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Topic: CNN: Charge Bush, Blair for War Crimes, Amazing -- Coming from CNN< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2013, 5:51 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

While not the most rabid, CNN usually portrays a pro American slant.  This CNN commentary calling for Bush and Blair to be tried for war crimes is a rare and refreshing piece of writing from the conscience!  Read more here.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2013, 6:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Wow. Great post Ben. Indeed no small thing coming from CNN. Easy for people to dismiss when it's Press TV or RT News saying it. But CNN!

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2013, 6:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I truly wish to see these two idiots face justice.  And should either survive prison -- I want them to APOLOGIZE to our nation -- and to apologize personally to the fathers and mothers of the 5,000+ American soldiers whose lives were snuffed out -- for this most political and dubious of wars!  :angry:

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2013, 9:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 24 2013, 5:51 pm)
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While not the most rabid, CNN usually portrays a pro American slant.

Only if you read the American version. You posted an op-ed from the international version. The international version is not usually America-centric.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2013, 10:25 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(HighGravity @ Mar. 24 2013, 6:37 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Mar. 24 2013, 5:51 pm)
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While not the most rabid, CNN usually portrays a pro American slant.

Only if you read the American version. You posted an op-ed from the international version. The international version is not usually America-centric.

Thanks, HG... just when I was thinking better of CNN...   :D


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 8:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is still CNN and not easily dismissed. Former bureau chiefs for CNNI and many ME countries have accused the network of having a US bias in their reporting.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 10:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It's an intersting opinion piece, espousing an opinion I strongly disagree with.

But I'm glad CNN published it.  We need a greater diversity of opinions coming from the media.  Such diversity has been lacking for some time.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

What, it's produced by CNNI but label it opinion piece so that everyone else that represents CNNI can stand behind the insulation of it. Meanwhile, the message is still broadcast to 212 nations.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:08 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 8:00 am)
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What, it's produced by CNNI but label it opinion piece so that everyone else that represents CNNI can stand behind the insulation of it. Meanwhile, the message is still broadcast to 212 nations.

Counting is always tricky...   My own list, there are 196 nations.  But there are lists that go higher.  Curious, do you have a link to your 212?  I wonder if it counts Scotland and Wales, etc. as separate countries (as some people would insist that they are)?

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:14 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 25 2013, 11:08 am)
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(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 8:00 am)
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What, it's produced by CNNI but label it opinion piece so that everyone else that represents CNNI can stand behind the insulation of it. Meanwhile, the message is still broadcast to 212 nations.

Counting is always tricky...   My own list, there are 196 nations.  But there are lists that go higher.  Curious, do you have a link to your 212?  I wonder if it counts Scotland and Wales, etc. as separate countries (as some people would insist that they are)?

If Scotland and Wales are independent nations, then it would seem that each of the 50 states in the USA are independent nations.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:45 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 25 2013, 11:08 am)
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(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 8:00 am)
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What, it's produced by CNNI but label it opinion piece so that everyone else that represents CNNI can stand behind the insulation of it. Meanwhile, the message is still broadcast to 212 nations.

Counting is always tricky...   My own list, there are 196 nations.  But there are lists that go higher.  Curious, do you have a link to your 212?  I wonder if it counts Scotland and Wales, etc. as separate countries (as some people would insist that they are)?

CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages
http://www.livetvcenter.com/cnn_2269.asp

I think Wikipedia says over 200.  At any rate the "message" still went out to however many countries CNNI reaches, 196, 200, 212. And it's an American MSN.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:49 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 8:45 am)
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(Ben2World @ Mar. 25 2013, 11:08 am)
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(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 8:00 am)
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What, it's produced by CNNI but label it opinion piece so that everyone else that represents CNNI can stand behind the insulation of it. Meanwhile, the message is still broadcast to 212 nations.

Counting is always tricky...   My own list, there are 196 nations.  But there are lists that go higher.  Curious, do you have a link to your 212?  I wonder if it counts Scotland and Wales, etc. as separate countries (as some people would insist that they are)?

CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages

http://www.worldatlas.com/nations.htm
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:51 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I think Wikipedia says over 200.  At any rate the "message" still went out to however many countries CNNI reaches, 196, 200, 212. And it's an American MSN.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 11:55 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"in over 212 countries and territories"
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 12:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Are there 194 countries? Maybe there's only 179. Apparently depends on who's counting. My point was that CNNI was broadcasting the message to the world largely. Some may consider that a domestic source undermining US credibility, but US foreign policy generally takes care of that itself.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 12:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Others may consider distributing a British barrister's opinion piece about indicting the former Prime Minister of Great Britain alongside the former President of the United States as a logical followup up to his investigation of the Princess of Wales' death...

Maybe more along the lines of eroding the credibility of CNNI than anything else.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 1:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Except that this "opinion" goes all the way to the UN, and is shared by individuals,groups and organisations the world over. Acknowledging the crimes of the Bush and Blair administrations is hardly discrediting. And with only a few remaining hardcore Bush supporters (Chaney himself) still defending the necessity of the Iraq war, it's a logical conclusion.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 1:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 10:27 am)
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Except that this "opinion" goes all the way to the UN, and is shared by individuals,groups and organisations the world over. Acknowledging the crimes of the Bush and Blair administrations is hardly discrediting. And with only a few remaining hardcore Bush supporters (Chaney himself) still defending the necessity of the Iraq war, it's a logical conclusion.

So then how was this  "a domestic source undermining US credibility,"?
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It never was. I said, some may claim that. It is CNNI, owned and operated by CNN presenting the argument that Bush/Blair need to be held accountable for war crimes.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 5:12 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

A lot of us should share the blame, including me.  I voted for Bush in 2000.  We should have examined his credentials a lot more closely and realized he was just mainly an amicable back-slapper.  

And supporters dang sure should have known better to re-elect him in 2004.  Even I was smart enough by then to realize the Iraq invasion was a colossal blunder/hoax and that he was plunging us into a spiral of debt.  

If Bush/Cheney go on trial, a lot of us voters should be standing next to them.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 5:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Don't be too hard on yourself Frank, you don't share THAT much responsibility.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 5:54 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Old Frank @ Mar. 25 2013, 5:12 pm)
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If Bush/Cheney go on trial, a lot of us voters should be standing next to them.

A lot of us WILL be standing next to them.....making sure it doesn't happen.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 6:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh my goodness.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 25 2013, 7:15 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

QUOTE
CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages

My "building blocks" of countries:

UN member countries - 193
Non-UN member:  Vatican City

  Total non-controversial countries - 194

Controversial countries (recognized by at least some UN member states but not all):

Kosovo
Palestine
Taiwan

    Grand total countries - 197

"Live TV Center" list of 212 includes many territories as "independent countries" - such as Puerto Rico!!

Finally, the number I use is 196.  China and Taiwan both officially profess only one China.  While there are currently two governments, it's still officially one country.  My own expectation is that as China continues to prosper and democratize (in its own way) -- there will be eventual reunification of the two.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 25 2013, 4:15 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages

My "building blocks" of countries:
UN member countries - 193
Non-UN member:  Vatican City
  Total non-controversial countries - 194
Controversial countries (recognized by at least some UN member states but not all):
Kosovo
Palestine
Taiwan
    Grand total countries - 197
"Live TV Center" list of 212 includes many territories as "independent countries" - such as Puerto Rico!!
Finally, the number I use is 196.  China and Taiwan both officially profess only one China.  While there are currently two governments, it's still officially one country.  My own expectation is that as China continues to prosper and democratize (in its own way) -- there will be eventual reunification of the two.

The probable source for the. 212 stated 212 "countries and territories" so I could see that reaching 212 beyond the usual recognized nations.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:04 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok man. Thanks for that education. CNNI broadcast that important message to however many countries there are in the world. Think about that.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:09 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Mar. 25 2013, 9:02 pm)
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(Ben2World @ Mar. 25 2013, 4:15 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE
CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages

My "building blocks" of countries:
UN member countries - 193
Non-UN member:  Vatican City
  Total non-controversial countries - 194
Controversial countries (recognized by at least some UN member states but not all):
Kosovo
Palestine
Taiwan
    Grand total countries - 197
"Live TV Center" list of 212 includes many territories as "independent countries" - such as Puerto Rico!!
Finally, the number I use is 196.  China and Taiwan both officially profess only one China.  While there are currently two governments, it's still officially one country.  My own expectation is that as China continues to prosper and democratize (in its own way) -- there will be eventual reunification of the two.

The probable source for the. 212 stated 212 "countries and territories" so I could see that reaching 212 beyond the usual recognized nations.

Maybe they quoted their number in different places... but here's what I read in quotes:

"CNN international is broadcast in over 212 countries, and translated in numerous languages".

Of course, that website is likely unaffiliated with CNN, so I am not faulting CNN here.  In any case, my post above was more to highlight the "correct" count for anyone interested.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:13 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 25 2013, 9:04 pm)
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Ok man. Thanks for that education. CNNI broadcast that important message to however many countries there are in the world. Think about that.

Monte:

CNN's worldwide reach is well known by just about everyone.  I kinda changed topic on you, though, as I wanted to talk more about just how many countries there really are today.  I didn't mean to imply that differences have any bearing at all to CNN's global reach.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:16 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you read the article you can clearly see that Mansfield is a whack job on the same level with Birthers and truthers. CNN gave him a forum to express his views but this is not a CNN editorial.

In the history of the UN please tell me which war they sanctioned. This would mean that every leader of every county, well maybe not Switzerland, needs to be tried as a war criminal. Why just Bush and Blair?

I was certainly no fan of the Iraq war. Getting rid of Saddam, while a good thing, came at a very high price. I remain convinced that even Saddam thought he had chemical weapons.

Even if a toothless agency such as the UN attempted to indict a past leader of any country, friend or foe, the indictment would get vetoed by some member of the security council.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 26 2013, 12:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE


(bill g @ Mar. 25 2013, 9:16 pm)
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If you read the article you can clearly see that Mansfield is a whack job on the same level with Birthers and truthers.  In the history of the UN please tell me which war they sanctioned. This would mean that every leader of every county, well maybe not Switzerland, needs to be tried as a war criminal. Why just Bush and Blair?

I was certainly no fan of the Iraq war. Getting rid of Saddam, while a good thing, came at a very high price. I remain convinced that even Saddam thought he had chemical weapons.

Even if a toothless agency such as the UN attempted to indict a past leader of any country, friend or foe, the indictment would get vetoed by some member of the security council.

1.  You stated your view as if it was obvious and factual -- wrong on both counts.  It's only your opinion.

2.  The UN sanctioned the First Iraq War - see United Nations Security Council Resolution 678.

The UN is sometimes toothless only because member states, including the US, choose to make it toothless.   Notice how few, if anyone, questions the legitimacy of the First Iraq War!  Then compare to W's "coalition of the willing" -- which never got the legitimacy that its creators had hoped for.  This may well be a sign of changing times!

Toothless or not, the UN is a proxy of all the states of the world (Vatican City excepted) -- and as such, a UN war authorization will give a legitimacy unmatched by any single nation or hastily-cobbled coalition of nations.


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