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Topic: Mexican drug cartel getting stronger inside US< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:25 pm  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

CHICAGO: Mexican drug cartels whose operatives once rarely ventured beyond the U.S. border are dispatching some of their most trusted agents to live and work deep inside the United States - an emboldened presence that experts believe is meant to tighten their grip on the world's most lucrative narcotics market and maximize profits.

If left unchecked, authorities say, the cartels' move into the American interior could render the syndicates harder than ever to dislodge and pave the way for them to expand into other criminal enterprises such as prostitution, kidnapping-and-extortion rackets and money laundering.



Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News....Fl07YVi
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)


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Killing one person is murder, killing a 100,000 is foreign policy
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:26 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So?
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So, if left unchecked......................

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:51 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

HSF is just rattling your cage, Monte.   :;):

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:53 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

They say they like ya when they tease ya, probably not true this time though, you think. :)

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 6:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Apr. 01 2013, 6:26 pm)
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So?

+1


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 7:20 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not an expert in the drug 'industry' -- but I recall a time reading about how Mexico was initially unconcerned with drugs coming in from Colombia -- as almost all of them were destined for El Norte anyway.  Well, events proved them wrong -- as the conduit became a full-fledged business in its own right -- turf wars and all.

Per Wiki (I know, I know... but good enough for general reading):

"Although Mexican drug cartels, or drug trafficking organizations, have existed for several decades, they have become more powerful since the demise of Colombia's Cali and Medellín cartels in the 1990s. Mexican drug cartels now dominate the wholesale illicit drug market by controlling 90% of the drugs that enter the United States."

It looks like Mexican cartels now want a piece of the "giant retail market" in El Norte as well.  They already control the wholesale market -- but there are huge mark up's (thus profits) in retail for the taking!

This will very likely lead to conflicts in the US as channels and territories are fought over and redrawn.  The money involved will be astronomical -- and politicians and police buying isn't unheard of in our country either.  Not saying the sky will surely fall -- but I wouldn't shrug it off.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 7:41 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I will say this, the war in the northeast of Mexico between the Gulf Cartel and their former
armed wing "Los Zetas" is getting mind boggling brutal. I mean it is not enough for these
folks just to kill their opposition, They must kill them in the most grotesque and demented
fashion. This stuff goes on throughout the country but that northeast part of Mexico
in particular is really going insane.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 7:45 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I wonder when the liberals will understand that the violence in this country is because of the 40 year long war on drugs and not because of law abiding citizens with guns? Its also the main reason most law abiding citizens need guns for defense. End the war on drugs and we could expect at least a 50% decrease in the murder rate.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 7:49 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 01 2013, 4:41 pm)
QUOTE
I will say this, the war in the northeast of Mexico between the Gulf Cartel and their former
armed wing "Los Zetas" is getting mind boggling brutal. I mean it is not enough for these
folks just to kill their opposition, They must kill them in the most grotesque and demented
fashion. This stuff goes on throughout the country but that northeast part of Mexico
in particular is really going insane.

Indeed, Dennis.  And coming to the US is likely a critical part of every cartel's business expansion plan -- each realizing they cannot lose to their competitors and still survive.  The brutality -- lining severed heads over highway overpasses and such -- may well bring crimes here at home to new levels.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:00 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(rorak @ Apr. 01 2013, 7:45 pm)
QUOTE
I wonder when the liberals will understand that the violence in this country is because of the 40 year long war on drugs and not because of law abiding citizens with guns? Its also the main reason most law abiding citizens need guns for defense. End the war on drugs and we could expect at least a 50% decrease in the murder rate.

So you have assume four things

Assumption #1. That liberals have NOT acknowledged drug related violence is a result of
the war on drugs(at least in part)

Assumption #2. That conservatives have acknowledged it which isn't necessarily true at all
(how many conservatives are pushing for legalization of drugs?)

Assumption #3. that the belief that the war on drugs is failure and the need for some level
of gun regulation are mutually exclusive.  There are many things that contribute to violence
as a result of the drug trade not just one.

Assumption #4. That the gun violence is from specifically "law abiding citizens with guns"

I defy you to find one liberal that has blamed gun violence on "law abiding citizens with guns"


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Ben2World @ Apr. 01 2013, 3:51 pm)
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HSF is just rattling your cage, Monte.   :;):

Just curious as to what the original poster's thoughts might be since they bothered to post the cut and paste and the link.

Going to that effort with NO thoughts on the matter at hand? Would be curious indeed.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:06 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 01 2013, 7:41 pm)
QUOTE
I will say this, the war in the northeast of Mexico between the Gulf Cartel and their former
armed wing "Los Zetas" is getting mind boggling brutal. I mean it is not enough for these
folks just to kill their opposition, They must kill them in the most grotesque and demented
fashion. This stuff goes on throughout the country but that northeast part of Mexico
in particular is really going insane.

And so you think that would be just fine here, as per post 6!

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:07 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Both Monte and I interpreted your laconic response as "so -- what's the big deal".

But you meant, "so -- what's your view about it".


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:10 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(High_Sierra_Fan @ Apr. 01 2013, 8:01 pm)
QUOTE

(Ben2World @ Apr. 01 2013, 3:51 pm)
QUOTE
HSF is just rattling your cage, Monte.   :;):

Just curious as to what the original poster's thoughts might be since they bothered to post the cut and paste and the link.

Going to that effort with NO thoughts on the matter at hand? Would be curious indeed.

It never dawned on me that anybody would consider this development positive, that it wouldn't possibly be made into a partisan issue, and that therefore, it stood on its own as BAD. But lo and behold, both assumptions wrong.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Dennis every liberal thinks law abiding citizens should be punished because of the actions of a very few. I make no assumptions.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:37 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I don't think you know what assumption means.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 8:58 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Nice assumption on your part.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 11:08 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Montecresto @ Apr. 01 2013, 8:06 pm)
QUOTE

(Dennis The Menace @ Apr. 01 2013, 7:41 pm)
QUOTE
I will say this, the war in the northeast of Mexico between the Gulf Cartel and their former
armed wing "Los Zetas" is getting mind boggling brutal. I mean it is not enough for these
folks just to kill their opposition, They must kill them in the most grotesque and demented
fashion. This stuff goes on throughout the country but that northeast part of Mexico
in particular is really going insane.

And so you think that would be just fine here, as per post 6!

^^ So Monte lies again

what an absurd lie but typical of you


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 11:11 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(rorak @ Apr. 01 2013, 8:13 pm)
QUOTE
Dennis every liberal thinks law abiding citizens should be punished because of the actions of a very few. I make no assumptions.

are you just trolling are you really this stupid?


Oh and that isn't what you said

You said I wonder when the liberals will understand that the violence in this country is because of
the 40 year long war on drugs and not because of law abiding citizens with guns
and by that you
saying that liberals blame "law abiding citizens" for the violence. No liberal has blamed "law abiding
citizens" for violence


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 01 2013, 11:13 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(rorak @ Apr. 01 2013, 8:58 pm)
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Nice assumption on your part.

^^ self-awareness fail(after making an absolutely ridiculous assumption about liberals)


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 02 2013, 4:32 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(rorak @ Apr. 01 2013, 5:45 pm)
QUOTE
I wonder when the liberals will understand that the violence in this country is because of the 40 year long war on drugs and not because of law abiding citizens with guns? Its also the main reason most law abiding citizens need guns for defense. End the war on drugs and we could expect at least a 50% decrease in the murder rate.

Wow - I usually try and be a little more nuanced in any criticism, but that is the dumbest take on this situation I have ever heard. We have violence in our country for numerous reasons and each of them must be looked at individually to understand how to best tackle that particular problem. The article never even mentioned violence happening in association with cartel members being in the U.S., at least not in refernce to violence against "law abiding citizens" with or without guns. Here is a couple quotes from the article, in case you didn't actually read it:

QUOTE
People who live on the tree-lined street where authorities seized more than 2,400 pounds of marijuana and more than $1 million in cash were shocked to learn their low-key neighbors were accused of working for one of Mexico's most violent drug syndicates, Pearson said.

and
QUOTE
So far, cartels don't appear to be directly responsible for large numbers of slayings in the United States, though the Texas Department of Public Safety reported 22 killings and five kidnappings in Texas at the hands of Mexican cartels from 2010 through mid- 2011.

and
QUOTE
In Chicago, the police commander who oversees narcotics investigations, James O'Grady, said street-gang disputes over turf account for most of the city's uptick in murders last year, when slayings topped 500 for the first time since 2008. Although the cartels aren't dictating the territorial wars, they are the source of drugs.


The drug problem and any violence associated with it has very little to do with the amount of guns in the hands of law abiding citizens and has everything to do with a black market drug that has a demand, ala alcohol/prohibition. I am pretty sure we had looser gun laws during prohibition times, yet we had still had criminal violence associated with it.

Sounds like someone (Rorark) has a little gun related tunnel vision...
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 02 2013, 8:44 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

When shallow minded, uniformed people assume that anyone that disagrees is the source of the problems, the enemy if you will, then there is little hope of solving the real problems that we face.

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(Ecocentric @ Apr. 02 2013, 6:44 am)
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When shallow minded, uniformed people assume that anyone that disagrees is the source of the problems, the enemy if you will, then there is little hope of solving the real problems that we face.

Ain't that the truth...sadly.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 02 2013, 7:01 pm Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

If you only understood what I said and not just assumed that you did. Liberals want to blame guns for violence but guns aren't violent, its the person holding it that can be the problem. The war on drugs is the main root of the problem, it destroys family's, erodes trust in the government, allows corruption, and completely undermines freedom. Poverty and poor parenting are the other problems we have to deal with if we want safety and security.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 10:02 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I agree that we should be concerned.  Is it likely to take on the gruesomeness going on in NE Mexico?  I can't answer that, but surely LEO's in charge of gang activity, money laundering, drug enforcement, etc. ought to pay closer attention to these connections on our side of the border.

Personally, I was doing some traveling for work in El Paso and the surrounding area, inspecting some affordable housing a couple years ago, and one of the complexes I visited was in a very somber mood.  It turns out that a child of 15, was with some friends somewhat near the border (though not literally walking along the fence in El Paso) and was suspected to have been killed for walking up on some cartel members.  Of course this is just what I heard, and I didn't ask for many more details.  But just a reminder that cartel violence is already here.


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 03 2013, 10:17 am Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hope your not going to have to move there.

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(Montecresto @ Apr. 03 2013, 10:17 am)
QUOTE
Hope your not going to have to move there.

Nope.  I'm a New Englander through-and-through.   :D

Actually, I enjoyed my time in El Paso.  It's a nice enough place, just a little too close to Juarez for comfort.


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(rorak @ Apr. 02 2013, 5:01 pm)
QUOTE
If you only understood what I said and not just assumed that you did. Liberals want to blame guns for violence but guns aren't violent, its the person holding it that can be the problem. The war on drugs is the main root of the problem, it destroys family's, erodes trust in the government, allows corruption, and completely undermines freedom. Poverty and poor parenting are the other problems we have to deal with if we want safety and security.

Perhaps you should be more specific in what you are trying to relay and it would make it easier for everyone else to understand. Generally I don't think/communicate using simplistic generalizations such as "Liberls think X" or "Conservatives think Y", but it's kind of hard not to given your comments.

QUOTE
I wonder when the liberals will understand that the violence in this country is because of the 40 year long war on drugs and not because of law abiding citizens with guns?


1. Liberals have not been the primary supporters of the "war on drugs". That is not to say there are not liberals/democrats who have, but if you want to make it about Team Conservative vs Team Liberal, it is not even close in support for the "war on drugs".
2. Liberals generally do not think violence happens because of law abiding citizens with guns. Many liberals seek to better understand the correlational relationship between guns and violence and to take action accordingly. There are cerainly times when that action is misguided, IMO.

Making a connection between liberal support for the war on drugs along with liberals thinking that violence is caused by law abiding citizens with guns and in turn that represents 50% of the violence in our country is rediculous.

QUOTE
Dennis every liberal thinks law abiding citizens should be punished because of the actions of a very few. I make no assumptions.


Do you honestly not see the humor in what you wrote here that others were subtely trying to point out?

QUOTE
The war on drugs is the main root of the problem

If you would elaborate just a little on what you mean by this, it would make it easier to understand what you think. What does this mean to you? Are you talking about changing the enforcement levels/approaches, legalization, increasing support systems for addicts, etc., or all the above?

My main point is that bringing up gun legislation in direct connection with drugs and associated problems and asserting that liberals were responsible for the war on drugs makes zero sense.

If your point is that we should legalize most/all drugs and allocate X% of sales tax dollars generated to help fund addiction support and that by doing so it would help alleviate some violence in our country, then we agree.

What gun legislation has to do with that, I have no idea???
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