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Topic: Money Buys Anything, especially your goverment< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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Buggyboo Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 9:48 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Old Bloomy, if it's not your soda cup size, it's your congressman he's telling you that you have to have;

http://www.politico.com/story....50.html


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 9:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Be fair, Buggyboo.  Imagine how much harder the NRA would have to struggle if it couldn't buy our government!?!  :D

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 6:51 pm)
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Be fair, Buggyboo.  Imagine how much harder the NRA would have to struggle if it couldn't buy our government!?!  :D

That's a bit harsh. Chuck was this close to convincing that chair to vote Romney.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:51 pm)
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Be fair, Buggyboo.  Imagine how much harder the NRA would have to struggle if it couldn't buy our government!?!  :D

Is the comparison fair?

NRA is made up of millions of people.

"According to published statements,[1] the NRA's total income for 2011 was $218,983,530, with total expenditures of $231,071,589. In 2010, the organization reported an income of $227.8 million with roughly $115 million in revenue generated from fundraising, sales, advertising and royalties, with the remainder originating from membership dues"

Bloomburg is one individual with a 27 Billion dollar fortune.


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Ron. Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Between the NRA and Bloomberg, only one has used coercive power to impose their will on others.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:27 pm)
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Between the NRA and Bloomberg, only one has used coercive power to impose their will on others.

No, it's really is both of them.

Thank goodness we have those conservatives in the Supreme Court making sure we will never find out who is spending what.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:35 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:29 pm)
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(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:27 pm)
QUOTE
Between the NRA and Bloomberg, only one has used coercive power to impose their will on others.

No, it's really is both of them.

Thank goodness we have those conservatives in the Supreme Court making sure we will never find out who is spending what.

Well we know Bloomberg uses his wealth and position to push legislation through, then has the police power as his muscle. Do what I say, or else.

In what manner has the NRA used violence to achieve their goals?


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:35 pm)
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(Land Rover @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:29 pm)
QUOTE

(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:27 pm)
QUOTE
Between the NRA and Bloomberg, only one has used coercive power to impose their will on others.

No, it's really is both of them.

Thank goodness we have those conservatives in the Supreme Court making sure we will never find out who is spending what.

Well we know Bloomberg uses his wealth and position to push legislation through, then has the police power as his muscle. Do what I say, or else.

In what manner has the NRA used violence to achieve their goals?

Violence - sorry Ron, what you smoking there? You libertarians....

Coercive power. NRA uses money to influence the US political process. It's become the reason for its existence.

You understand what lobbying is right?
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:57 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here in Illinois they are still trying to outlaw some particular guns and accessories.

If they succeed in making them illegal and I were to refuse to turn in my now illegal gun, men with guns will come and use violence to take me away.

That is what a law is, "do it or else".

If you continue to refuse to pay a parking ticket, it is not inconceivable that you can be taken away by force by the police, ie arrested. Laws carry the implicit threat of force being used against you if you disobey.

It really isn't that esoteric or particularly libertarian to acknowledge that reality. What is libertarian is questioning the morality of being buried under mountains of laws and regulations.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 10:59 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:59 pm)
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Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??

Lets say his soda law stood and it became law.

If an establishment continually refused to serve smaller servings and refused to pay the fines eventually guys with guns would be involved.

Taking away the owner, being used as deterrent muscle while the health dept chains the doors shut, there would be a show of force.

The use of the state to impose your will, even benevolently is a form of violence.  

That is why the redress of grievances is in the constitution, the founders understood the coercive nature of law.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 20 2013, 11:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 8:08 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:59 pm)
QUOTE
Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??

Lets say his soda law stood and it became law.

If an establishment continually refused to serve smaller servings and refused to pay the fines eventually guys with guns would be involved.

Taking away the owner, being used as deterrent muscle while the health dept chains the doors shut, there would be a show of force.

The use of the state to impose your will, even benevolently is a form of violence.  

That is why the redress of grievances is in the constitution, the founders understood the coercive nature of law.

All true, but that apply to laws in general, not just Bloomberg's?


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 2:59 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Land Rover @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:38 pm)
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(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:35 pm)
QUOTE

(Land Rover @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:29 pm)
QUOTE

(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:27 pm)
QUOTE
Between the NRA and Bloomberg, only one has used coercive power to impose their will on others.

No, it's really is both of them.

Thank goodness we have those conservatives in the Supreme Court making sure we will never find out who is spending what.

Well we know Bloomberg uses his wealth and position to push legislation through, then has the police power as his muscle. Do what I say, or else.

In what manner has the NRA used violence to achieve their goals?

Violence - sorry Ron, what you smoking there? You libertarians....

Coercive power. NRA uses money to influence the US political process. It's become the reason for its existence.

You understand what lobbying is right?

All special interest groups use money to influence their will. Why just point at the NRA?

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 3:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:59 pm)
QUOTE
Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??

In fairness bud, Ron didn't use the word violent. But if you can enforce your will............

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 3:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 21 2013, 12:02 am)
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(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:59 pm)
QUOTE
Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??

In fairness bud, Ron didn't use the word violent. But if you can enforce your will............

Monte:

See Ron's post no. 11:  "The use of the state to impose your will, even benevolently is a form of violence".


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 3:19 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Your right, I missed that. Are you on the night shift, lol?

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 8:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 10:10 pm)
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(Ron. @ Mar. 20 2013, 8:08 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Mar. 20 2013, 9:59 pm)
QUOTE
Ron:

Bloomberg strikes me as heavy handed (e.g. his soda law) but hardly of a violent nature??

Lets say his soda law stood and it became law.

If an establishment continually refused to serve smaller servings and refused to pay the fines eventually guys with guns would be involved.

Taking away the owner, being used as deterrent muscle while the health dept chains the doors shut, there would be a show of force.

The use of the state to impose your will, even benevolently is a form of violence.  

That is why the redress of grievances is in the constitution, the founders understood the coercive nature of law.

All true, but that apply to laws in general, not just Bloomberg's?

That is my point precisely Ben.

The founders understood that and constructed a constitution that limited government and went to great lengths to insure the peoples rights were preserved.

Unfortunately a constitution cannot preserve the liberty of a people who are hell bent on trading away liberty for supposed security.

Whenever someone starts advocating the changing of laws I like to ask myself; is anyones life, liberty or property being infringed upon by this new legislation?

It truly is amazing how so many people want to run other peoples lives.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 21 2013, 1:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ron. @ Mar. 21 2013, 5:45 am)
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It truly is amazing how so many people want to run other peoples lives.

That I agree.  The French revolutionaries, the Bolshevik revolutionaries....  all started with noble ideals.  And then quickly degenerated into control monsters.  One can also cite a number of similar examples from the religious side as well.  It's the ugly side of our human nature, I suppose.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 23 2013, 9:56 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

And the beat goes on or he just wrote another check;

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo....ongress


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