a poetry book.
To look at it or accuse it of being anything other than an ancient book of Jewish poetry says more about you than the actual work itself.
As far as Galelio is concerned, pretty much all science, scientists and study took place and was funded by the Roman Catholic Church in that era. To say the Roman Catholic Church was anti science is just an uninformed opinion.
Ultimately Galelio was guilty of being bad at politics. The Pope he offended was actually a good friend of his who took offense at the tone of his work every bit as much as he was uncomfortable with the conclusions.
Your opinions are just an example of the failings of our modern education system. Propoganda and agenda driven presupositions in presenting the material are the norm.
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And be kind toward one another
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Montecresto
Group: Members
Posts: 1874
Joined: Jul. 2012
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 9:38 am |
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Many scientific discoveries have opposed religious dogma. I didn't say that the Catholic Church was anti science, I said they don't like it when science conflicts with dogma and science is right. Also, many "believing Protestants" would take issue with your position on Job. But thanks for your input.
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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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| Post Number: 26
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Buggyboo
Group: Guests
Posts: 1153
Joined: Feb. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 9:52 am |
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(Ron. @ Mar. 18 2013, 9:29 am)
QUOTE As far as Galelio is concerned, pretty much all science, scientists and study took place and was funded by the Roman Catholic Church in that era. To say the Roman Catholic Church was anti science is just an uninformed opinion.
Ultimately Galelio was guilty of being bad at politics. The Pope he offended was actually a good friend of his who took offense at the tone of his work every bit as much as he was uncomfortable with the conclusions.
Ron,
I will politely disagree with you on this matter;
http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/galileo.html
http://thequestfortruth.hubpages.com/hub....-Church
"In 1992, Pope John Paul II (reluctantly) formally apologized for the persecution of Galileo. They finally admitted that they, the Catholic Church and all the Popes since the beginning of the Church, were wrong, and that Galileo was right. For fifteen hundred years they had argued that every word in the bible was true-- that it was the perfect word of God, true in it's history and in all of its sciences. They were wrong. They threatened, tortured and killed people who disagreed with this error in the most brutal ways imaginable."
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"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
Charlton Heston
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| Post Number: 27
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KaiWinters
Group: Members
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 3:01 pm |
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Will the next particle be called "god jr." or perhaps "gods second cousin once removed"?
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Waking up is a great way to start your day...
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| Post Number: 28
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WalksWithBlackflies
Resident Eco-Freak Bootlicker
Group: Members
Posts: 8830
Joined: Jun. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 3:12 pm |
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Much of particle/quantum physics sounds a lot like the dogma of eastern religions.
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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. - Lao Tzu
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| Post Number: 29
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Ecocentric
Group: Members
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Joined: Jun. 2009
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 4:50 pm |
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The Tao of Physics and The Dancing Wu Li Masters are both good books that explore the similarities. The difference is that quantum physics can be subjected to both mathematical and experimental scrutiny. Some of the claims for the benefits of meditation have been demonstrated with MRI scans.
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"Travel suggestions from strangers are like dancing lessons from God." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
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| Post Number: 30
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KaiWinters
Group: Members
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 2013
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2013, 10:22 pm |
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Yeah...aliens are real...god made them too...god made everything...yeah, that's the ticket.
The true power of religion is faith...you can justify anything "if you believe".
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Waking up is a great way to start your day...
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Survival Skills 101 • Eat Better
