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Topic: Costs for Obamacare set to Skyrocket< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:29 am  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Seems like if your middle class, the rate increase may hit you the hardest

The report, “The Price of Obamacare’s Broken Promises,” begins by noting that while President Barack Obama promised that his healthcare law would shrink premiums by $2,500 for the typical family, “since 2008, the average family premium has instead grown by over $3,000.” What’s more, this has taken place “before Obamacare’s most costly requirements go into effect in 2014.” In other words, it can only get worse.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews....blicans


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 2:00 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ACA hasn't been fully implemented yet and will not be fully implemented until 2014 yet you link to
something that obviously wants people to believe health care costs have increased because of the
ACA. Here is a clue for you. Health care costs have been increasing now for decades. Did you think
they only recently started to increase?

So yet another post that just happens to conform to the right-wing GOP narrative using right-wing
sources(the source you used is a John Birch society publication. That is how far right your source is)
yet you occasional will post threads like the one on Noam Chomsky. Why don't you just come clean
and admit you never really admired Chomsky and these occasional threads you make that seem pro-leftists
you only make to insulate yourself from charges of being a foaming at the
mouth right-wing cretin


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 10:23 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

ACA requirements are crushing doctors. (Btw, 2014 has already arrived for doctors. I own a medical billing company and work with them daily, there's already several deadlines they have had to meet in the last 16 months) the result is that doctors are closing up shop and going to work for the hospitals, for less money, but the hospitals deal with the HASSLES. This is producing fewer doctors offices and clinics where people can get quick quality healthcare. In the end quality and accessibility WILL BE DIMINISHED by ACA, and cost will increase. But run to Obama's defense like the good partisan that you are.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 11:24 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The other side of the ledger, and some reality about what the savings will be when poor people are not relying on the emergency rooms for their basic and only health care provider:

The cost of not having ObamaCare?:  In a study by FamiliesUSA reported that each week 502 Americans die due to a lack of health insurance. That is 2,175 Americans dead each month. The true cost of Obamacare isn't in healthcare costs and taxes, it's in the lives of Americans like you and me.

The same study showed that between 2005 and 2010 that the number of people who died prematurely due to a lack of health coverage a year rose from 20,350 to 26,100.

(These figures are from 2010, Obamacare signed on Oct 1st 2010 made its first steps toward providing quality affordable health insurance to individuals and families struggling with rising health care costs.)

So while there are costs, it is both economic reform and healthcare reform that will decrease payments of many Americans and only impact those who can afford to pay a little more.

The cost of not having ObamaCare isn't just a human issue. ObamaCare helps to reduce health care spending. Currently the $2.8 trillion U.S. healthcare system costs nearly $9,000 a year for every man, woman and child. Growth in health care spending has long outpaced inflation by wide margins, and following the U.S. recession of 2008 and 2009 has contributed to weak job creation, low expansion of wages and a high level of personal bankruptcies.


http://obamacarefacts.com/costof-obamacare.php


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Some of what you are saying is true some of your comments need further comment.

The Affordable Healthcare Act did improve wellness coverage for all Americans. The response from commercial carriers was to increase premiums. Employers increased deductibles. Not a lot of savings there.

Due to government regulations many physicians have stopped private practice and went to work for the hospital. The hospital now adds a facility fee on top of your bill. There has been a five fold increase in payments over the cost of a private doctor. It has been estimated that 50 percent of private practices will close their doors. Soon you will need to go to the outpatient department of the hospital for all your care. No more private calls to your physician about your fever. You will talk to the hospital operator. Obama has increased spending and restricted access to care.

Only the poor will get health insurance at a better rate. If you are middle or upper class you are on your own. There is nothing in the ACA to assist this category of folks with cost.

Stop believing what the media tells you about health care. Talk to you family doctor about what has happened if you still have one.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:14 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

My family doc seems to be doing fine, still very busy and still taking care of us old folks.

But then, a majority of his patients have been on Medicare before ObamaCare, so no real change for him.  He will just get some younger patients who are able to get health insurance now, and not have to see them only in the emergency room.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:19 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Here is some further analysis of the changes that are coming for this year and next:

However, Field points out that employers can use insurance costs for their employees as a business expense that they can write off as a tax deduction. For small businesses, the credit is up to 50 percent of the employer's contribution, and for small non-profit organizations, they can claim up to 35 percent.

On January 1, 2014, the affordable insurance exchanges will be introduced. These state-run programs will allow people to buy individual coverage without regard to their health status. Tax subsidies will be given to the middle class, referring 100 percent to 400 percent of the poverty line who are not eligible for other affordable coverages, so health care can be more affordable, according to Healthcare.gov. In 2010, that 400 percent of the poverty line corresponded to about $43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of four.

There will be four levels of plans: Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze, ranging from 60 percent coverage to 90 percent coverage of health care costs. So far, no price points have been set, but they will be based on actuarial values - basically, how much medical expenses you can expect to pay depending on the services you get, Field explained.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-20....lection


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:30 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(wwwest @ Mar. 31 2013, 12:14 pm)
QUOTE
My family doc seems to be doing fine, still very busy and still taking care of us old folks.

But then, a majority of his patients have been on Medicare before ObamaCare, so no real change for him.  He will just get some younger patients who are able to get health insurance now, and not have to see them only in the emergency room.

Your family doctor probably does not tell you that he has increased costs associated with the Obama changes. I will name a few.

Mandated fines for failure to put in place compliance plans and staff training.
2 percent reduction in fees by 2016 4 percent by 2018 and higher for failure to use electronic records.
Many physicians feel they spend more time on documentation rules than with the patient.
50 percent of physicians who dropped their AMA membership stated it was because of AMA support of Obama care.
60 percent of physicians feel Obama care has had neg impact on care
One survey reported 80 percent physicians polled said they are thinking about
quitting.

Just because your physician is not discussing this with you does not mean all is well.

http://www.lifenews.com/2013....lations


http://www.doctorsandpatients.org/blog/47

http://dailycaller.com/2012....amacare


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, it is certainly true that they spent 3-4 months converting to all electronic records, and it has made the office much more efficient, plus it also complys with ObamaCare requirements of the future.

Looks like it could be a cost saving for them in the future, and really nice when one stops in the other clinic and your records are immediately available.

I am sure that there will be some who just can't/won't change, there always are when big changes occur.  

The nurse practitioners will step in and fill the needs of the patients, and most of the quitters will be specialists who didn't really want anything to do with preventive health care in the first place.  JMO

I hear plenty of whining from the Colorado Springs docs, but haven't found any problem with getting care when one of us needs an operation or knee replacement.  

Apparently they are waiting a little longer before quitting!


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, we work in it everyday. On the phone with doctors, Medicare, Medicaid and private providers, you are going to be in for a rude awakening. Obama will be safe in retirement and the egg on your face will be ooooh, an SOB!

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 12:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Oh, and what a joke, NP's will fill the void. I don't want to see an NP or a PA when I go to the doctor, I want to see the guy with 8-10 years med school. The price is the same. And all the older docs with the experience are getting canned.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I am still hearing a wide range of opinions across the medical professions, but anyone that has had much business experience knows that there are plenty of doctors that are not especially good at money management. What concerns me is that there are so many unnecessary people in the medical food chain. When a petty perfunctory paper pusher has all day, every day to pontificate online while making a living sending out medical bills, it looks like there is plenty of fat that can be trimmed from the system. When it comes to waste, some of the tea baggers are the worst offenders.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:27 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When all Drs are part of clinics and other professional groups, we can more easily go to Universal Care, and Single Payer.  Until then, some of us will long for the days of the rural Dr. caring for folks, and taking chickens and pigs for pay.  

If we just returned to that level of care, setting bones and treating fevers, but doing little to prolong life at the end, our healthcare cost woes would be solved.  


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ecocentric @ Mar. 31 2013, 1:17 pm)
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I am still hearing a wide range of opinions across the medical professions, but anyone that has had much business experience knows that there are plenty of doctors that are not especially good at money management. What concerns me is that there are so many unnecessary people in the medical food chain. When a petty perfunctory paper pusher has all day, every day to pontificate online while making a living sending out medical bills, it looks like there is plenty of fat that can be trimmed from the system. When it comes to waste, some of the tea baggers are the worst offenders.

Speaking of pontificating. As too fat being trimmed from the system, sure. Like CPA's are needed to negotiate the two foot tall stack known as the IRS code. Doctors higher specialists to collect what is legitimately due them, because they want/need to be doctors not experts on medical coding. So.........the beauracricy is too big to move, other than as a sloth which produces the need for specialists in all kinds of areas, and added expenses. Fix that!

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:43 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Just about the only thing that can be agreed on (I think) -- is that we don't know -- because Obamacare (and I use this term in a strictly neutral and not derogatory sense) really hasn't kicked in.

But yes, the potential for government / bureaucratic waste and mismanagement is there.  However, what concerns me more is the demand side -- people's expectations.  Ol zeke's post above -- to prolong life at the end -- can be enormously expensive depending on where we draw the line on what Obamacare "needs" to provide!  Lots more aging baby boomers in another 10-20 years...  They vote.  And politicians aren't real disciplined about writing blank checks -- deferring yet more debt to future generations -- so they get to keep their offices today...

But nothing above is inherently unsolvable.


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

O-care isn't the greatest thing in the world (it was a Republican idea from the 1990's after all), but at this point it is a done deal.  Employees have been losing bennies at an increasing rate for decades but employers have accelerated it recently due to a number of factors (including the ACA itself).  

The only future choices I can see is everyone gets a premium deduction off their taxes (i.e. large corporations do not have an edge in health care provision) or a single-payer system with an annual weigh-in for a cost break for improving health (an increasing common feature in many corporate health plans btw).


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:46 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And he wants to criticise doctors for not being very good money managers (and they aren't) when they did 8-10 years med school because all they wanted was to be a doctor. But oh no, they need an additional 2 years in business school, and two more in law school, and then a couple years to learn all the rules in order to know how to submit his bill, and keep out of jail for fraud. The blame is a top heavy bureaucracy. But we'll blame the lawyers, CPA's and Medical coders.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 1:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Mar. 31 2013, 1:43 pm)
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Just about the only thing that can be agreed on (I think) -- is that we don't know -- because Obamacare (and I use this term in a strictly neutral and not derogatory sense) really hasn't kicked in.

But yes, the potential for government / bureaucratic waste and mismanagement is there.  However, what concerns me more is the demand side -- people's expectations.  Ol zeke's post above -- to prolong life at the end -- can be enormously expensive depending on where we draw the line on what Obamacare "needs" to provide!  Lots more aging baby boomers in another 10-20 years...  They vote.  And politicians aren't real disciplined about writing blank checks -- deferring yet more debt to future generations -- so they get to keep their offices today...

But nothing above is inherently unsolvable.

See, this is what I'm trying to say. To the patients, "O-care hasn't really kicked in. But for the rest of us in the business, it has very much. But nobody wants to listen to that, or click the links to see what DOCTORS ARE SAYING!

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 2:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Misleadingly confusing "ObamaCare" (the ACA of 2009)  with Healthcare costs overall is factually wrong, about on the level of the "Death Panels" partisan chant.

Opposition to expanding access to healthcare for something like 35 million fellow Americans (largely with private funding, btw) is very misplaced. 35 million healthier fellow citizens will increase our national security as a healthy populace is more amenable to education when young, productive when in the work force and capable of higher performance when a member of our military. No doubt why Republicans used to be a champion of such efforts.

That shift away from patriotism is saddening. It would be far better, IMHO, if they were part of the solution rather than the mindless cut and pasting of opposition talking points that do nothing to address our national challenges. The endless whining over the Heritage Foundation's Romney endorsed, personal responsibility mandate, as they termed it, is a solid case in point.

Why they've given up on a healthy American citizenry, something whose source is the very Constitution itself, quite puzzles me.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare*, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

"promote the general Welfare" indeed.

No doubt why Founders themselves very rapidly established the first publicly funded hospitals and health service system, albeit of limited scope which was later expanded.  A system, btw, funded by mandatory fees.

"1798—John Adams, second president of the United States, signed into law the Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen."

1798, so the Constitution (1787) was fresh on everyone's mind I am confident.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 2:29 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 31 2013, 1:51 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Mar. 31 2013, 1:43 pm)
QUOTE
Just about the only thing that can be agreed on (I think) -- is that we don't know -- because Obamacare (and I use this term in a strictly neutral and not derogatory sense) really hasn't kicked in.

But yes, the potential for government / bureaucratic waste and mismanagement is there.  However, what concerns me more is the demand side -- people's expectations.  Ol zeke's post above -- to prolong life at the end -- can be enormously expensive depending on where we draw the line on what Obamacare "needs" to provide!  Lots more aging baby boomers in another 10-20 years...  They vote.  And politicians aren't real disciplined about writing blank checks -- deferring yet more debt to future generations -- so they get to keep their offices today...

But nothing above is inherently unsolvable.

See, this is what I'm trying to say. To the patients, "O-care hasn't really kicked in. But for the rest of us in the business, it has very much. But nobody wants to listen to that, or click the links to see what DOCTORS ARE SAYING!

The medical system is sucking disproportionately large sums of cash out of the American economy. Doctors are rewarded in America like nowhere else on earth. I think those who whine and complain should ask themselves why they became doctors in the first place.

I have a huge amount of respect for the vast majority in the medical profession, but poor or even struggling they are not.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 2:38 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 31 2013, 10:23 am)
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ACA requirements are crushing doctors. (Btw, 2014 has already arrived for doctors. I own a medical billing company and work with them daily, there's already several deadlines they have had to meet in the last 16 months) the result is that doctors are closing up shop and going to work for the hospitals, for less money, but the hospitals deal with the HASSLES. This is producing fewer doctors offices and clinics where people can get quick quality healthcare. In the end quality and accessibility WILL BE DIMINISHED by ACA, and cost will increase. But run to Obama's defense like the good partisan that you are.

Don't give me your anecdotal BS stories. I mean really. Given your record here(you just
recently copied and pasted something from a message board and didn't even bother sourcing
it thus trying to give the impression it was yours) there is no way I would believe ANYTHING
you say. As for this notion that somehow its partisan to note that the ACA has not been
fully implemented and that health care costs have been going up for decades and thus its
illogical to say or imply that the increase in health care costs is a result of the ACA is
something I would expect from a dishonest propagandist like yourself Monte. Its especially absurd
to label me a partisan here given that the ACA was built on Republican ideas on healthcare.
How can defending a bill that is inherently bipartisan be partisan? you fool


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:03 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Haha, Dennis hates the partisan label. But many here have pinned it on you, not just me. Own it boy!

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:05 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Healthcare premiums have been increasing significantly every year for the past couple of decades or longer, many of those years have seen double-digit increases.  This was all long before anyone knew the name Barack Obama.  It's no surprise that this trend will continue.  Now the healthcare industry finally has someone they can blame for their unsustainable price increases.  Anyone who now chooses to blame increased costs on the ACA is also choosing to ignore history.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:17 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Montecresto said
QUOTE

Haha, Dennis hates the partisan label. But many here have pinned it on you, not just me. Own it boy!


Only by those that didn't know what the term "partisan" means.

Explain how my responses in regard to the ACA here is partisan?

Especially explain how defending a bill that is bipartisan makes one partisan?


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hbfa, And your choosing to ignore facts. Don't click the links. Doctors who have been in private practice are being bought up by the hospitals, newly named outpatient clinics. Whereas the doctor use to bill Medicaid $70.00 for a visit, in the new outpatient clinic, they are aloud to bill $50.00. Governments saving $20.00  a visit right. Wait, the hospital now bills for the same visit under their umbrella, for the full $70.00. A double billing allowed by Medicaid and an increase in cost of $50.00 a visit. Just ONE example. Btw, Medicaid has 2,000 manuals for coding, check their website. A doctors suppose to learn all that, ha. When would he get to be a doctor.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:32 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 31 2013, 3:20 pm)
QUOTE
Hbfa, And your choosing to ignore facts. Don't click the links. Doctors who have been in private practice are being bought up by the hospitals, newly named outpatient clinics. Whereas the doctor use to bill Medicaid $70.00 for a visit, in the new outpatient clinic, they are aloud to bill $50.00. Governments saving $20.00  a visit right. Wait, the hospital now bills for the same visit under their umbrella, for the full $70.00. A double billing allowed by Medicaid and an increase in cost of $50.00 a visit. Just ONE example. Btw, Medicaid has 2,000 manuals for coding, check their website. A doctors suppose to learn all that, ha. When would he get to be a doctor.

what facts have you given here?

here are the two sources you have used in this thread

http://www.lifenews.com/2013....lations


http://dailycaller.com/2012....amacare

about as partisan as you can get


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 31 2013, 12:20 pm)
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Hbfa, And your choosing to ignore facts. Don't click the links. Doctors who have been in private practice are being bought up by the hospitals, newly named outpatient clinics. Whereas the doctor use to bill Medicaid $70.00 for a visit, in the new outpatient clinic, they are aloud to bill $50.00. Governments saving $20.00  a visit right. Wait, the hospital now bills for the same visit under their umbrella, for the full $70.00. A double billing allowed by Medicaid and an increase in cost of $50.00 a visit. Just ONE example. Btw, Medicaid has 2,000 manuals for coding, check their website. A doctors suppose to learn all that, ha. When would he get to be a doctor.

You make a great argument for true socialized medicine Montecresto.

If your point is that the ACA doesn't go far enough, then I would agree with you.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:40 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Mar. 31 2013, 12:30 pm)
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(wwwest @ Mar. 31 2013, 12:14 pm)
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My family doc seems to be doing fine, still very busy and still taking care of us old folks.

But then, a majority of his patients have been on Medicare before ObamaCare, so no real change for him.  He will just get some younger patients who are able to get health insurance now, and not have to see them only in the emergency room.


http://www.doctorsandpatients.org/blog/47

counter to that

http://www.newrepublic.com/blog....amacare


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"For the first time since 1981, when it dubbed sex-change operations "experimental," Medicare has opened the door to covering transexual operations, adding to the growing list of operations that would be allowed under Obamacare."

Here ya go, this is great! Steve can be Eve and Jane can be Jack! No prob, the government will pay the bill. How about some food stamps and welfare to go along with your new private parts? :D  

http://washingtonexaminer.com/in-shif....2525782


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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 31 2013, 3:44 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

^^ LOL!!


sounds like this stupid tiresome right-wing talking point has already been debunked

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o....bill-li


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